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tabatha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-30-10 01:08 PM
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Unplugged: Life off the grid
The salesman at the solar power shop told me: "You have no idea how stupid batteries are." That comment made me wonder about his intelligence, so it took me some time to realise the canny wisdom of this apparently dim statement.

The intelligence of batteries has been one of the surprising, not to mention irritating, things about living without Eskom for the past year.

My wife and I have been living in a fairly isolated spot in the Karoo where it is not economically viable to bring in an Eskom electricity line.

Consequently, we jumped into the organic power lifestyle with the kind of naïveté reserved for those who believe problems will sort themselves out, until they don't. The important point is that we did not consciously decide to live the sustainable lifestyle on principle. We are not tree-huggers.  This was summed up by my wife, Jennifer, who said repeatedly -- and pointedly -- "I'm fine about living in the desert but I'm not doing without my food processor."

With that non-negotiable ringing in my ears, I set about designing an electrical system that would not require any compromises, especially on the food processor front. In other words, I cast about frantically on Google.

http://www.mg.co.za/article/2010-12-23-unplugged-life-off-the-grid
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NBachers Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-30-10 01:33 PM
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1. Interesting article - thanks for posting
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kristopher Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-30-10 01:54 PM
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2. related information
Edited on Thu Dec-30-10 01:56 PM by kristopher
For BYD, Electric Vehicles Are Just the Start

By John Gartner at Matter Network

Chinese company BYD will bring its electric and plug-in vehicles to North America in 2011 as one part of a threefold strategy for exporting technology. BYD's first plug-in car, the F3DM, has arrived in California where it will be used in a pilot project by the Los Angeles Housing Authority. The F3DM has 40-60 miles of electric range and 300 miles of gasoline range, and in a unique feature, drivers can specify whether the gas engine assists the electric motor.

The company, in which billionaire Warren Buffett is a prominent investor, has had delays in bringing its EVs to the U.S. , with the all-electric E6 now not arriving until 2011. Not stopping at light duty vehicles, BYD is also bringing the K9 electric bus, which can travel up to 300 kilometers on a charge, to the U.S. in 2011. BYD has seen very slow sales of its EVs in China, and has had to scale back its ambitious plans for sales and new vehicle launches.

But for BYD, EVs are only part of the plan. The company has been a significant player in batteries and wants to simultaneously roll out energy storage and renewable power. The company is planning to offer the same lithium-ion batteries that power its vehicles to store solar power. The energy storage market is in its infancy, and will grow rapidly throughout the decade. Pike Research projects that lithium ion battery sales for grid applications will be $64 million in 2011 in North America, and grow to $3.1 billion by 2015...


http://www.reuters.com/article/idUS401030644520101223


And

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Alameda Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-30-10 02:00 PM
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3. isn't the mining of lithium a problem?
I lived most my life in NYC where I only had a 15 amp fuse to run things in my apartment. I only used mechanical kitchen devices. They work very well, a bit hard to find now, but those old mechanical Moulis are great at grating, slicing and otherwise processing things, plus you get some exercise too. I even had a treadle sewing machine, in fact still do.

My point, we can use a lot less electricity than we think we need.
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kristopher Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-30-10 02:32 PM
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6. No, it isn't.
Edited on Thu Dec-30-10 02:38 PM by kristopher
We do need more focus on conservation and energy efficiency, though. Part of the problem is that the economics of centralized thermal generation *demand* that those who spend the billions for those plants engage in efforts to increase consumption. When they build a large new plant, it is in response to past AND anticipated increases in demand. Add to that the fact that many regulated utilities are still on a "cost plus" system of profits where they are allowed about 6% profit on their obligations and expenses. This means the only way for them to increase profits is to increase the amount they spend. That, in turn, means that regulated utilities under this type of control love to plan large projects. Then, to pay for those projects they work actively to increase demand. This incredible cycle is a well known perverse incentive built into the present system of coal/nuclear generation that policy wonks are trying hard to figure out a viable solution for.

The best answer is to move away from total dependence on centralized generation and switch to distributed generation where possible.

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femrap Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-30-10 02:08 PM
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4. K and R
learned a lot. thx.
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Gregorian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-30-10 02:15 PM
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5. You don't even need a 25kW generator.
I lived off of a 7.5kW generator for two years recently. 25kW is HUGE. That's a gallon an hour kind of generation.

I'm trying to get off the grid, but batteries are the bottleneck. In fact, energy storage is one of the big problems we face in trying to get away from internal combustion engines. We are not quite there yet. We like spending our research money on wars for some reason.

So imagine millions of people each with 20 lead acid batteries. And 20 isn't going to do much of anything. That's why he has the generator.

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bvar22 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-30-10 02:38 PM
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7. Interesting article.
My wife & I lived on a Solar Powered Houseboat in the Mississippi River in Minnesota for several years,
and will testify to some of the observations made by the author of this article.

We absolutely LOVED the silent, non-polluting, free generation of POWER from the Solar Panels,
but the downsides are many.
The worst downside was the 12 large lead/acid batteries along the keel.
These are extremely toxic, and have a relatively short life (3-5 years).
Like the article mentioned, they also demand constant monitoring.
There are controllers available, but they also require monitoring.
When our batteries were FULL, we dumped the load into things like an electric hot-water heater.

WE have since moved to a very rural area in West/Central Arkansas,
and are living a sustainably as possible. We won't be bringing a TON of Lead/Acid batteries
on to our property, and our Rural Electric Co-Op has no provisions for selling power back to the system.
Until they do, or unless a BIG breakthrough is made in electric storage, we won't be investing in Wind/Solar Panels.

We are doing many things to reduce our consumption.

We will be adding Solar Hot Water next Spring.

Living totally on Solar Power was a learning experience.
We became power misers with a constant consciousness of consumption, and how to reduce it.
The irony is that if everyone lived as if they were on Solar Power,
we wouldn't need Solar Power.
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Alameda Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-30-10 03:13 PM
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8. other options for solar power
I love this company. http://solarivy.com/

There are some great innovations going on in the alternative energy arena now. Design Boom had this issue
http://www.designboom.com/weblog/cat/16/view/5308/wind-power-technology.html There are some great ideas here.
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roody Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-30-10 08:28 PM
Response to Original message
9. The most simple solar power is a grid-tie system.
No batteries.
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