ETHANOL POTENTIAL: 30% OF GASOLINE DEMAND

[JohnWxy]

The Oak Ridge National Laboratory report: Ethanol potential 30% of gasoline demand

The recently completed Oak Ridge National Laboratory report outlines a national strategy in which 1 billion dry tons of biomass - any organic matter that is available on a renewable or recurring basis - would displace 30 percent of the nation's petroleum consumption for transportation. Supplying more than 3 percent of the nation's energy, biomass already has surpassed hydropower as the largest domestic source of renewable energy, and researchers believe much potential remains.

"Our report answers several key questions," said Bob Perlack, a member of ORNL's Environmental Sciences Division and a co-author of the report. "We wanted to know how large a role biomass could play, whether the United States has the land resources and whether such a plan would be economically viable."

Looking at just forestland and agricultural land, the two largest potential biomass sources, the study found potential exceeding 1.3 billion dry tons per year. That amount is enough to produce biofuels to meet more than one-third of the current demand for transportation fuels, according to the report.

Such an amount, which would represent a six-fold increase in production from the amount of biomass produced today, could be achieved with only relatively modest changes in land use and agricultural and forestry practices.

original thread: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=115&topic_id=35706&mesg_id=35706

original original thread: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=115&topic_id=35558&mesg_id=35558

[texastoast]

1. Can you make ethanol from

hemp?

[Massacure]

2. Yes. But Hemp isn't the greatest souce of biomass for biofuels.

Hemp is great for paper and cloth, but I do not know if there would be any leftover parts that could be used for ethanol after those industries take their part of the plant. If your talking about using agricultural space primarily for biofuels, algae is the best crop by far.

[JohnWxy]

3. speaking of paper

I can't find it now, but I saw a site that said there is a plan underway in New England to make ethanol from waste product from paper mills. They said one of the advantages to this plan is that this waste material has already been partly processed by the paper manufacturing process!

[Oerdin]

4. Hemp would be a horrible source.

You want things with lots of sugar in them in order to maximize the creation of alcohol. Things like sugar cane and corn syrup are the two biggest sources though there are processes to break down cellulose (found in any plant). One of the more promising developments is turning wheat or corn cheaf into ethanol though this hasn't been proven to be viable on an industrial level.

[texastoast]

5. I just love this website

I learn so much! Thanks!

[JohnWxy]

10. Here is the original thread ...information over dis-information!

Here is the original thread:



USDA Study: Ethanol ENergy Gain of 34%


Argonne National Laboratory Study: Ethanol 38% GAin, and cellulosic ethanol is higher

USDA Study reveals 67% GAIN for Ethanol ...

"The net energy balance of corn ethanol adjusted for byproduct credits is 27,729 and
33,196 Btu per gallon for wet- and dry- milling, respectively, and 30,528 Btu per gallon
for the industry. The study results suggest that corn ethanol is energy efficient, as
indicated by an energy output/input ratio of 1.67."

The key here is that ethanol based on corn and other plant products can give us a quicker and cheaper start on renewable energy than any other source. But we will have to develop cellulosic ethanol (plantwaste and switch grasses (currently grown for erosion control - it grows where many crops are not feasible)) to fully realize ethanol's potential.

Ethanol 15 (15% ethanol) can be run in any engine that runs on gasoline. Ethanol 85 (85% ethanol) can be run in Flexible Fuel Vehicles (FFV) currently sold by all major auto manufacturers (no additional cost to buyer - unlike hybrid vehicles!!). THis is a technology that does not require billions of dollars of investment to make practical (unlike hybrid vehicles, for example). What is needed is a major push to invest in more and bigger (read more efficient) ehtanol plants which will bring down the cost of ethanol. Currently ethanol85 sells for an the average $2.06 per gal. THis compares with about $2.55 per gallon for premium grade gas (ethanol is rated 105 octane, premium gas is 92-93).

You wiil read that FFV vehicles don't get the mileage that gasoline cars do. NOt really so. IF auto manufacturers would optimize the FFV engines to take advantage of the higher octane they would get as good or better mileage as gasoline powered engines. SAAB 9-5 2.0 Lt BioPower produces 20% more power on Ethanol 85 than gasoline

JUst trying to give you a run-down of facts to counter disinformation you will undoubtedly run into here and elsewhere.

[midnight armadillo]

6. Now increase gas effiency by a factor of three...

...and you can do away with burning gasoline in vehicles!

This can be done without too much trouble, using modern composite materials, good aerodynamics, and hybrid powertrains. However, no car maker is making the effort.

[philb]

7. Study claims no net energy or economic benefit from ethanol or biodiesel

Study claims no net energy or economic benefit from ethanol or biodiesel (so who's right?)

By MARK JOHNSON Associated Press Writer

July 17, 2005, 12:13 PM EDT

ALBANY, N.Y. -- Farmers, businesses and state officials are investing millions of dollars in ethanol and biofuel plants as renewable energy sources, but a new study says the alternative fuels burn more energy than they produce.

Supporters of ethanol and other biofuels contend they burn cleaner than fossil fuels,

reduce U.S. dependence on oil and give farmers another market to sell their produce. Gov. George Pataki said last year he wants to "make New York's biofuels industry one of the strongest in the nation."

But researchers at Cornell University and the University of California-Berkeley say it takes 29 percent more fossil energy to turn corn into ethanol than the amount of fuel the process produces. For switch grass, a warm weather perennial grass found in the Great Plains and eastern North America United States, it takes 45 percent more energy and for wood, 57 percent.

It takes 27 percent more energy to turn soybeans into biodiesel fuel and more than double the energy produced is needed to do the same to sunflower plants, the study found.

"Ethanol production in the United States does not benefit the nation's energy security, its agriculture, the economy, or the environment," according to the study by Cornell's David Pimentel and Berkeley's Tad Patzek. They conclude the country would be better off investing in solar, wind and hydrogen energy. ]

The researchers included such factors as the energy used in producing the crop, costs that were not used in other studies that supported ethanol production, said Pimentel.

The study also omitted $3 billion in state and federal government subsidies that go toward ethanol production in the United States each year, payments that mask the true costs, Pimentel said.

Ethanol is an additive blended with gasoline to reduce auto emissions and increase its octane levels. Its use has grown rapidly since 2004, when the federal government banned the use of the additive MTBE to enhance the cleaner burning of fuel. About 3.6 billion gallons of ethanol were produced last year in the United States, according to the Renewable Fuels Association, an ethanol trade group.

The ethanol industry claims that using 8 billion gallons of ethanol a year will allow refiners to use 2 billion fewer barrels of oil. The oil industry disputes that, saying the ethanol mandate

[JohnWxy]

8. Evidence is overwhelming that Ethanol is practical and cheaper to produce

than gasoline. I have to keep dispelling the smoke screen created by disinformation. So be it.

pimentel

Edited on Fri Jan-06-06 08:26 AM by Skinner

Pimemtel's "studies" are widely known by legitimate researchers in this field to be fallacious in methodology and of no scientific value:


"It's abundantly clear that both corn ethanol and cellulose ethanol displace crude oil and save liquid fuels," said Bruce Dale, professor of chemical engineering at Michigan State University. "Dr. Pimentel's net energy argument is bogus. What counts is whether we can displace imported oil, and ethanol certainly does so."

Corzine said Pimentel and Patzek are the only researchers since 1995 who have found ethanol to have a negative energy balance. In fact, the nine other energy balance studies conducted since 1995 all found net energy gains of at least 25 percent. NCGA called into question the credibility of Pimentel and Patzek.

"Maybe the problem is Pimentel is an entomologist instead of an engineer," Corzine said, adding that Patzek was a longtime employee of Shell Oil Company and founder of the UC Oil Consortium, which has counted BP, Chevron USA, Mobil USA, Shell and Unocal among its members. Patzek also is a member of the Society of Petroleum Engineers, making his ethanol energy balance analysis hardly impartial, Corzine said.

"It's interesting to note that Mr. Pimentel now has ties -- direct ties -- to the petroleum industry," Corzine said. "We continue to offer the chance for debate and we continue to get no response from Mr. Pimentel. The facts are on our side and we will get the energy bill passed by the end of the month."


Several Studies Contradict Pimentel Ethanol Findings
>

[JohnWxy]

9. Evidence is overwhelming that Ethanol is practical and cheaper to produce

than gasoline. I have to keep dispelling the smoke screen created by disinformation. So be it.

pimentel

Edited on Fri Jan-06-06 08:26 AM by Skinner

Pimemtel's "studies" are widely known by legitimate researchers in this field to be fallacious in methodology and of no scientific value:


"It's abundantly clear that both corn ethanol and cellulose ethanol displace crude oil and save liquid fuels," said Bruce Dale, professor of chemical engineering at Michigan State University. "Dr. Pimentel's net energy argument is bogus. What counts is whether we can displace imported oil, and ethanol certainly does so."

Corzine said Pimentel and Patzek are the only researchers since 1995 who have found ethanol to have a negative energy balance. In fact, the nine other energy balance studies conducted since 1995 all found net energy gains of at least 25 percent. NCGA called into question the credibility of Pimentel and Patzek.

"Maybe the problem is Pimentel is an entomologist instead of an engineer," Corzine said, adding that Patzek was a longtime employee of Shell Oil Company and founder of the UC Oil Consortium, which has counted BP, Chevron USA, Mobil USA, Shell and Unocal among its members. Patzek also is a member of the Society of Petroleum Engineers, making his ethanol energy balance analysis hardly impartial, Corzine said.

"It's interesting to note that Mr. Pimentel now has ties -- direct ties -- to the petroleum industry," Corzine said. "We continue to offer the chance for debate and we continue to get no response from Mr. Pimentel. The facts are on our side and we will get the energy bill passed by the end of the month."


Several Studies Contradict Pimentel Ethanol Findings
>