Where is the floor of the refueling bay Unit 3? Where is the reactor lid?

[Fledermaus]

Unit 1

http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2011/03/16/world/asia/reactors-status.html


Unit 3

http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2011/03/16/world/asia/reactors-status.html

[lutherj]

1. Where are the snows of yesteryear? nt

[damntexdem]

17. Flowing out through the sewers of the cities that rely on the snowpack for water.

And Unit 3 is also down the toilet. ;-)

[flamingdem]

2. Do you mean also where are the spent fuel rods containing MOX

good question!

[Fledermaus]

3. Yes, I wonder where they went?

[flamingdem]

5. kaplooey

I wonder if some of it is in the ocean.

If it's on the premises I'd think they'd have to confess to that.

If pulverized then it's in a plume over our heads, yow

[kristopher]

18. The body of the crane fell into the pool and smooshed them.

According to the latest vid released yesterday.

[ReturnoftheDjedi]

7. if those spent rods were destroyed in the explosion an TEPCO has hidden it,

then they have committed a Crime against Humanity.

[crickets]

4. The MOX is inside the reactor itself.

MOX hadn't been in use at Fukushima long enough to be placed in the waste (spent fuel rod) pools. Fukushima 3 was going through the first energy cycle with MOX. It's cold comfort given the containment breaches, but when the roof, and likely some of the contents of the pools, went flying sky high the MOX was still inside the reactor.

It's still there. For now.

I think the vid of the explosion gives everyone a good idea where the missing bits of the building have gone. :(

[flamingdem]

6. Are you sure, I think I read they had it in the pool, but the story changed nt

[crickets]

9. If the information I'm reading is accurate

(and that is not a given) then I'm sure. Which means relatively sure given the information I'm seeing.

http://www.naturalnews.com/031736_plutonium_enriched_uranium.html
Largely absent from most mainstream media reports on the Fukushima Daiichi nuclear disaster is the fact that a highly-dangerous "mixed-oxide" (MOX) fuel in present in six percent of the fuel rods at the plant's Unit 3 reactor.

http://www.csmonitor.com/USA/2011/0314/Japanese-nuclear-reactor-update-Amid-signs-of-progress-new-problems/(page)/2
Another little-reported concern is a small but potentially dangerous amount of plutonium-based "MOX" – mixed-oxide fuel – inside the No. 3 reactor, says Dr. Lyman, who notes that plutonium particles are more dangerous to the human body than other particles that might be emitted.

http://www.economicpopulist.org/content/hidden-truths-about-nuclear-power
We're witnessing a preview of the future with the MOX cycle. Fukushima I, unit 3, began using MOX in September 2010. Here's a nuclear engineer formerly with Tokyo Power on unit 3: "Goto said that the MOX also has a lower melting point than the other reactor fuels. The Fukushima facility began using MOX fuel in September 2010, becoming the third plant in Japan to do so, according to MOX supplier AREVA." D.C. Bureau March 15

These are just a few of the sources I've seen; others I've come across quickly aren't really reputable enough to quote. Each source refers to MOX as fuel rods or as being present inside the reactor, but not spent fuel.

[FBaggins]

11. There wouldn't be any "spent" MOX fuel in the pool

because they haven't been in the core long enough to be "spent"

BUT it has been variously reported that a handful (30-odd) MOX assemblies were in the pool. If that's true, then they are more likely UN-"spent" fuel (waiting to be loaded at some later date).

This would give them less activity (no fission products), but a higher proportion of Plutonium (since it hadn't been used up).

[Fledermaus]

22. Arrrrrr! Captain Ahab, what be these shiny metal rods?

[FBaggins]

28. You think the "shiny metal rods" are plutonium?

You're kidding, right?

[Wilms]

30. Do you have an image of a MOX assembly? Would it have melted exposed to air?

I found this...



...here.

http://www.coolhandnuke.com/Cool-Hand-Blog/articleType/ArticleView/articleID/35/The-future-of-spent-nuclear-fuel.aspx

:shrug:

[FBaggins]

31. I've seen a few variations and no, it wouldn't melt in the air.

From what I can tell, the MOX assemblies in the spent fuel pool for #3 are not "spent"... they're new assemblies waiting to be swapped in at the next refeuling (a year or more from now - but of course that won't happen). They are therefore not particularly "active" and could sit out in the air all day long without danger.

It would be sitting next to the spent fuel as it burned uncontrollably that would be the problem.

[Wilms]

32. Is it possible, them, that the rods in the images are fuel rods?

If rods are broken, isn't that a bad thing?

[FBaggins]

33. "Possible"? Sure.

And there are lots of "bad things" going on there right now. It certainly isn't a GOOD thing, but I don't see any reason to think those are fuel rods or that they're broken in a way that releases as much radioactive material as if they were in a fuel pool fire.

[Wilms]

34. I doesn't look like rebar.

:shrug:

[FBaggins]

35. Ok.

Is this the only other possibility?

If those are fuel rods sitting on TOP of debris from unit #3, then they should be all over the site, not just up there. Why would radiation levels be so low in that case?

[Wilms]

36. I'm just askin'. n/t

[Statistical]

21. MOX fuel was first loaded in 10 AUG 2010 to "young" to be spent yet.

http://www.world-nuclear-news.org/newsarticle.aspx?id=28211

Most reactors are on 24 months refuel cycle. Japan seems to be behind the time with 18 month refuel cycle however even @ 18 months refueling would be around Feb 2012.

[Fledermaus]

8. Yes, but Plutonium is a byproduct of the uranium nuclear chain reaction.

So even the spent fuel rods have some in them. I don't know how much.

[crickets]

10. True.

:(

[Statistical]

20. About 1% plutonium by weight.

A fresh MOX fuel assembly is about 7% plutonium. In the reactor it is "burned up" until it reaches equilibrium at around 2% plutonium.
The idea that MOX fuel is a some massive increase in plutonium is fear mongering.

Fresh Uranium Fuel - 0% plutonium.
Uranium Fuel at equilibrium in reactor - 1% plutonium (can actually get up to about 4% early in fuel cycle)
Spent Uranium Fuel - 1% plutonium

Fresh MOX Fuel - 7% plutonium
MOX Fuel at equilibrium in reactor - ~2% plutonium (falls rapidly from 7% to 2% in first couple months)
Spent MOX Fuel - ~2% plutonium.

When you consider that less than 1/3 of #3 is MOX fuel and 2/3rds conventional the delta is even less.

[FBaggins]

12. I don't see how you're seeing (or failing to see) anything in there.

It's a tangled mess.

And I doubt that you're seeing the "floor of the refeuling bay" on unit 31 either. I don't know if that's the collapsed roof covering (suprisingly neatly) the rest of the building... or what it is - but it isn't the foor of the refeuling bay. It looks like a virtually unbroken surface.

[Fledermaus]

26. The pools are gone and the floor.

[FBaggins]

29. That's a pretty active imagination you've got there.

Why aren't any of the things happening that would HAVE to happen if that were the case?

[NNadir]

13. I have them in my backyard, along with the 12,345,687 people who all died from the grand nuclear

event.

By the way, what is the body count from the grand nuclear event from our official anti-nuke sources? One billion dead at least, am I right?

Or is the body count less than the known count from the collapse of the Fujinuma dam?

What dam?

You don't know?

Why am I not surprised?

[Wilms]

14. About 310 people died from the dam failure.

http://www.arabtimesonline.com/NewsDetails/tabid/96/smid/414/ArticleID/166581/reftab/149/t/Dam-breaks-in-northeast-Japan-washes-away-homes/Default.aspx

Given the likely number of deaths from Chernobyl, not the whitewashed numbers, what do you think of long-term prospects for those in the region Fukushima?

Finally, what are the long-term effects from the tremendous amount of water pollution unleashed by the Fujinuma dam's collapse? How long will the land downstream be uninhabitable? Will they EVER be able to remove all the water that has spilled? Or are we talking thousands of years?

[kristopher]

19. Right on schedule...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=user_profiles&u_id=269455

[flamingdem]

25. Haw! He was a fighta nt

[Fledermaus]

24. I think they found your reactor lid over in Unit 1.

Well, they found a lid. I don't know if thats where is should be though.

[Fledermaus]

27. Maybe its a spare?

[PA Democrat]

15. Photo of reactor #4 lid

Handout photo shows the No. 4 reactor of the Fukushima Daiichi Nuclear Power Station in Fukushima Prefecture in the morning of March 27, 2011. The dome-shaped structure visible is the lid of the reactor containment vessel. Efforts have been under way to restore the crippled plant since the March 11 quake and tsunami disaster. (Photo taken and supplied by the Ground Self-Defense Force)(Kyodo)

http://english.kyodonews.jp/photos/2011/03/81403.html

[Fledermaus]

23. Yes, that's the lid for Unit 4. Wheres Unit 3s?

The pressure vessel is or was directly below that yellow dome.

This is what a Mark 1 looks like when it is being refueled.

[damntexdem]

16. The lid has been blown out the roof.

The floor is on the way to the center of the earth.

Hey, look at the bright side: given where Japan is, at least it's not a China syndrome. ;-)