Number 1 and 3 Reactors likely breached

[ReturnoftheDjedi]

Challenge to remove water from reactors

Tokyo Electric Power Company is considering ways to remove water from the quake-hit nuclear plant where three workers have been exposed to high levels of radiation.

The workers waded into water that contained 10,000 times the radiation of normal levels. This took place in the basement of the turbine building of the Number 3 reactor of the Fukushima Daiichi Nuclear Power Plant on Thursday. They were working to install power cables.

After the incident, TEPCO examined the reactors and found that not only Number 3, but also the Number one reactor has highly radiated water in its basement.

TEPCO says the fuel rods inside reactors may be breached, causing radioactive material to leak.

TEPCO is working to remove the water inside the reactor buildings. This operation remains a challenge particularly for reactor Number One. The equipment used to remove radioactive elements in the water of this reactor has been damaged, however the firm is continuing its efforts.

TEPCO says it needs to remove the contaminated water as quickly as possible to resume efforts to restore external power to the reactors, in order to restart cooling systems.
Saturday, March 26, 2011 08:47 +0900 (JST)

http://www3.nhk.or.jp/daily/english/26_07.html

Are they really worried about getting water out?
The reactors are cracked.
More water will just leak out.

[caraher]

1. Your last quoted sentence explains their interest in removing water

"TEPCO says it needs to remove the contaminated water as quickly as possible to resume efforts to restore external power to the reactors, in order to restart cooling systems."

The electricians hospitalized with radiation burns were working with their feet in water (that turned out more radioactive than expected) trying to restore power. The urgency is that restored cooling minimizes the chances of a total meltdown; but cooling cannot be restored without first making the area safe enough for the connection work to be completed.

So no, they can't just wait around for water to dribble out.

[ReturnoftheDjedi]

2. why put people at risk to restore power to pumps that are damaged?

[Yo_Mama]

5. Because to lower emissions

They need to keep those reactors cooled.

The makeshifts they are using now are very ineffective at cooling. The pumps may not work, but they can be replaced if necessary unless it's literally too hot to work.

The Daiichi plant is too close to Tokyo to just sit around doing the minimum and let time do most of it.

My guess (and it's not well-informed) is that the water is coming from around the seals and pipe fittings. They weren't designed for these conditions and they weren't designed for seawater. It would not be surprising if there were some leaks, especially after such a massive quake.

I'm also just guessing this because I have been watching all the NISA releases, and they don't try to raise water levels inside the reactor vessels (except for 2, where they did a bit). It seems like they are trying to stay in steady state (with little info) until they can cool more effectively with the pumps, which would be able to circulate much, much larger volumes of water at higher pressures.

The best places for hard info:
NISA
http://www.nisa.meti.go.jp/english/
TEPCO
http://www.tepco.co.jp/en/press/corp-com/release/index-e.html
JAIF
http://www.jaif.or.jp/english/

[jberryhill]

4. Nobody's got a pair of waterproof lead-lined boots?

There are even ordinary contractors in New York City who specialize in what I understand to be concrete shoes.

[thereismore]

3. No.1 now?! I thought that one was not as problematic. Damn. nt

[Yo_Mama]

6. 2 is unquestionably breached

Very large quantities of Iodine 134 found in the basement water.

Iodine 134 has a half life of under an hour. Even on Japanese TV now they are admitting that not only is there a containment breach, but it must be a large on on 2, and there must be active fission occurring.

So Tokyo residents, just grab your ass with both hands and hold on tight!

Sorry, adding links:
Kyodo News
http://english.kyodonews.jp/
NHK
http://www3.nhk.or.jp/nhkworld/index.html

[SpoonFed]

8. active fission!

impossible. I was told many times on here in the past two weeks that that is impossible, the reactors were SCRAMed at the time of the earthquake and that they are just cooling off.

These are just lies, all lies of the anti-nuke irrational polly annes!

yup.

[ReturnoftheDjedi]

12. Reactor 2 is actively creating new radiation. What can they do to stop it??

It is obviously breached (as they suspected since the hydrogen explosion)

This is basically a radiation factory with no sign of stopping or even slowing down.

[CRH]

7. So now it appears there are three reactors breached, ...

Which raises the question, were they breached in the explosions, or did the initial earthquake cause breaches that later caused the explosions? This is important because up until now it has been assumed the explosions were from the lack of electricity causing a coolant circulation failure. What if the design did not withstand the forces of the quake? Time will tell, but it could be a very long time before anyone can get near enough, to properly investigate.

edit: for grammar

[SpoonFed]

9. non-issue

how the reactors were breached is just engineering navel gazing for the most part in my opinion. the main take away is that it's possible for them to breach and that the nay-saying industry insiders like Mr Goto are right about the fact that it's not possible for us to build these things to contain this shit.

it's like arguing whether it was the bullet in the chest or the head that killed the patient.
the nuclear power industry patient is lying in the morgue.

[CRH]

10. Actually I think the distinction is very important, ...

because if the design, not the function, was unable to withstand the stress of the earthquake, at what level would it have failed, 7.0, 8.0? It brings into immediate question the safety of 23 others closer to home. It brings into question, the industries judgement for keeping these online, it brings into question the government's judgement for renewing operating permits. It would bring into the spotlight, that it is not known what level of quake this reactor design can maintain structural integrity.

Though I do agree there is probably no design absolutely safe from natures fury, if it is found the design was inadequate, it strips bare the 'experts credibility', in the wake of disaster illustrated, failure. No hiding behind a tsunami, or a so far unrecorded 9.0 quake, no hiding behind 'who could have known'. Anyone with eyes will see, anyone with ears will hear, anyone with a brain will think; the nuclear experts, are not experts at all, and are blinded from reality with self interest.

Thanks,

on edit: spelling

[SpoonFed]

11. craters

"It brings into question..., it brings into question..., It would bring into the spotlight..."

Nah. The satellite shot of four smoking smouldering reactors got me to that point.

[CRH]

13. Me too, but how many people have returned to their 30 second attention span. ...

Where it would make a difference is how it must be factually argued, that it won't happen again, because ...

Notice how fast the general public refocused on cruise missiles in a newly pimped war. There is little the mass media can't later re-spin to manufacture public opinion. Inconvenient facts do tend to get in the way, sometimes.