Radioactive materials 10-million-times normal levels in water at the No.2 reactor

[ReturnoftheDjedi]

Extreme radiation detected at No.2 reactor

Tokyo Electric Power Company says it has detected radioactive materials 10-million-times normal levels in water at the No.2 reactor complex of the Fukushima Daiichi nuclear plant.

The plant operator, known as TEPCO, says it measured 2.9-billion becquerels of radiation per one cubic centimeter of water from the basement of the turbine building attached to the Number 2 reactor.

The level of contamination is about 1,000 times that of the leaked water already found in the basements of the Number 1 and 3 reactor turbine buildings.

The company says the latest reading is 10-million times the usual radioactivity of water circulating within a normally operating reactor.
TEPCO says the radioactive materials include 2.9-billion becquerels of iodine-134, 13-million becquerels of iodine-131, and 2.3-million becquerels each for cesium 134 and 137.

These substances are emitted during nuclear fission inside a reactor core.

The company says the extremely contaminated water may stem from a damaged reactor core, and are trying to determine how the leakage occurred.

University of Tokyo graduate school professor Naoto Sekimura says the leak may come from the suppression chamber of the Number 2 reactor, which is known to be damaged. The chamber is designed to contain overflows of radioactive substances from the reactor.
Sunday, March 27, 2011 13:44 +0900 (JST)
http://www3.nhk.or.jp/daily/english/27_12.html

10 Million times?!?

that is bad fucking news. :(

[buddysmellgood]

1. Where does that fall on that chart we keep seeing?

[flamingdem]

2. off da charts and probably almost off the geiger counter nt

[kysrsoze]

9. It's 1,000 millisieverts per hour; bottom end of radiation sickness - nausea, fatigue,

10% chance of death in the short-term (30 day), not sure what the long-term impacts are.

[ReturnoftheDjedi]

10. this water was measured at 1000 mSv or 1 Sv

[crickets]

3. I don't know how to process these numbers.

What do they really mean?

[flamingdem]

5. Where are the pro-nuke socks when you need them

I always say..

[crickets]

6. GMTA. A big fat lie would be really comforting right now.

After the first "remember to breathe" moment, there's no panic. Just numb. Damn. Oh, Japan.

[bananas]

11. It's 1,000 times the level that burned the workers feet.

So imagine something that would burn your feet,
and then imagine something one thousand times hotter.

[crickets]

14. Thanks. What concerns me

is what has changed to cause the numbers to jump that high so suddenly. The OP mentions fission inside the reactor core. Another post is discussion corium.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=102&topic_id=4788777&mesg_id=4788785

It sounds like the stopgap measures to keep the situation from worsening have failed.

[kysrsoze]

13. And why did it change from Curies/REMs to Sieverts? Madam Curie should not have died in vain

[PoliticAverse]

15. Curies and Sieverts measure different things...

Curies (and their international system of units replacement 'Becquerels') measure radioactive decay.
Sieverts (the international system of units replacement for the 'Rem') measure biological effect doses.

There have to be different units because all radioactive decay doesn't have the same biological effect.

See:
http://www.mcgill.ca/ehs/radiation/basics/units/
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ionizing_radiation_units

[Statistical]

18. Metric.

Curies and REM are US standards. There base units also were not the best chosen.

For example 1 Curie = 3.7 billion decays per second observed. The reason this was chosen is Curie was working with radium which has .... 3.7 billion decays per second.

Becquerel for example also measures decays but 1 Bq = 1 decay per second. Much more intelligently chosen base unit.

Bq & Sv = metric units
Ci and Rem = US standard units

[flamingdem]

4. I was hoping it was a translation error

You ask for transparency you get transparency.

The PM told Tepco to be more forthcoming..

[proud patriot]

7. good god

:-(

[Old and In the Way]

8. This sounds pretty scary....how mauch water is in these buildings?

That sample size is only about 18 cubic inches....how is anyone going to perform repair and maintanence in that environment?

[CoffeeCat]

12. This feels like a tipping point...

It's as if this entire thing has been a roller-coaster ride--with many saying that all
would be well and just sit back and that things would improve.

Well, this feels like the tipping point. Things seem extremely bad now. As you said, no one
can work in those conditions, so it seems like a Chernobyl-like situation (or worse) is highly
likely, if not certain.

Radiation levels are going through the roof. The NY Times just reported that they suspect a
crack.

I think we've passed the point of no return.

The media has been kow towing to the nuclear-energy industry up until now. I don't think they'll
have any choice but to start telling the truth and to stop disseminating rose-colored, PR window-dressing
articles that obfuscate.

[PoliticAverse]

16. They passed the 'point of no return'...

once there was a partial fuel meltdown or they started using salt water to cool the core.
In either case it meant the reactors were trashed.

The next point of no return is when you give up hope of cleaning up the mess and just decide you need
to bury/entomb it. An increasing number of people think these reactors will never be cleaned up and will
just be entombed.

Chernobyl sarcophagus: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chernobyl_Nuclear_Power_Plant_sarcophagus

[CoffeeCat]

17. I hear you. I wish someone...

...an expert with a conscience, would explain what this means to Japan and the world.

Who will be exposed to radiation and at what levels?

Could people in the United States be exposed?

Basic information...we're not even getting that. And we're in the middle of a nuclear-radiation crisis.

If this doesn't illustrate that we are expendable, and that our politicians consider corporate profits
more important than our lives--I don't know what does.

[PoliticAverse]

19. Many experts have commented on this event...

It's still not clear as to the extent of radiation release from the reactors in Japan and they are continuing
to release radioactive particles and will likely continue to do so for some time.

When dealing with radioactive particle releases like this one that are spread by prevailing winds it's very
difficult to determine exactly who was exposed and at what levels. Unlike plant workers the general public
doesn't wear dosimeters or respirators.

What this means is some people in Japan will be getting cancer that they wouldn't have otherwise have contracted.
How many will be very difficult to say. Look at the death estimates from Chernobyl which vary from about
4,000 to 1,000,000.

Some people won't be able to return to their homes in the affected area for a long time
(possibly never, see the Chernobyl exclusion zone: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chernobyl_Nuclear_Power_Plant_Exclusion_Zone
and the exclusion map: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/23/Chernobyl_radiation_map_1996.svg ).

Japanese food exports will suffer as concerned people avoid purchasing food products from the affected areas.

Some radioactive particles have reached the United States but apparently at very low levels so far.

I don't think the politicians are reacting to the event as a 'corporate profit' matter at this point.
Chernobyl was never about corporate profits nor was Hanford, Washington
(see http://www.spiegel.de/international/world/0,1518,752944,00.html ).

[PoliticAverse]

20. Update: Tepco say 10 Million reading was "not credible".

http://www.thestar.com/news/world/article/962396--measurement-of-radiation-spike-at-nuclear-plant-was-an-error?bn=1

[ReturnoftheDjedi]

22. they still stand by 1 Sievert readings. that'll kill you quick, too.

[SpoonFed]

23. right

my take is that 4 hours of 1Sv you've now got that 50% chance of death in 30 days blues.

so, you know, it's not like that's wrong. 1 million IS less than 10 million. AND dying in 30 days is less than dying in 14 days. etc. so technically these TEPCO officials aren't despicable liars.

[FBaggins]

24. Nah... It's bad, but it isn't that bad.

When the reported levels (in water/vegetables/milk/etc) were thousands of times too low to be a concern, there wasn't any point in raising this issue and complicating things, but now that we're talking about Sv-level reports, it's time to clarify a mistake that's commonly made in the reporting.

There's no way to point a geiger counter at a pool of water and say "That's 500 millisieverts per hour!", because all you can measure is activity levels, and Sv isn't a measure of activity (Bq is). You can have a high level of activity yet end up with a low dose if, for instance, you're wearing the right clothing.

There's no way to report on the dose that someone receives by just measuring activity. Then it gets even more complicated, because what you really need to know is the adjusted effective dose. IOW, it matters what part of your body gets the dose AND the type of radiation doing the damage (1Bq of alpha isn't the same as 1Bq of beta).

Take the recent events in the basement where 2-3 guys were sent to the hospital. The report said that they received 4Sv. What they probably meant was 4Gy, but few reporters understand that there's a difference. A whole-body dose of 4Sv (as you correctly identified above) is a possible killer... it'll certainly do a number on you. But they're just expected to lose a little dead skin and walk out just fine a week or two from now. Their real effective dose is between 150-200 mSv. The kind of thing that increases their risk of cancer later in life (except, again, it's their feet... so it's not all that likely).

So these are highly dangerous levels, but it's still possible to work in that environment if it's necessary.

[SpoonFed]

25. thanks for...

your pretend re-adjustment of the hypothetica lmeasuring equipment used, type of exposure and situation on the ground there from your armchair.

I'm just gonna posit that it's just as likely to assume this is a full body dose of the amount they report since I'm going with the same information as you and don't feel like underestimating for the sake of being consistent for the past 14 days.

Why don't you head over to Fukushima already.

[FBaggins]

27. You don't need to assume anything... just pay attention.

They didn't go swimming in the water... they were standing in it and it got in their boots. Taking the number as a whole-body dose makes little sense. Also, their whole-body dose was announced and reported in multiple places (somewhere around 160-190 mSv IIRC). This happens to match perfectly what the doctors said about their condition and expected course of treatment. They'll have burned feet, but walk home fine in a week or two with no long-term effect.

If we assume that the 4-6Sv figure is a correct full-body dose... they aren't leaving the hospital any time soon unless it's in a bag.

[PamW]

26. Correct you are.

Take the recent events in the basement where 2-3 guys were sent to the hospital. The report said that they received 4Sv. What they probably meant was 4Gy, but few reporters understand that there's a difference. A whole-body dose of 4Sv (as you correctly identified above) is a possible killer... it'll certainly do a number on you.
=========================

Yes - the news media has been particularly terrible in explaining this, if they
even understand it themselves.

Let me also reiterate a point you make above. The doses are per unit mass.

You can get a large dose to your finger, or feet and that's not going to kill you.
That's because only your finger or only your foot is getting that dose.

If you get the same dose as a "whole body" dose, then sensitive and vital organs
are getting that dose, and the situation is much more serious.

PamW

[jimlup]

21. I wouldn't take any of these readings as trustworthy

I think we don't know what the hell is going on. Tepco has a big incentive to shade the truth for several reasons. Factions of the public is inclined towards both over and under reaction for several reasons as well. The information of what is actually is going on will not be known for several years. As best I can tell: at least one of the reactor containment vessel's is compromised. This is very serious. If I were within 100 miles of the reactor I'd be looking to leave. Other than that, it will be very difficult to get accurate information.