Live stream of Arnie Gundersen and others discussing Fukishima 6:30PM EST (Fri Apr 15)

[bananas]

crosspost from GD: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=439x900817

LIVE STREAM OF ARNIE GUNDERDSEN DISCUSSING FUKUSHIMA @ 6:30 PM ET AT THIS LINK:

http://www.fairewinds.com /

[FBaggins]

1. Read a transcript from him today.

He was full of it of course... but I found one bit interesting.

Fukushima is already much worse than Chernobyl... and it's going to kill 200,000 people over the next 50 years.

Question for those of you who insist that Chernobyl killed over 900,000 people:

Can Arnie not add... or did he just call you a liar? :rofl:

[bananas]

2. Arnie's been right about everything so far.

There are different estimates for Chernobyl, using different criteria.
According to some idiots, Chernobyl caused no deaths at all, and even magically healed people, because radiation is good for you.

[FBaggins]

3. No he hasn't.

Come on... he's got a new worst-already-happening case almost every day. Multiple claims of active fission that turned out (obviously) not to be the case... exposed fuel racks... dry pools... "thousands of degrees".. need we go on?

According to some idiots, Chernobyl caused no deaths at all

Can you name one? Virtually everyone at the site during the initial stages of the accident had their dosimeters completely blacked. Even the most conservative estimates have to include dozens of people killed with radiation sickness and at least hundreds more from cancers they wouldn't have otherwise gotten.

There are different estimates for Chernobyl, using different criteria.

Sure. But the four that matter are:

1) Deaths
2) Total radiation released
3) Financial damage
4) Environmental damage (obviously related to #4).

Chernobyl "wins" on all cards. So I guess we can add that to the list at the top. :)

[Fledermaus]

4. What does TEPCO have?

How will they end Fukushima disaster? Look at the Chernobyl history -firemen fighting an open reactor core fire, 3 volunteers diving through radioactive water to open a valve, 2 of them dying, the frantic efforts to drill under the reactor and freeze the ground with liquid nitrogen, ALL the liquid nitrogen of western soviet union, mining equipment, oil drilling equipment, mining crews, all to prevent a second steam explosion. In what time frame? First week. Look at the Chernobyl vehicle graveyard. Look at those enormous helicopters. Look how much was thrown at it to end the disaster.

What does TEPCO have to handle three Chernobyls? Why will no insurance company provide liability insurance to the nuclear industry?

It's like watching a train wreck in slow motion.

[FBaggins]

5. Was any of that supposed to make sense?

Maybe the wrong thread?

Yes... Chernobyl was really bad. But none of those things happened here.

Are you really so ... Hmmm... "unnuanced" that two things must be identical because they are both reactors?

Really?

[bananas]

6. Yes he has.

The fuel melted, which means it was "thousands of degrees".

"Melting of Japan plant's fuel rods confirmed"
http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/world/2011/0415/1224294728753.html

"However, the analysis indicates that it is quite unlikely that spontaneous fission is the sole or even the main explanation for the measured concentration of chlorine-38."
http://japanfocus.org/-Arjun-Makhijani/3509

[FBaggins]

7. Oh please.

The fuel melted, which means it was "thousands of degrees".

He didn't claim that the core had reached that temperature "at some point in the past"... he looked at an infrared photo days after the meltdown had ended and said that the current temperature was in the thousands of degrees. He was saying that active fission continued in there.

And he was flat wrong.

"However, the analysis indicates that it is quite unlikely that spontaneous fission is the sole or even the main explanation for the measured concentration of chlorine-38."

Not that *&^# again? There wasn't any Chlorine-38. Do you really think that active fission would only evidence itself by a transitory release of ONE fission product? Without any others at the time? Without any other symptom of active fission?

Really?

[SpoonFed]

8. FBags Crystal Ball

I like how you've already projected your reality into the future (what's the color of the sky in there again?) and determined the total cost on all fronts of this disaster and have come to the conclusion that Chernobyl was much much worse.

You and the other pro-nuke industry types have lost the wind from your sails and are having a hard time coming to grips with the fact that this is in fact much much worse than 1986 since the Japanese have effectively been screwing the pooch since the outset. It's clear as day to anyone with a half an ounce of common sense.

Sucks, doesn't it, that it's finally and unequivocally reached level 7 since that talking point has vanished. It's at least equal now, by anyone's standards but yours. Keep treading that water Mr Baggins, your arms are going to get tired eventually.

By the way, point #4 doesn't make sense. Be more careful when cutting and pasting from the talking point memos you dudes are circulating amongst yourselves.

[FBaggins]

9. You mean Arnie's

He's the one predicting the number of deaths over 50 years. All I'm doing is pointing out that his BS doesn't match ANY science on the subject.


And no. It's not worse than Chernobyl... it isn't even close.

At this point in time, there had been hundreds of cases of acute radiation sickness. How many in Japan?

That's right... zero.

Most of the workers that were at Chernobyl when the incident occured were dead within three weeks. How many have died from radiation in Japan?

Right again! Zero.

Some milk from Fukushima is already back on the shelves in Japan. There's milk that's STILL above those levels decades later near Chernobyl.

Iodine levels in Milk as far away as Poland rose to 2,000 Bq/L... what's the highest you've seen reported in Japan (let alone hundreds of miles away)?

Japan had Iodine levels in milk of around 50 Bq/L from Chernobyl for a short time... even though it was eight thousand miles away.

What are the levels that we're detecting in milk here from Fukushima?


Hint... Chernobyl wasn't "just barely a seven" so that anything else that scores a seven is just the same.