If you're thinking about buying an electric car

[pscot]

here's something to think about:

Being car-bound in sub-freezing weather for six hours can make a guy think. I counted my blessings. The situation could have been worse, I realized: My fellow commuters and I could have been trying to make it home in electric cars.....

If you live in an area where the winters get extremely cold an all-electric vehicle will have to be garaged and equipped with some kind of plug-in battery warmer for it to be effective in the coldest months of the year. Keep these thoughts in mind if you're planning an electric car purchase; we don't want you finding out the range of your car has been halved when it's five below zero and you're fifteen miles from home."

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2011/01/27/AR2011012706170.html?nav=hcmoduletmv

[dmallind]

1. EVs turn off primary power when stuck

Secondary batteries provide heat. I have a sneaking suspicion the batteries have been tested to be fubctional in the temperatures they will encounter. If you are stuck for six hours what makes it impossible for you to run out of gas?

[DCKit]

2. "...what makes it impossible for you to run out of gas?" Or die from CO poisoning?

It's all just noise, anymore.

[TheWraith]

3. This is very misleading.

Yes, cold weather affects battery capacity. However, it's grossly inaccurate to say that it "halves" the range. In fact, Lithium Ion batteries--which drive most modern electric and hybrid vehicles--perform quite well in cold weather down to zero degrees. And even at -20 degrees Fahrenheit, discharge time only decreases by about a fifth. A little wise planning and a good safety margin--something you should have even in a liquid fueled vehicle--will see you through fine.

Meanwhile, compare the positives--electric driven vehicles don't suffer the same problems ICE vehicles do with regard to oil temperature affecting performance, startup issues, or the fuel jellying problems that diesel vehicles have in cold weather.

[NickB79]

8. I was under the impression that the heater was the biggest problem with EV's in winter

Running the defrost and/or heater can be a large draw on the batteries. So that might account for the claim of halving the range, if you're devoting charge to heating air rather than to spinning the wheels.

[Eagle_Eye]

13. Another positive aspect of an all electric vehicle concerns fuel

Extreme cold can cause the E85 gasoline used by internal combustion engines to stratify into alcohol and octane in the fuel tank causing engine failure.

Batteries do not have the problem of fuel stratification like Ethanol blends do.

[jwirr]

4. Very good point. Some of our family drive through rural areas to get

home and if the became stranded in snow what happens then? However, if you do not have a tank full of gas in a regular vehicle it is just as dangerous to be stranded in sub-freezing weather.

[meow mix]

5. plowing through deep snow in my 4x4 consumes more energy in general

regardless of what the source is. i learned not to try and go to town on a 1/4 tank lol just sayin

[txlibdem]

6. Fear/Uncertainty/DOUBT --just more FUD from the oil lobby

Who cares what this writer thinks? And as for the battery needing to be plugged in? I've lived where GASOLINE cars needed to be plugged in all night lest the oil freeze in the pan.

I don't fall for fear tactics that are designed to sound so innocent and reasonable yet insidiously intended to keep me addicted to the oil companies poison. When I get my electric car I'll post about all the poor SOBs walking along the road with gas cans in hand, I'll never have to worry about that again --my gas station will be inside my garage.

[pscot]

9. Anyone who lives in the upper midwest

is likely to care. We'd all like electric vehicles to be the big solution, but they have to work in the real world. Just sayin'.

[txlibdem]

11. Here's the most honest person explaining why so many auto writers bad mouth electric cars

edited for a formatting Ooops.

What scares me is that I have absolutely no idea how these machines operate. Before starting work as an auto journalist I spent years working for car dealership service departments just with the sole intent of learning the mechanics of automobiles. And now they want to change all that? I am getting too old for another career change.

http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/2546981/a_future_full_of_electric_cars_do_we.html?cat=27

Now to those who live in Northern Climes. I agree that extreme cold will cause trouble for electric vehicles. Just like the cold causes trouble for gasoline vehicles in those parts of the country. That's why they make oil heaters: your engine block can freeze and crack so they make engine block heaters that are kept plugged in all night. In Canada and Sweden, the public parking spots also have electrical cords on them for the sole purpose of plugging in the engine block heaters --gasoline vehicles can easily become damaged by that level of cold. The cheap lead acid starter batteries in gasoline cars today just cannot handle the cold: you need to buy an expensive battery made specifically to handle the cold.

The Nissan Leaf has no thermal management for its batteries so I would not recommend that vehicle for someone in North Dakota, or "the U.P." where it gets colder than a witches... well it gets mighty cold.

The Ford Focus EV, however, has a liquid thermal management system for its battery pack. Since you have to plug in your regular gasoline car overnight, do you care that you have to plug in your electric car as well? And when the vehicle is moving it keeps the batteries well inside their optimum temperature range as well. So I suggest you look at either a Chevy Volt or a Ford Focus EV.

[txlibdem]

15. Update: the Leaf will have a cold weather package available as an option

But it will not be available for the initial shipments of the Leaf according to every article I could find on the subject. And no price info yet either.
http://gas2.org/2010/09/23/nissan-leafs-mysterious-cold-weather-package/

The cool thing about electric cars is that the technology is evolving so rapidly, but then you run into things such as this where you get out onto the very edge of new developments. If I lived up north, I'd wait a little while to see how this all plays out. By the time the Ford Focus EV hits the streets later on this year there will be more info on the Leaf's cold weather package so you can make an informed comparison.

[wtmusic]

7. How many times has this idiot run out of gas?

The so-called "range-anxiety" meme never ceases to amaze me. Before you travel you check what's in the "tank" - just like an internal-combustion car. No problem.

Next: if you drive uphill in a snowstorm with the A/C, lights, and heater on your range may be less than advertised...

[txlibdem]

10. And now for the truth from allcarselectric.com

I guess you never know something is a myth until you try to prove it, right? This WAPO article restates the myth that electric cars would be downright dangerous for you in seriously cold weather. Gosh, that sounds scary.

So the good folks over at allcarselectric.com decided to do a little homage to The Myth Busters TV show and test that theory. In October, they had been fortunate enough to be able to borrow a Tesla Roadster for a test drive. What fun and I'm sure they had a blast driving the sexiest vehicle on the road. In November, during what they describe as "unseasonably cold" weather, they had another chance to get the Tesla for a day and (of course) they said yes. It just happened to be the exact vehicle they had before so they decided to do a little test of the cold weather performance.

Would the battery drain to zero? Would the electrically heated seats and electric cabin heat sap the vehicle range? Would they die in the cold, sitting in their electric vehicle in a scene reminiscent of The Day After Tomorrow?

We’d planned to film our frigid fun, but it turned out our camera equipment just couldn’t handle the cold and switched off as soon as it was exposed to the extreme windchill. No such problems for the car, however, which kept on providing heat, power and entertainment for a whole weekend.
In total we used just over 140 kilowatt-hours of power over the weekend, resulting in a massive 450 miles of snow-filled fun.
We struggled to find a difference in performance, range or energy consumption between our cold-weekend and our mid-Fall test-drive. Whatever we threw at it, the 2010 Tesla Roadster Sport 2.5 kept going.
Our only problem? A frozen trunk mechanism after the overnight temperature dipped below 16 °F which required a few hours of driving to thaw out.

Electric Cars Can’t Handle Cold Weather? Myth Busted - All Cars Electric http://www.allcarselectric.com/blog/1052024_electric-cars-cant-handle-cold-weather-myth-busted

Go read their article at the link above. You'll be laughing at the childish washington post attempt to spread fear about electric cars:
"With the temperature below 27 °F for the entire trip and temperatures dropping to an indicated 20 °F while driving through the iconic Cheddar Gorge, our test car didn’t put a foot wrong, climbing up the 1,000 feet twisty road with ease."

Nice try, Wahsington Post. You proved your lack of journalistic integrity again!

[NNadir]

14. Mythbusters is definitely one of the best shows on TV for children, young people and adults.

Recently the President of the United States appeared on the show, talking about the Archimedes/Mirror/Weapons system myth.

I have no use for cars, personally, and believe they should all be phased out as a primary source of transportation.

That said, I think this would be an excellent topic for that show, excellent, excellent, excellent.

[Ready4Change]

16. Should compare it with the Lotus Elise.

Very similar cars in many ways. Much of the work on the Tesla was sourced to Lotus. Both are similar sized, carry 2 people, and the Tesla aspires to sporting performance. Price wise, neither is what I'd call affordable (although I consider the Elise to be closer to a bargain as far as what it is intended to be.)

Frankly, I'm surprised that I haven't seen a direct magazine comparison between the two, although I suspect the Tesla wouldn't fare well in the end.

[Nihil]

19. Good post - thanks for that!

I'm not looking for an electric car in the near future
but am glad to see the FUD exploded.
:toast:

[Kennah]

12. Here are the numbers Nissan has published about the Leaf

http://www.nissanusa.com/leaf-electric-car/index#/leaf-electric-car/range-disclaimer/index

Winter, urban stop-and-go, traffic jam: 62 miles
Speed: Average 15 mph
Temperature: 14 degrees
Climate control: On
Though the average speed is only 15 mph with stop-and-go traffic, the 14-degree temperature means the heater is doing a lot of work so you spend considerable time and energy heating your car rather than moving forward. Despite these conditions, it would still take more than 4 hours to run out of charge!

[eppur_se_muova]

17. The mythbusting needs a K&R, not the OP ... nt

[txlibdem]

18. Thank you

:hi: