Democratic Underground Latest Greatest Lobby Journals Search Options Help Login
Google

Nuclear Reactor Shut Down in Florida

Printer-friendly format Printer-friendly format
Printer-friendly format Email this thread to a friend
Printer-friendly format Bookmark this thread
This topic is archived.
Home » Discuss » Topic Forums » Environment/Energy Donate to DU
 
struggle4progress Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-31-06 10:31 PM
Original message
Nuclear Reactor Shut Down in Florida
© 2006 The Associated Press

FLORIDA CITY, Fla. — One of two reactors at the Turkey Point nuclear plant was shut down Friday after damaged equipment was discovered during a routine inspection, officials said.

Florida Power & Light, the state's largest electric utility, and the Nuclear Regulatory Commission declined to elaborate on what was damaged or how bad the damage was, citing security reasons ...

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/ap/nation/3762888.html

Expect more like this in the future. Nuclear power was created in conjunction with the national security state, and a number of advocates still fondly remember the secrecy of the old Atomic Energy Commission ...
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
Redstone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-31-06 10:33 PM
Response to Original message
1. And you'd prefer what? More coal-burning plants?
Redstone
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
SnoopDog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-31-06 10:34 PM
Response to Reply #1
2. I prefer solar cells, wind, and geothermal...
Someday people will 'get it'... and accept it.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Ian David Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-31-06 10:35 PM
Response to Reply #1
3. We could just burn the Republicans? n/t
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Redstone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-31-06 10:36 PM
Response to Reply #3
4. That's funny. A lot of them are pretty greasy, and should burn well.
Redstone
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
struggle4progress Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-31-06 10:38 PM
Response to Reply #1
5. I'd prefer transparency, for starters. "Trust us" doesn't cut it. eom
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
philb Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-02-06 12:08 AM
Response to Reply #1
21. Here's an option most haven't thought about; 75% efficient & no pollution
Plug Power and Honda Prep for Next Phase of Home Energy Station
March 23, 2006
Latham, New York The first of two agreements announced by Plug Power with Honda R&D Company, Ltd. of Japan covers the fourth consecutive phase of joint development of the Home Energy Station, a fuel cell system that provides electricity, heat, and hot water to a home or business, while also providing hydrogen fuel for a fuel cell vehicle. The system offers high reliability along with much higher efficiency and lower pollution than standard service. Under this new agreement, Honda R&D will continue to fund Plug Power's work on the Home Energy Station.

The agreements represent a continuation of earlier collaborative efforts between the two companies, after having completed the previous phase in November 2005 with the commissioning of the third-generation Home Energy Station at Honda R&D America's facility in Torrance, California. It is 30 percent smaller in size than its predecessor, with 25 percent more power output, greater hydrogen storage capacity, higher efficiency and faster startup. The continued phase-over-phase improvement trend is expected to continue with Phase 4.

The second new agreement is focused on fundamental R&D work that Plug Power is conducting under funding from Honda. This agreement is focused on the advancement of technology for future Home Energy Stations, as well as more generalized applications, which are expected to benefit other Plug Power products. The system is expected to be more environmentally friendly than traditional energy devices due to its higher efficiency and lower emissions.

Runs on natural gas, propane, sewer gas, landfill gas, etc.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Mika Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-31-06 10:40 PM
Response to Original message
6. Ah yes.. to keep you secure we can't tell you what is wrong.
Freedom on the march!

:banghead:

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
struggle4progress Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-01-06 08:55 PM
Response to Reply #6
17. Hole in pipe caused shut down of U.S. power plant
FLORIDA CITY, Florida (AP) - The damage that led to the shut down of one of two nuclear reactors at a Florida power plant was a hole in a pipe that helps maintain pressure, Florida Power & Light officials said Saturday.

One day after the Turkey Point nuclear reactor had been shut down for a routine refueling, investigators are trying to determine if the hole was drilled accidentally or deliberately ...

http://thestar.com.my/news/story.asp?file=/2006/4/2/apworld/20060402072337&sec=apworld
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
bbinacan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-31-06 10:42 PM
Response to Original message
7. The French are the
best at nuclear power generation. If we go that way, we need to look to them.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
kestrel91316 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-31-06 10:50 PM
Response to Reply #7
8. Hell will freeze over before the US looks to France for anything other
than great wine and cheese.

You know how John Q. Public is.............
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
bbinacan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-31-06 11:07 PM
Response to Reply #8
9. Sadly so. n/t
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
jpak Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-01-06 05:43 PM
Response to Reply #7
12. France exploited its former African colonies to
supply itself with uranium.

Niger and Gabon gained very little from French exploitation and depletion of their natural resources - and they now have to deal with the legacy of French uranium mining.

I do not think this is a model the US should follow...
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
JohnWxy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-01-06 05:57 PM
Response to Reply #7
13. that Concorde thing was a brilliant move too, huh?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
NNadir Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-01-06 06:54 AM
Response to Original message
10. Does the number of people killed in this equipment failure match Mexico's
dead coal miners?

You know, these 65 dead that I can't get anyone to care about:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=115&topic_id=43122&mesg_id=43122

Do you care whether we should expect more of this as well? You don't?

Why am I not even remotely surprised.

Have you discovered risk free energy yet?

You haven't?

Why am I not even remotely surprised.

You have, as usual, no information other than a vague newspaper report.

Let's see the oceans are acidic, the climate is collapsing, tens of thousands of people die each year in coal related accidents, air pollution kills millions each year, droughts destroy entire nations and cause them to decend into war, and what do you care about? A perfunctory report that a routine inspection turns up a flaw as it should and the people in charge of the plant wait to restart the plant as they should.

The moral irony here is pretty telling and pretty clear.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
struggle4progress Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-01-06 12:06 PM
Response to Reply #10
11. So secrecy at Turkey Point is saving Mexican miners' lives?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
NNadir Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-01-06 05:58 PM
Response to Reply #11
14. Nuclear power is saving lives.
Every nuclear plant displaces coal.

Over a billion tons of carbon dioxide per year.

Anyone who opposes nuclear power has the blood of miners on their hands.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
struggle4progress Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-01-06 06:35 PM
Response to Reply #14
15. No evidence that nuclear plants have displaced coal in the US ...
Here's a plot from EIA, showing historical coal consumption by the electric power industry, which show that utility coal consumption actually increased significantly during the era of nuclear plant construction:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
NNadir Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-01-06 08:11 PM
Response to Reply #15
16. Really? Suppose they closed all the world's nuclear plants as you wish.
Edited on Sat Apr-01-06 08:14 PM by NNadir
What would they displace them with?

You don't know? You don't care?

Since you don't know how to do comparisons, you must miss, that Amory Lovins oracles aside, electrical consumption has been increasing. The fact that coal consumption is increasing is a reflection of this fact.

Once again this is merely an attempt by anti-nuclear activists to attempt to make their prophecies self-fulfilling. The fact that nuclear production has increased by a factor of three since 1980 is in spite of fraudulent, increasingly twisted and bizarre representations that it is somehow less safe than fossil fuels.

The Unites States should be like France, where more than 70% of the power is nuclear. Since the United States, to satisfy the purely negative mythology of anti-nuclear misrepresentations (The bolt was loose! The paper was misfiled!) has not expanded it's nuclear capacity as fast as it should have, and thus is in deep environmental shit. What to I mean, by the way, by purely negative. What I mean is that there is not one, as in zero, anti-nuclear activists who can point to a positive ability to displace fossil fuels by greenhouse gas free fuels.

It is easy to make representations about imperfect things, especially if you take no action yourself. You want to shut nuclear power stations. But you cannot produce an acceptable form of energy that will displace them. Because you are unable to do this, because you cannot point to a case where the embrace of a greenhouse gas free form of energy has displaced fossil fuels in an industrial economy, as I can point to France, you are merely engaged in wishful thinking.

The fact is that the numbers for coal consumption are not modeled by the United States, where small minded distractable anti-human "activists" have been asserting mystical nonsense about nuclear power that for a while prevented the building of new nuclear plants, with the result that the improved production has simply resulted from improved operations.

The place where nuclear energy provides the bulk of the power, instead, is best exemplified by France. France has more than halved it's reliance on coal since 1980, and now uses it chiefly to make steel.

Here is the coal consumption of every country on earth:

http://www.eia.doe.gov/pub/international/iealf/table14.xls

Here is the electrical consumption of every nation on earth:

http://www.eia.doe.gov/pub/international/iealf/table62.xls

Note that France increased electricity use by 182%, whereas the United States increased by 175%, a smaller amount.

Here is the nuclear production of every nation on earth:

http://www.eia.doe.gov/pub/international/iealf/table27.xls

And here is the carbon intensity of every nation on earth:

http://www.eia.doe.gov/pub/international/iealf/tableh1gco2.xls

I have sorted this list many times to show that with the exception of Norway, which has huge hydroelectric capacity and a small population, the leading 5 industrial nations with low carbon intensity are all nations with significant nuclear producing capability. They are Switzerland, Sweden (both of which also has significant hydroelectric capacity) Japan, Norway and France. Specifically Switzerland produces 50% of it's power by nuclear means; Switzerland produces 40%; Japan 35%, and France more than 70%. By contrast, the United States, which you so foolishly pose as an example, produces only about 20% of its electricity by nuclear means. I note that in the United States no one ever protests a coal plant, and most of the attention paid to coal operations is just pefunctory lip service, requiring prompting.

Put that in your fantasy pipe and smoke it, bub.

And while you're smoking whatever it is your smoking (since you don't give a shit about things like particulates, carbon monoxide, and other combustion products) please be aware that what you are really after is not France, not Switzerland, but Chad, which has the lowest carbon intensity on earth. What you are arguing for is a world dominated by poverty and, as is self evident, ignorance.

I suspect that indeed you will get what you wish for.

It is probably too late for nuclear power to save your ass and the asses of whatever fringe still buys your antiquated argument. The 1970's are over, and good riddance. It is time for seriousness. In fact, the world has rejected anti-nuclear hysteria, and is building nuclear capacity anew on an exajoule scale. (I have noted elsewhere that the single new nuclear plant that came on line last month in Japan produces more energy than the solar industry in the entire United States.) I suspect that this is too little too late, for while you have been paying atttention to the forms filled out in nuclear power plants, and running through silly scenarios in the face of dire realities, the earth's climate is rapidly collapsing.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
struggle4progress Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-01-06 09:07 PM
Response to Reply #16
18. Course, France hain't decided what to do with the waste.
France Proposes Draft Law on Nuclear Waste

By CHRISTINE OLLIVIER
Updated: 12:46 p.m. ET March 22, 2006

PARIS - The French government submitted a draft law to parliament Wednesday on how to deal with nuclear waste, angering environmental groups with proposed measures to bury radioactive refuse.

France is more dependent on nuclear energy than any other country and already has more than 1.05 million cubic meters (35 million cubic feet) of nuclear waste. France also has nuclear weapons, and imports waste from nuclear warheads and reactors in the United States and other countries for reprocessing. <snip>

Currently, 85 percent of France's radioactive waste is stored in two storage sites, one in the Manche region on the English Channel and the other in the Aube region southeast of Paris. The remaining 15 percent _ which includes the most highly radioactive materials _ are in temporary facilities around the country. <snip>

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/11960633/from/RL.4/

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
NNadir Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-01-06 09:27 PM
Response to Reply #18
19. And your proposal for coal waste is what?
Edited on Sat Apr-01-06 09:29 PM by NNadir
You think that by saying "waste" and saying "nuclear" in the same sentence makes so called "nuclear waste" dangerous.

You cannot produce one person who has died from spent nuclear fuel in France, or the United States, for that matter.

Millions of people on the other hand die from fossil fuel waste, which is simply dumped into the air with few restrictions.

The most serious form of "waste" is in fact, carbon dioxide, or do you deny that? Do you? Let me ask you explicitly. Is carbon dioxide "waste?" Do you know how to solve the problem of carbon dioxide, or does your entire rap consist of negatives about nuclear energy and no positives for any other form of energy, including the fossil energy you excuse?

Once again, you are making an argument that depends wholly upon your attention. You are once again arguing that alone among energy forms, nuclear energy must be risk free. By so doing, once again, you are excusing forms of energy that have demonstrably higher risks.

www.externe.info

Because of the high mass density of nuclear materials it is the only form of exajoule scale energy side products with a potential solution. There is no such solution for any other form of energy. I note that even the silt from hydroelectric stations, a relatively benign form of waste, is highly problematic. But the situation with fossil fuels is much, much, much, much, much worse, as the carbon dioxide crisis that is happening right now puts all humanity - all living things really - in extreme danger, although to listen to you, it's not any problem whatsoever. What's important to you is paperwork.

I have to say this often, even though it is obvious: There is no such thing as risk free energy. There is only risk minimized energy. That energy is nuclear energy.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
struggle4progress Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-02-06 12:04 AM
Response to Reply #19
20. Of course, if you are concerned about air pollution, then you should ..
certainly work on air pollution issues. Plenty of people for years have been upset that the Clean Air Act was never fully enforced and that existing antique plants continue to win endless deferrals for compliance.

There is no simple fix for our environmental problems. Your pro-nuclear polemics have ZERO effect on air quality, and there's no reason to think that building a new generation of reactors would magically reduce coal-fired plant emissions: in many cases, the same people own both kinds of facilities and are interested in squeezing the maximum profit from all their investments.


Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
NNadir Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-02-06 06:53 AM
Response to Reply #20
22. I guess then are unable to answer the question.
Edited on Sun Apr-02-06 06:54 AM by NNadir
What a surprise.

The question was this: With what would you replace the nuclear capacity?

You have no means whatsoever of dealing with carbon dioxide. You simply assert nonsense that nuclear energy has no effect on air pollution. Then you offer some non sequitur about profits.

Actually this conversation has nothing to do with some socialistic magic. It is a technical matter involving chemistry and physics. Further I note that you are extremely weak on offering any kind of solution to any kind of environmental problem. Most of the threads on this thread raise specious objections to nuclear power exclusively. Further you cannot produce a single post demonstrating that these events are anywhere comparable to the ordinary events connected with fossil fuels, which you ignore.

As to whether or not my pronuclear polemics will have any effect, I think you are ignoring the fact that I am hardly alone. I'm just a tiny cog in a wheel that is finally gathering huge momentum, again on an exajoule scale. There are many 100's of millions of people who are pronuclear energy, many of them on the grounds that air pollution, specifically that form of air pollution known as global climate change, is a serious matter. Maybe you think the appropriate solution is to throw up your hands and say "it's too complex," but there are many people who can grasp complex issues. In fact, nuclear engineering programs are complex programs, but there are people who are quite smart enough to do them. Thank goodness that there are still many people smart enough to comprehend nuclear engineering.

In any case, your claim that nuclear power displaces no coal is purely a hallucination and I will not further dignify it with a response.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DU AdBot (1000+ posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to view 
this author's profile Click to add 
this author to your buddy list Click to add 
this author to your Ignore list Thu Apr 18th 2024, 07:08 PM
Response to Original message
Advertisements [?]
 Top

Home » Discuss » Topic Forums » Environment/Energy Donate to DU

Powered by DCForum+ Version 1.1 Copyright 1997-2002 DCScripts.com
Software has been extensively modified by the DU administrators


Important Notices: By participating on this discussion board, visitors agree to abide by the rules outlined on our Rules page. Messages posted on the Democratic Underground Discussion Forums are the opinions of the individuals who post them, and do not necessarily represent the opinions of Democratic Underground, LLC.

Home  |  Discussion Forums  |  Journals |  Store  |  Donate

About DU  |  Contact Us  |  Privacy Policy

Got a message for Democratic Underground? Click here to send us a message.

© 2001 - 2011 Democratic Underground, LLC