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Researchers Confirm Role Of Massive Flood In Climate Change

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phantom power Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-10-06 02:52 PM
Original message
Researchers Confirm Role Of Massive Flood In Climate Change
Climate modelers at the Goddard Institute for Space Studies (GISS) have succeeded in reproducing the climate changes caused by a massive freshwater pulse into the North Atlantic that occurred at the beginning of the current warm period 8,000 years ago. Their work is the first to consistently model the event and the first time that the model results have been validated by comparison to the record of climate proxies that scientists regularly use to study the Earth's past.

"We only have one example of how the climate reacts to changes, the past," said Gavin A. Schmidt, a GISS researcher and co-author on the study. "If we're going to accurately simulate the Earth's future, we need to be able to replicate past events. This was a real test of the model's skill."

(...)

The group used an atmosphere-ocean coupled climate model known as GISS Model E-R to simulate the climate impact of a massive freshwater flood into the North Atlantic that happened about 8,200 years ago after the end of the last Ice Age. As retreating glaciers opened a route for two ancient meltwater lakes known as Agassiz and Ojibway to suddenly and catastrophically drain from the middle of the North American continent.

At approximately the same time, climate records show that the Earth experienced its last abrupt climate shift. Scientists believe that the massive freshwater pulse interfered with the ocean's overturning circulation, which distributes heat around the globe. According to the record of what are known as climate proxies, average air temperatures apparently dropped fell as much as several degrees in some areas of the Northern Hemisphere.

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2006/01/060110091006.htm
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aquart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-10-06 02:55 PM
Response to Original message
1. So the Atlantis story ...true? Noah, so very true.
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phantom power Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-10-06 03:05 PM
Response to Reply #1
2. I have a friend who's convinced that is exactly the case.
If you imagine how much continental shelf was dry land back then, and then imagine sea-side cities (like NYC) out on this continental shelf, and then imagine sea level rising many feet, in 24 hours or so, it all starts to seem pretty plausible. We've just barely begun to scratch the surface of submarine archaeology, so it's not very hard for me to believe that remains of large cities haven't been found yet.

Or, not :-)
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Dogmudgeon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-12-06 04:32 AM
Response to Reply #2
5. What we're actually finding
Off the coasts of Cuba, Japan, and India, what appear to be some kind of megalithic remains have been found. Some of them may simply be columnar rock formations, but many of them show signs of human, not geological, stonework. Oceanographer Robert Ballard has also found some very ancient stuff in the Black Sea, including fossilized wood. Most of these findings are 8 kA (thousands of years) old or more. At that time, the sea level was much lower; 25 kA ago, it was lower by some 150-300 feet, and the Black Sea was little more than a brackish pond. That water was locked up in huge ice sheets covering the Northern Hemisphere and extending Antarctica, some of them several miles thick and as dense as rock.

Of course, all new archeological findings have to be verified (one Japanese researcher was involved in a major fraud on the prehistoric Jomon people a few years ago, and shortly after that, a major expert on Neanderthalensis was found to have been systematically faking artifact dates), but they fit in with speculations about Ice Age era human cultures that may have been more advanced than we're used to thinking have existed. Stories about Atlantis, Hyperborea, etc., may have come from this ancient history. They would naturally have been elaborated over the years, and there is no shortage of modern net wits who make remarks about "mystic lasers", although what we're seeing simply appears to be old, submerged, large-scale stonework.

Here is a précis of some work being done by Massimo Rapisarda, as more and more educated guesses are yielding some amazing finds:
The first traces of obsidian trade in the western Mediterranean are dated 8 thousand years ago, 4 thousand years later than their equivalent in Mesopotamia. Although the trade is chronologically associated to the diffusion of the first farming societies, obsidian was used by homo sapiens almost since his appearance. The presence of an obsidian source at Pantelleria, in a period when Northern Africa was a climatically hospitable region and the Straits of Sicily much narrower and easily navigable, suggest that a settlement in the Straits region during the Ice Age could be a likely hypothesis. Seafaring was born much earlier than agriculture and the trafficking between Tunisia and Sicily could have enriched the settlers, even generating the surplus necessary for the birth of a primordial civilization. At present the conjecture lacks archaeological evidence, however several hints as the distribution of the earliest populations in Sicily, the timing of the Lampedusa colonization and the absence of a Palaeolithic settlement in Pantelleria push towards its soundness. Moreover, since 12 thousand years ago the sea level was about 60 meters lower, finding underwater the missing obsidian source of Pantelleria or whatever settlement remains in the Straits could demonstrate the hypothesis. Intriguingly, the geographical characteristics of the region are the same of Plato’s Atlantis.

Symposium on Mediterranean Archaeology 2005
There were three other presentations on the technical accomplishments of prehistoric Europeans in just the Maritime section alone. Better archeological techniques and technology have pushed the veil of prehistory back very rapidly.

But we know very little about our human ancestors before written history; gene mapping has given us a good idea about who migrated where since the big genetic "bottleneck" when the Toba supervolcano exploded around 76 kA ago, but only stone and fossilized bone artifacts can survive that long. (The artifacts of glassmaking and metallurgy are usually too fragile to survive more than a few millenia, let alone 76 of them!) If there were early stoneworking human cultures, the now-flooded coastal plains would be the first place to look.

The discovery of Homo floresiensis artifacts in Indonesia a few years ago -- the "Hobbits" from about 15 kA ago -- shows that we may have overlooked a lot more of the human record than we can even imagine. I wonder how many other species of Homo were completely wiped out by the Toba event, and whether our own kind made migrations out of Africa before then, only to be killed off by that short, brutal climate change.

The changes that came at the end of the last ice age -- mainly flooding -- might have led to some flood myths, but there are so many flood myths around the world that it's probable more than one flood was involved. And there was a large, long-lived seagoing culture, the Northern Atlantic Maritime culture (click here for an illustrative syllabus from the University of Indiana), that would have been sensitive to such changes in the oceans and seacoasts. The Answer, if it is ever to be found, is likely to be much richer and stranger than our present collection of myths and hypotheses.

Hopefully, we will survive long enough to find it.

--p!
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Dead_Parrot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-10-06 03:20 PM
Response to Reply #1
3. I wonder if they have mystic lasers on Tuvalu? nt
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papau Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-12-06 12:08 PM
Response to Reply #1
6. Not sure "phantom power" was trying to prove Greek or Biblical History
:-)
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phantom power Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-12-06 12:17 PM
Response to Reply #6
7. No, but P's examples are the sort of thing my friend has in mind :-)
Edited on Thu Jan-12-06 12:19 PM by phantom power
The conventional model that humans existed purely as tribal hunter-gatherers prior to 5000 years ago may be false. Cities and agriculture may have been "invented" more than once.

And such an event would almost certainly be the source of all of humanity's Flood-myths.
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papau Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-12-06 12:33 PM
Response to Reply #7
8. I agree -the Black Sea as the "FLOOD" area seems proven -but the
more than once idea is hard to have an opinion on. The non-rock cycle is about 6 million years for all liquid to flush through the core, but obviously we have a fossil record well beyong that.

If an Agi world developed long ago, would not a techie world follow - leaving in the fossil record earlier Moon Missions?

But the streets to nowhere under the seas seems proof of a "recent" water rising and associated Flood(s).
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phantom power Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-12-06 12:39 PM
Response to Reply #8
9. If they had a space program, there would probably be orbital artifacts.
Technically, n-body orbits are not stable as time approaches infinity. LEO orbits might have decayed, but I would expect anything in GSO to remain there for many thousands of years, maybe more. I'm sure somebody who knows orbital mechanics could elaborate.

However, I don't think there's any reason to assume they had to get that far. In terms of tech, they might have gotten as far as ancient Greece, Rome, Egypt, etc.
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hunter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-12-06 04:08 PM
Response to Reply #9
10. If we're up for wild speculations...
...maybe we should do some very detailed scans of the moon. Who knows, maybe some dinosaur race got there before we did?
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Dead_Parrot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-12-06 05:13 PM
Response to Reply #9
11. Fairly unlikely
Although fairly safe from atmospheric drag (the atmosphere effectively ends around 500 miles up: at 22,000 miles geosync. orbits are well out of it), they still get perturbations from the moon going past, which will stuff the orbit up nicely. The lifetime of a comms satellite is normally defined by the amount of fuel onboard to keep it in place: After that, depending on chance and circumstance, it will either de-orbit with a bang of wander off into space.

The places that might be worth a look would be the Lagrange points, which provide naturally stable orbits (SOHO is at one of the Sun-Earth Lagrange points, which is why it has managed to run for over 10 years without "moving".) These naturally collect drifting junk - Like asteroid J002E3, which seems to be a chunk of Apollo 12 - and might have other interesting stuff in them.
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applegrove Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-10-06 04:25 PM
Response to Original message
4. I'm sure many cities have drowned over the years. Alexandria itself
is underwater. But this does sound interesting. If mediterranean went up by 24 feet at the same time as the Atlandtic.
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