USA TODAY LEAD ARTICLE POINTS OUT ETHANOL CHEAPER THAN GAS AND

[JohnWxy]

available right now! Bush talked like we have to wait 6 yrs for cellulosic ethanol to be made practical before we hav any alternative fuels. That of course is not true. We should be making ethanol more available right now. This would create more demand and lead to increase in production. Article points out ethanol cheaper and more efficient to produce than gasoline!

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=115x41012


Ethanol production does not compete with food production. Actually, one of the bi-products they extract when making ethanol is protein which is used as feed supplement for cattle since only the starch is used in the making of ethanol.


USA TODAY article

Ethanol fuel — in the form of E85, a mix of 85% grain alcohol and 15% gasoline — is the only one of those immediately available(I think they meant to say: "only one of those immediately available" as Ethanol 10% "Gasohol" is also currently available). E85, using ethanol made in the USA from corn, isn't a science experiment or pipe dream. It's real fuel, sold now, and 5 million vehicles already are on the road with the systems needed to burn it.

Though they cost at least an extra $150 each to manufacture, they are often priced the same as conventional gas-only vehicles. You'd probably not even notice if you bought one.

Ford says the 5 million FFVs already on the road, if fueled exclusively by E85, would cut petroleum use more than 10 million gas-electric hybrid Escapes would. General Motors, pledging to build more than 400,000 FFVs annually starting this year, says a barrel of oil is saved for every 37 gallons of E85 used.

Gasohol: Common name for fuel that's 10% ethanol, 90% gasoline. It's widely available and can be used by most vehicles.

(i.e. if you can find gasohol you can use it in any car that burns gasoline and be reducing your gas consumption by about 10% immediately, and you do not have to buy a new FFV vehicle, or spend thousands extra to buy a hybrid vehicle!!-JW)

BTW E85 goes for about $2.10 a gal while gas mid grade is about $2.35-2.45 and premium grade about $2.55 a gallon.


One thing they got wrong is that FFV can be set up to take advantagae of E85's higher octane than gasoline (Ethanol: 105, gasoline Premium Grade: 92-93] and get JUST AS GOOD AS MILEAGE as gasoline powered cars. Saab (GM owned) makes a 9-5 Bio-Fuel FFV car that uses Turbo charging and variable valve timing to take advantage of Ethanol85's higher octane and it gets just as good mileage as a gasoline powered car.


more on ethanol:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=115&topic_id=35706&mesg_id=35706

[liberal N proud]

1. Here it comes, all the attacks on Ethanol

The nay sayers will all come running in and tell you that it takes a gallon of oil to make a gallon of ethanol and all that bull this propaganda.
And then they will tell you that you can't get the mileage out of it that you do gas and it will cost more.... The list goes on.

If I could buy ethanol here in Ohio, I would right now. The beauty of using ethanol is that we already have the supply system in place, it can go right in the tanks at the current gas stations and the cars today can burn it just the same as gasoline.
Damn a renewable resource, we can't have that, now can we?

[Boo Boo]

2. The price is partially a function of demand. If everybody started using

E85, I doubt it wouldn't be 2.10 a gallon. I sorta wonder if there would even be enough to go around. I'm also wondering which fuel actually has lower production costs at this point. I suspect that plain old gas is still cheaper to produce, but that prices are kept high by restricting supply. That's not a knock against E85; if I were in the market for a new car, both hybrid technology and FFV technology would be on my list of things to look for.

Dead Horse Beating: variable valve timing is common, and has nothing to do with taking advantage of higher octane. Many (most?) other auto manufacturers produce engines that use variable valve timing and have been for some time now. Ford, Honda, Toyota, VW/Audi, Nissan, Porsche... the list goes on. It is not related to E85. It is not related to octane.

[JohnWxy]

3. There isn't enough to go around right now. But if demand was there

the supply would increase. Actually, for the next several years I think emphasis should be on Ethanol 15 or gasohol (10%ethanol). But that is why I am writing about ethanol. We need to have a formal policy to push the availability and production to get the volume up and keep the price down.

It's a chicken or the egg thing. That's why we have programs to suppport introduction of promising, worthwhile technologies, to accelerate the process of getting them more economic and more available.