Plug in retrofit for Prius

[dcfirefighter]

I can't find the OP, but this was discussed by Coastie for the Truth:

http://www.edrivesystems.com/Edrive-FAQ.html

~$12,000 initial cost
~first 50 miles after charge up get 100+ mpg
~9h charge time from 0 charge
~9kw-h full charge =< $1 for most utilities (std prius is ~1.3 kw-h)
my guess is that 80% of most folks trips are less than 50 miles.
at 15,000 miles a year, 12,000 of these miles would be under the enhanced mode, saving 120 gallons of fuel a year, or approximately $300 a year, vs. an additional $2800+ in car payments for 5 years.

I think for $2500 a year, I could afford to move closer to work (or work closer to home) or find some other means to conserve.

That being said, it's a great idea, I'd consider buying it for the smug, self satisfied pleasure I'm sure it'd bring me. If I had a prius and $12,000 to burn.

Even if fuel were $5 / gal, and the kit cost half as much, it's still be an economic loser.

Interestingly, Mercedez-Benz offers their Sprinter van in a hybrid-diesel version with a plug in option. While the van is available in the US under the Dodge badge, I doubt the HEV version is, yet. I drove a Ford-badged european-style van all over Ireland a few years ago, and would definitely buy a van like this before I bought a full-size 4 door pickup truck.

Mercedes-Benz Sprinter now also with diesel-electric hybrid drive

[Delarage]

1. I wonder if you could mount photovoltaic panels on the roof or hood

that would re-charge the batteries as the car sat in sunny parking lots or driveways. That would be cool.

[skids]

6. The roof area would probably hold 300W of cells max.

...The batteries in the Prius+ system are 9Kwh. So a full charge while parked 8 hours at work is unlikely, but you could get something out of it. Not much in the way of cost savings, though, as gas has a lot of power in it per gallon.

[dcfirefighter]

7. I don't think that you could get that much

maybe there are 2 sq m of roof space, and unless you have a tilt up panel (which would cost more aerodynamically than it gave in solar power) you're only going to lose a lot of effective area to the angle of incidence, at least 25% through most of the day. Then you find that PV only converts about 10% of the incident light energy to electricity, and you wind up with maybe 150W. If you could park in full sun while at work for 9h, you get get 1.35kw-h, which is a full charge on the stock prius battery - which would get you 8-10 miles of 100+ mpg, which is pretty useful, actually, IF you could park in the sun.

[skids]

8. Today's cells are more efficient than that n/t

[NickB79]

13. Actually, no they're not

It has been pointed out by several people here that, when you do the calculations, modern solar panels still only yield 10-15% efficiency in real-world use. There are experimental panels still in development that can come close to 40-50%, but thats under ideal conditions, where there is no rain, no clouds, no shortened days in winter. In real-world conditions, they would probably be 25% efficient, if that.

[skids]

15. Yada Yada.

Yes I've heard all that before. The person I was replying to said 10% of light incident to the panel. They did not say % of overall use with weather factored in and all the rest. Modern panels are in fact more efficient than that which is what I said.

And, to answer the original question much more, just check the new thread... I wasn't too far off -- that guy got 260 peak watts on his Classic Prius's roof. Though the getup looks awfully tenuous to me -- he cheated a tad as half of one of the three panels is overhanging the back window :-)

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=115x29064

[skids]

2. Yeah, but...

...They left all us Prius Classic owners out in the cold. They have no plans to make one for the Prius Classic despite us buyers being the "early adopters" that encouraged Toyota to keep on with the new line.

That's gratitude for ya. Though I do understand that they want to tackle the newer models for commercial purposes, it still sucks.

[dcfirefighter]

4. It's not a toyota project

it's independent, so yeah, they're going to stick with the new version. I think I'd like a new prius with the plug in option but without the $11,500 worth of battery. So maybe i'd get 100 mpg on the first 8-10 miles of every trip after charging. I think this would save me 80 gallons a year, or $200 a year vs. $10 a month on a 60 month loan (assuming the cord & charger cost $500).

[skids]

5. Yeah, I know that.

It's just frustrating that this company isn't even considering the Prius Classic. It would be one thing if it wasn't their top priority, but they have no plans whatsoever to do so. You would think that those that bought the Classic are more likely to go in for the mods -- they are the technical risk takers, after all.

Anyway, for me it is not about saving gas money. I did the math when I bought the Prius and knew the gas savings would not offset the costs enough to both pay for the eventual battery pack replacement and the additional cost of the hybrid system. Plus the tires wear quickly. Most Prius owners are the same -- they were not expecting to save money.

The point is reduced emissions -- near zero pollutants and a lot less contribution to global carbon load. I suspect people buying into Prius+ are doing so for those same reasons, not to save cash.

(And no, power from the grid is not "just as dirty" as power from gasoline.)

[LizMoonstar]

3. I'm holding out for a retrofit that'll run a '93 Toyota Tercel

My econobox, 'The Blue Falcon', wants to help the environment too.

[AndyTiedye]

10. I Want a Hybrid Retrofit for the Honda Del Sol

It gets about 40 mpg already, so a hybrid version should improve on that quite a bit.

Has anyone done a retrofit that puts electric motors on the rear wheels
of a FWD car?

[Strelnikov_]

9. Maybe A Less Aggressive Implementation Would Be Useful

Q:What is the EV driving range?
A: If you were to limit your speed to 34mph or less, the gas engine may not come on for up to 35miles.

And from the following article:

Take This Car And PLUG IT
http://www.spectrum.ieee.org/WEBONLY/resource/jul05/0705ncar.html

Researchers have shown that battery packs offering an effective electric range of 32 km (20 mi) will yield up to a 50 Percent reduction in petroleum consumption

A car driven 12,000 mi/yr, 80% daily utilization, is approx. 40 mi./dy. Considering that the Prius gets 50 mpg in HEV mode, assuming a 20 mi. EV range a PHEV Prius average fuel consumption of 100 mpg seems reasonable.

EV range per day could be stretched even further by supplemental charging during the day. For example, recharging at your workplace after a 20 mi. commute would yield a 40 mi. EV range, or a 40 mi. daily commute without liquid fuels.

Seems to me to be the best of both worlds. A 35 mph EV with a charge range of 20 mi., or a conventional HEV that can be driven our the hills and across the dale to Grandmas's house when required.

100 mpg in a real car, and all with today's technology. Where can I but one, Toyota?

[cprise]

11. An alternate term for this is GO-HEV

Which I think is rather nifty. :) It sstands for Gas-Optional Hybrid Electric Vehicle.

The Sprinter link is quite interesting. Thanks.

[Bamboo]

12. Seaway is switching to Lithium-Ion for better Range.

Their 2005 sales brochure says that a Segway gets 450 MPG.The Prius would benefit from these batteries even if it was not a plug in hybrid.We should convert vehicles with poor mileage to run on compressed natural gas because production of hybrids will not keep up with demand.There are fewer than ten thousand Segways in existence but it is banned from many places like Disneyworld.Florida has concealed handgun permits,someone with a gun is allowed into Disneyworld but a little Segway scares them.

[NickB79]

14. It has been pointed out that lithium is a fairly rare metal on Earth

There isn't enough lithium on the planet to replace all the batteries in the world's cars, much less supply other areas of manufacturing that require lithium.

The smart answer is to tell people to simply drive fewer cars and use more public transportation, but if we were smart we would already be doing these things.