Honda to begin production of hydrogen fuel cells for cars and homes

[philb]

claims much more efficient and cost effective than current car engines or home electricity.

Honda to Begin Producing Next Generation FCX Hydrogen Fuel Cell Vehicle

Signaling a rapid advancement in its fuel cell vehicle technology, American Honda Motor Co., Inc., announced that it will begin production in Japan of its next generation FCX hydrogen powered fuel cell vehicle (FCV) in three to four years. The FCX Concept vehicle, unveiled just four months ago and now on display at the North American International Auto Show, boasts a fuel cell system that delivers more power in less space, in a unique, low-floor fuel cell platform. The premium fuel cell sedan offers the ultimate in clean-running performance, and represents Honda's vision of future mobility in which vehicles are less dependent on fossil fuels and produce no significant emissions. Honda's FCX Concept defines a new stage in the evolution of fuel cell vehicle technology. The FCX Concept is designed with a low center of gravity and a full-sized cabin, offering the kind of driving pleasure and roomy interior previously unimaginable in a fuel cell vehicle. The FCX Concept is designed with a short front end to make the most of its unique low-floor platform, creating a comfortably large cabin. A tapered cabin profile and accentuated fender flare create an attractively dynamic look. The FCX Concept is an FCX that delivers style and excitement.

Using an innovative approach, the new, high-efficiency, compact V Flow fuel cell platform makes possible the lowest-floor platform in an FCV ever. Oxygen and hydrogen flow from the top to the bottom of the fuel cell stack (vertical gas flow) and the fuel cells are arranged vertically in the center tunnel (vertebral layout) for new, high-efficiency fuel cell packaging (volume efficiency).

Compact enough to fit neatly into the center tunnel but robust enough to put out 100kW of power, Honda's V Flow fuel cell stack offers space efficiency and high-energy output. The key to fuel cell performance is water management; Honda's new system takes full advantage of gravity to efficiently discharge water formed during electricity generation. This improves performance in sub-zero temperatures, further solving the problem of cold-weather startup that has been a key obstacle to the commercialization of FCV's. Now, with the V Flow fuel cell stack Honda has achieved ultra-low-temperature start-up performance on par with that of a gasoline engine. The FCX Concept drive train features three energy-efficient motors- one 80kW in the front and a 25kW space-efficient motor in each rear wheel, leaving ample room for a spacious cabin.

One barrier to FCV commercialization has been the need for high-capacity yet lightweight and compact hydrogen storage. Honda has now developed a new approach to expanding storage capacity, a newly developed hydrogen absorption material in the tank doubles capacity to 5 kg of hydrogen at 5000 PSI, extending cruising range to 350 miles, equivalent to that of a gasoline-engine car.

Approaching the vehicle, the driver is recognized by vehicle sensors and intelligent cameras unlocking the doors. The driving unit also automatically sets the steering wheel, accelerator pedal, and instrument panel to the optimal position for the driver. The instrument panel tilts up and down 45 degrees in response to vehicle speed to give either a sense of security or a relaxed feel. A system installed in the instrument panel senses the driver's line of sight shifting toward menu icons, and operates switches accordingly, allowing the driver hands-free operation of audio, AC and other systems.

As part of its effort to ensure the viability of a hydrogen-based society, Honda is developing the Home Energy Station (HES), a comprehensive system designed to meet residential energy needs by supplying electricity and heat in addition to hydrogen fuel for vehicles. Generating hydrogen from natural gas supplied for residential use, the HES system also offers consumers the convenience of refueling hydrogen-powered fuel cell vehicles at home. The system is equipped with fuel cells that generate and supply electricity to the home, and is configured to recover the heat produced during power generation for domestic water heating. In addition to reducing carbon dioxide emissions by some 40 percent, the HES system is expected to lower the total running cost of household electricity, gas and vehicle fuel by 50 percent

[davidwparker]

1. I'm hoping when the car I bought 2 years ago needs to be replaced,

I can go to a car like this. I really want to stick it to Saudi Arabia.

[philb]

3. Toyota & other Japanese companies are already starting to produce home

fuel cell systems that produce electricity, heating & cooling, hot water, etc. so one doesn't need to be connected to the grid.
And they are much more efficient than conventional options and don't produce pollution.


April 21, 2005 http://www.jetro.go.jp/en/market/trend/topic/2005_04_nenryodenchi.html

Home-Use Fuel Cells Hit the Market

At a time when fuel cells have already found their way into automobiles and laptops, one-kW systems that generate both electricity and hot water have now become available for home use. The focus at present is systems that use polymer electrolyte fuel cells1 (PEFC). When used in combination with natural gas, for example, PEFCs are among the world's most efficient systems in terms of power generation and heat recovery, making their recent introduction a promising development.

Matsushita Electric Industrial Co., Ebara Ballard Corp., Sanyo Electric Co. and Toshiba Fuel Cell Power Systems Corp. are all developing their own systems. Ebara Ballard is a joint venture between Canada's Ballard Power Systems, the world's leading developer and manufacturer of PEFCs, and Ebara Corp. in Japan. Toshiba Fuel Cell Power Systems sells PEFCs it is developing with UTC Fuel Cells of the United States.

Meanwhile, the power utilities, Tokyo Gas Co. and Osaka Gas Co. have developed technology for high-efficiency, long-life reforming systems that produce hydrogen from natural gas, and Nippon Oil Corp. is developing a system that uses LP gas. Both can be incorporated in PEFCs.

Tokyo Gas pioneered home-use fuel cell cogeneration systems when it launched a line of Matsushita and Ebara Ballard products in February, believing that the time had come to develop the home market for these systems and the latent consumer demand for efficient power-generation systems. The company hopes to be selling tens of thousands of units by around 2008. Other manufacturers and gas companies are considering similar moves.

[davidwparker]

4. That's good to know. Just replaced the heating/cooling system in

the house that I moved into with Trane. It's at least duel-fuel, so that if we ever produce energy from renewable sources, I'm there.

Hmmm. If only Jimmy Carter had another term to do more with solar, etc. Or Al Gore actually got sworn in.

[philb]

10. The Japanese & other Asians will be glad to sell us their more advanced

vehicle and power equipment, but what can we produce to use to pay for it?

[davidwparker]

11. Good question. I thank God everyday that I'm not yet outsourced.

Would be nice if we went back to creating new technologies in this country.

[HysteryDiagnosis]

2. How many times has it been said in here that hydrogen is

a fantasy, a hydrogen energy system a lie, and a hydrogen based economy the ranting of a lunatic??? Glad it's coming along according to plan.

[philb]

5. What will U.S. HVAC & Utilities do in 3 years when Honda has

cars on the market much more efficient and cost effective than current engines,

and as the Japanese companies including Honda start marketing fuel cell systems for homes, businesses, etc.
that are twice as efficient as most current options and produce no pollution?

You can already buy a residential fuel cell system that provides all your energy needs.
And the technology is rapidly expanding.

Such fuel cell systems also operate on landfill gas and sewer gas and other such methane sources, and many of these
are currently going into service in the U.S., Europe, and Japan. I've posted about such before.
These use an energy source that would otherwise be a major liability to produce energy efficiently and will no pollution.
Other than the bad things taken out by filters/reformers.

The reformers can also be used to convert the methane from landfill gas or sewer gas to a good source of fuel for
vehicle fleets such as county school bus fleets or muni bus fleets or muni employee fleets.
We have a lot of landfill gas and sewer gas in the U.S., and these systems are starting to be seen in the more progressive-
with large benefits.

[philb]

7. Would you invest in a coal plant to go into service 6 years from now

and that would have to pay for its investment over the next 30 years?

Whats the chances it would have sufficient need to pay back over the next 30 years?
especially given that global warming and global mercury pollution are clearly serious, and
current coal technology has no means to deal with them.

The Honda options don't have either of those problems.

Its likely that the hydrogen fuel cells also represent the best way to utilize the energy content of coal.

[NNadir]

19. Do you know how much landfill gas and sewage gas exists?

Somehow I doubt it is enough to support an appreciable fraction of US transportation needs.

I don't mean to be scatological, but one can roughly estimate the sewage gas potential by contemplating one's toilet bowl and comparing its volume, adjusting for frequency of use, with a five gallon container of gasoline.

If the capacity is tiny then it is really not illustrative to cite it.

Hydrogen, as it is manufactured now, is an energy shell game. I note that while hydrogen has already been produced from coal on an industrial scale, notably in apartheid era South Africa and in Germany during World War II, this was hardly an environmentally benign technology. Few people in those historical eras had much consideration for the existence of global climate change in any case. The technology for producing hydrogen from coal involves high temperatures and lots of water. If coal itself is used to produce the temperatures, the environmental impact is disastrous.

[4dsc]

20. Hydrogen is still a pipe dream...

Your dreams of a hydrogen based economy and transportation systems is still a pipe dream..

[Dead_Parrot]

6. LOL

So, with all the woes we've had over natural gas supply and prices of late, Honda responds by announcing a system that makes you dependant on it for electricity and transport, as well as heat.

Pure genius.

:popcorn:

[philb]

9. They can use any fossil fuel source as feedstock

But it would also be nice if other renewable technologies like solar thermal, passive solar, solar PV, wind, wave, tide,etc.
continue to progress and make their way into more use.

But the hydrogen fuel cells clearly represent the most efficient and non-polluting way to use fossil fuels while the
other renewable technologies make more progress.

[Dead_Parrot]

12. The question in my mind....

Since methane is CH4, where does the C go in this sort of setup? I don't know enough about the mechanics and chemistry involved to work it out...

I'd agree that hydrogen may offer a solution to transport (they seem to be making inroads on storage - any replacement for platinum yet?) but I'd rather see it done through electrolysis and (insert power source of choice here) than yet more fossil fuels.

[philb]

13. the reformers take out the C, you can do with it what you want

they have technology to produce dry ice(how much is needed and you get CO2 when it melts)
also it could be pumped underground but there would be an expense;
or there may be chemical means to tie it up in stable compounds.

Cyrofuel Systems developed a reformer for cleaning up landfill gas and sewer gas and uses fuel cells to
recover the energy. http://www.epa.gov/lmop/conf/02_northwest/tower.pdf

[Dead_Parrot]

14. Sorry, I meant for a HES-type system

I'm guessing you just get CO2 coming out - not many homes have a large requirement for dry ice or access to a mine...

[xray s]

15. and what do you do with the mercaptans in commercial CH4?

there is sulfur in the gas you get at home too

[philb]

16. they run it through a reformer/filter, and there is residue

[MrTriumph]

8. And GM has just introduced new skin for their old, monster SUVs

When GM hits Congress for a bail-out, we need to be ready to say NO WAY!

[rfkrfk]

17. this is a scam, it is shameful that Honda is involved

twenty, or so, Honda FCX cars have been built

Clue, why is it so important that the car recognize its owner,
when 'fuel cells' are the issue

Show me the fuel cell, first, along with a price list

[philb]

24. Honda is a very serious and competant company- they do a lot

more than make very good cars that are very reliable and the most effecient overall on the market.

Are you suggesting Honda is trying to work a scam? Hardly likely. They don't need to.
They are already manufacturing and selling the fuel cells for residential energy purposes, and seem to be moving
rapidly to do likewise in cars.
Fuel cells are likewise making rapid progress for utility purposes, industrial purposes, and for utilizing landfill and sewer gas
to produce energy. I've posting on that topic before.


But notice that Huandai is already in production on fuel cells to some degree also and making sales in the U.S.
No scam here.

[One_Life_To_Give]

18. By putting a 70KW solar array on my roof.

I would have enough clean energy to fill the tank once a day. Or enough energy to operate a ski boat for 6hrs a week.

I like the idea of using a clean energy carrier, such as hydrogen. But we have a long way to go to generate the amount of clean energy needed to support our choices of lifestyle.

[NNadir]

23. That would only cost you $350,000 at today's prices.

www.solarbuzz.com

A bargain, I think.

[suneel112]

25. Hydrogen is too inefficient

The ultimate car would have a lithium-air battery (not yet developed) that charges directly from electricity. Hydrolysis is only 45 percent efficient (or less), and fuel cells are around 30 - 40 percent efficient. When you consider the total energy input and output, that is a huge waste. And wasted energy is wasted money. Even with the high natural gas costs today, the cheapest way to produce hydrogen is still from natural gas.
The total efficiency for an EV is at least 75 percent. This is not even counting the factories that must be made to produce hydrogen, and the huge pipeline infrastructure that must be built. For electricity, just pop up a few more wind turbines, get some "clean" coal, and put solar panels on roofs or in the desert, and there is a complete solution, without the need for any gas at all.

[Dead_Parrot]

26. "clean" coal?

:shrug: wossat then?

Generating hydrogen from any hydrocarbon leaves the carbon behind, which is the the biggest single problem we're facing, environmentally. That it's all being generated in your garage rather than on the road doesn't make much difference globally. The only readily-available hydrogen compound that doesn't include carbon is water, which makes electrolysis the preferred choice (for me, at any rate)

A solar panel providing power for electrolysis of collected rain water would (subject to maintenance) give you free, emission-free fuel for ever - if we can make it cheap enough for anyone to buy the setup. No pipelines, factories or feedstock needed...

[philb]

21. Hyuandai may be ahead of Honda (Korea) - for use in Calif.

AC Transit to Use Hyundai Fuel Cell Vehicles
January 9, 2006


Chino, California For a five-year demonstration and validation project designed to evaluate fuel cell vehicles and hydrogen infrastructure technologies, Hyundai delivered the first of 10 fuel cell electric vehicles (FCEV) to the Alameda-Contra Costa Transit District (AC Transit), a California public transport group.

AC Transit to Use Hyundai Fuel Cell Vehicles
January 9, 2006


Chino, California For a five-year demonstration and validation project designed to evaluate fuel cell vehicles and hydrogen infrastructure technologies, Hyundai delivered the first of 10 fuel cell electric vehicles (FCEV) to the Alameda-Contra Costa Transit District (AC Transit), a California public transport group.

"Hyundai's partnership with AC Transit represents the first time that a third-party has been involved in our fuel cell vehicle research, and it marks another milestone in our effort to bring this technology to commercialization," explains Dr. Won Suk Cho, president, Hyundai America Technical Center, which is responsible for alternative fuel research in the U.S.

"Our vehicles will be operating in real-world working environments every day proving the viability of this technology," he added.

This year Chevron opened its first-ever hydrogen energy station at the Hyundai America Technical Center (HATCI) in Chino, California. In addition to HATCI and AC Transit, transport fleets will also be placed at Southern California Edison and U.S. Army facilities in Detroit to develop and implement a practical, business-based hydrogen energy infrastructure and associated technologies.

AC Transit has been named "National Clean Bus Leader" for its advanced environmental technology initiatives.

[trekbiker]

22. any idea on retail prices for these systems?

also, my understanding of platinum is that it's a very expensive and limited resource. Has Honda developed a fuel cell that doesnt require platinum?

if true and economic this is a good development but I think practical PHEV's running on gas or diesel will be here in quantity long before fuel cell vehicles.

[philb]

27. Fuel Cells Could Save USAF Money

Fuel Cells Could Save USAF Money

Ten new five-kilowatt fuel cells in operation at Robins Air Force Base (Georgia) could save the Air Force thousands of dollars in energy costs.
The fuel cells, located at the base ground water treatment plant, have been operating since early October. Base officials unveiled the new alternative fuel source on December 1.
The cells, which re-form propane gas and extract hydrogen to produce electricity, are part of Robins' Fuel Cell Micro-grid project, known as the Common Core Power Production, or C2P2, program.
This is part of a year-long Department of Defense and Air Force program to seek alternative, environmentally-sound fuel sources for troops in deployed locations and backup power sources for stateside bases.
The manufacturer Plug Power Inc. of New York is working with Logan Energy Corp. of Atlanta and the Army Corps of Engineers Research and Development Center and others on the project.

[rfkrfk]

28. this is a sham, 20 FCXs were built

there is always at least one show stopper,
to put a fuelcell in a car, could be one or more of...

too much platinum
way too hot, or otherwise dangerous
limited service life
efficiency is crap, in real use
too big

a fuel cell car does not need accentuated fender flair,
it needs a fuel cell