The Nissan Leaf and range anxiety

[wtmusic]

I'm off the oil teat* - my all-electric Leaf arrived Friday. I've driven about 120 miles and am very impressed so far. A few observations to share:

"Spongy" range
The Leaf has a range indicator showing the number of miles remaining. The calculation is based on an average of driving habits since the last charge.

This can be disconcerting at first. For example, this morning the range read 107 miles after a fresh charge. After accelerating up a freeway onramp it quickly dropped to 75 miles - then after driving a few minutes on the freeway, it gradually climbed back up to 92 miles. This mileage roller coaster continues for a while until the average includes enough data to stabilize (it might be be more helpful to base mileage on a cumulative average driving "style" across several charges).

When you get to where you're going and turn it off for half an hour, you may be surprised to come back and find 5 extra miles of range. This is the result of a phenomenon peculiar to batteries known as "growing amps" in EV circles. Sometimes it's a lifesaver - when your battery is almost run down you can wait half an hour and sometimes have enough to get home.

The best way I can describe the car's range characteristics is "spongy" - your driving style makes a bigger difference than with an I/C car. Be nice to it and it's extra-nice back; run it hard, and it will beat you up. That takes some getting used to, but is not a cause for anxiety.

Great handling
If you were able to take 1/6 of your car's curb weight and put it below the axles in the center of the car, you'd have an optimum design for handling. This is exactly what Nissan has done by hanging the Leaf's battery pack under the passenger compartment, so it corners like a dream. I'm surprised Nissan hasn't promoted this asset more.

Pickup is excellent in normal driving mode. You can switch to "Eco" mode, which does three things: 1) reduces available acceleration 2) hits regen harder when you step off the accelerator 3) reduces power available for air conditioning/heating. It appears to allow you to buy about 10 more miles of range, and though the difference is noticeable, it's not completely sucky.

Prius-like interface
The dash electronics are very similar to Priuses with built in navigation, pushbutton start, efficiency indicator, etc. Additionally you can set timers to charge the car, turn on AC/heating from your smartphone, view state-of-charge from your smartphone, etc. If you open a "Carwings" account with Nissan your Leaf automatically transmits information about your driving to Nissan, which you can then view online. It looks like they've included every feature a geek could want, and then some.

No spare tire
A wtf moment(?). As a replacement, you get a can of sealant to spray into the tire and an air compressor that plugs into the dash. If that doesn't work, you call a tow truck (this gives me more anxiety than the range issue).

*ok, so 9% of my electricity comes from natural gas, and 25% from coal. Working on that. :D

[Kolesar]

1. Congratulations

I don't remember the last time one of my cars had a flat tire. I think it was six years ago when I had a rented vehicle.

[wtmusic]

17. Thanks.

That's true, when I learned to drive it happened a lot more often than it does now.

[napoleon_in_rags]

2. Good for you! I'm so jealous.

My old Subaru is getting like 16 mpg city, its killing me.

Do you live in a place where you can collect solar? That would be awesome.

[wtmusic]

16. I do

and after I climb out of the hole I'm in from this purchase, I'm going to look into that.

Maybe the price will have come down a bit by then.

[Delarage]

19. LOVE IT

I'm taking an alternate route to the same goal--I've got solar panels on my roof that produce a surplus each year. With the extra capacity, I want to get an electric car like your Leaf (or maybe a plug-in hybrid like the Volt). Then my car will be running on sunshine. I CAN'T WAIT :bounce: :bounce: :bounce:

[wtmusic]

21. Would love to get some info on your setup

I'm a novice at solar and have no idea what the expense is now.

I'm assuming your generation goes into the grid and offsets charging, is that correct?

[Delarage]

22. Yup

I live in Delaware, and we had a pretty good rebate program going (they recently reduced it, however). But, at the time I got the system (2 years in July), it was 50% paid for by the state, then I got the federal rebate of 30% of the remainder. Total up-front was $12,500 for a 1.5 KWH system (I really don't use much electricity). After it was all said and done, I think I was out about $4,000. I've saved a little over $1,000/year in electricity, knocking it down to $2,000. I've earned a few "Renewable Energy Credits," knocking it further down to about $1,200. My gas and electric are on the same bill, so the surplus I make knocks out my gas AND electric bill for a couple months in the fall. I love getting the bill with "Amt. Owed: 0" for those months!

So, one more year and it's all profit (unless you count the value added to my house; I think my energy bills would be a selling point).

I'd rather use the excess to power my car and find other ways to reduce my natural gas bill (ex: tankless and/or solar water heater). I already heat my house with firewood, so my gas/electric bill never exceeds $40.00/month.

EDIT---even though our rebate program decreased, I believe the price of panels has gone down, so "new" systems would probably cost the same as mine in Delaware. Home Depot or Lowes was talking about selling a "Do it Yourself" system that you can install, then get an elecrician to make the final connections. If I lived in a ranch-type house, I would have considered that had it been an option. But my panels are on the higher part of a split-level, and there's no way my butt would be up there :scared:

[wtmusic]

23. That's where my panels would be

but being the cheap bastard I am, I'll probably suck it up and climb a ladder.

Do you earn a credit toward next month's bill if you generate more than you use in a month?

Also, is "1.5 kWh" the average your system produces in a day?

(thanks for info)

[Delarage]

25. Hmmmm.....

I meant that I have a 1.575 KW system; there's a difference between KWH and KW

http://www.think-energy.net/KWvsKWH.htm

My system seems to make about 7-8 KWH per day (depending on the weather), which is more than I use. I generally have a negative KWH balance that keeps rolling over and growing on my bill until the anniversary date of the installation, at which point they credit me the dollar amount of the electricity I produced. That dollar credit covers my gas use for a couple months.

[wtmusic]

29. Ah ok.

7-8 kWh/day would probably cover me too, minus the car. :thumbsup:

[godai]

3. I'm on the waiting list. No spare is not a big worry.

I'm driven a car with no spare for more than 5 years. I have never been stranded with a flat tire. Tires have sensors to warn of low pressure as an early warning. Just how often do people get flats nowadays? Some people carry a tire plug to use, just in case.

Test drove a Leaf last weekend in DC. Car is roomy, plenty of power and never ever needs a gas station. But, we won't get deliveries on the east coast until next year.

If you drive around 50-60 miles a day, this car's fine. That's most drivers.


Enjoy!

Good Leaf forum:

http://www.mynissanleaf.com/

[wtmusic]

15. You're right, not many flats these days.

Thanks for link :thumbsup:

[AndyTiedye]

20. Flat Tires Don't Seem All that Uncommon Around Here

We get a flat about once every other year.

[leveymg]

4. If the car has a GPS, why doesn't it just calculate range based on past routes driven?

What good is all this technology if no one can figure out how to put it together?

As for hanging a lot of weight low and behind the rear axle, that's what Chevy did with the first generation Corvair (a little scary), and Porsche did with the 911 (there's a reason they still build them that way after half a century).

Last question/comment: where does the remaining 67% of your electricity come from?

[godai]

6. Range varies depending on speed and temperature.

If you drive a day at 40 miles an hour and the next day at 65 miles an hour, you will have less range the second day. The car can't predict that.

The battery weight is under the seats, not behind the rear axle.

Where does all the gasoline for your car come from and what happens to that fuel when you drive?

[wtmusic]

12. It's still being figured out

I assumed as a first-adopter there were going to be some kinks, and it's a software issue so maybe they will include your suggestion for V.2.

At my local utility I pay extra to be a "Gold Energy Champion" so 60% comes from renewables.

[truedelphi]

18. You never know how much energy yr car needs to travel the same

Route.

Example: ten miles into the nearest town from my home. Usually i can do tht on on eighth of a tank of gas (All we own is this big misearble gas guzzler till the Toyota is repaired)

Yesterday head winds of up to forty miles an hour meant my drive into town used closer to a full quarter tank of gas. The wind had died down by the time I drove back, so I didn't even benefit from the high winds "helping" me with gas conservation on the drive home.

[Whoa_Nelly]

5. So how do you re-charge if taking a road trip?

or is just an in-town type vehicle?

[godai]

9. Charging network being developed for 20 min recharge on the road.

But, it is more on a local use car.

[wtmusic]

10. It's an in-town type of vehicle

We live in L.A. and my wife will be commuting to work in it, roundtrip 26 miles.

Not practical for road trips, but ideal for a two-car family since probably 90% of our miles are local. It only costs about $3 to "fill it up".

[Marblehead]

7. a big FU

to the oil companies, I want one!

[wtmusic]

13. That gives me more satisfaction than you can imagine.

I would probably buy this car if it had half the range it does.

[kentauros]

8. "I'm surprised Nissan hasn't promoted this asset more."

Because Americans are afraid of curves! ;)

I can't tell you how many times I've been behind someone in a car that was designed to handle curves way better than my Civic and are taking said curve 20mph under the speed I'd take without them in front of me. I guess they get all the thrill of a good curve from car ads alone and refuse to experience it firsthand.

I'd say you're enjoying the curves just fine. Keep it up! :hi:

[wtmusic]

11. Very true

With the advent of SUVs IMO people got very freaked out about rolling them. :hi:

[kentauros]

14. That's probably it.

But if you're in a Boxster, I shouldn't ever be able to read your license plate with ease :P

[AtheistCrusader]

24. Very cool! Money where your mouth is.

I'd love one of these things, but I can't afford it right now. Probably in the next 2 years. Thanks for helping get the kinks out first. :)

[hunter]

26. If my current cars are any guide...

... I may be driving one of these in 2035.

I'm a very late adopter. My cars and my computers are built from junk. I can fix anything with duct tape, epoxy, and zip ties.

You take care of that lovely car, okay? I may be around in a few decades to kick the tires and take it for a test drive...

:P

[wtmusic]

32. More convinced than ever that 40% of the cars on the road will be EVs

in ten years, and they'll be under $20K in less than that.

Just got a call from my wife - she had 93 miles of range after making a 13-mile drive to work in stop-and-go traffic.

They seem to do far better in city driving than highway. :shrug:

[Javaman]

27. Hadn't you built your own electric vehicle a while back?

I vaguely recall the posts.

[wtmusic]

30. Heh, yes I did.

It's sitting in my driveway waiting for new batteries. I am probably going to replace them, then sell the car for whatever I can get.

It was a great experiment and completely viable transportation - for a while. But lead-acid batteries charged in series are difficult to maintain. Let one get low on water, and the whole pack can go south. Overcharge them when it's cold outside - same result.

[hunter]

31. Many solar enthusiasts have been disillusioned by lead acid batteries...

Dirty evil bastids them batteries are.

That's why you see propane forklifts in so many warehouses. They stink but nobody has to fuss with them.

And I noticed Nissan is also making lithium battery forklifts...



http://www.nissanforklift.com/company-information/nissan-green.htm

[Yo_Mama]

28. Thank you, very interesting

I still can't afford one of these, but....