I want to change my 2003 Ford Focus to Flexfuel, if the price is reason-

[European Socialist]

able. Is the ethanol industry pushing a program to do this sort of thing?

[Rude Horner]

1. I don't think so, unfortunately

This is from Wikipedia's website:

After-market conversions
After-market conversion kits, for converting standard engines to operate on E85, are generally not legal in U.S. states subject to emissions controls, unless you get your converted vehicle independently EPA certified. This is despite the fact that the exhaust emissions from any such converted cars are improved by utilizing higher percentages of ethanol in the gasoline blend. Unfortunately, EPA certification costs in excess of $23,000 and you additionally have to prove that your vehicle will maintain low emissions for at least 50,000 miles after the conversion. Most individuals won't give up their vehicles for the requisite 50,000 mile test period. Ethanol can be made out of pretty much anything grown on a farm and of what livestock eat. Likewise, conversion kit manufacturers generally don't certify their kits due to the onerous and expensive burden of these laws. The kits would have to be tested with every model vehicle for which they are to be sold. If a kit is already certified as described, the EPA Federal Test Procedure for an individual's conversion costs $750.00. One can request a reduction of payment of down to 1% of the car's added retail value due to the conversion. A minimum fee may apply if the value added is not seen to be very high.

Similarly, U.S. Federal law prohibits the manufacture of many such conversion kits for sale in the U.S. unless they are EPA certified. The origin of this ban dates to when conversion kits for using compressed natural gas were originally sold. The ban was enacted to prevent the sale of such conversion kits due to safety concerns. This ban on the manufacture of kits is at odds with the fact that these kits, once existing, are legal in all states but CA, and most states offer some sort of tax break for converting your vehicle (See tax breaks.) One Brazilian after-market kit is available legally in US States that do not have restrictive emission controls.
**********

I guess I'd check into it anyway. Maybe there is newer info out there, since E85 is gaining (slowly) in popularity. My new car runs on it and I love it.

[European Socialist]

3. sounds a little too complicated--thanks for info.

[JohnWxy]

6. RE slow movement on E85, (or ethanol at any %age - you might consider

going to these sites. One provides a pettition to sign supporting further availability of E85 stations (something which the oil industry is dragging it's feet up their knees over). The oil industry says it will cost $200,000 per station. MOre realistic estimates put it at $30,000 per station.


Ethanol Petition - Help Establish More E85 Pumps and Stations in Communities Throughout the Nation

Barak Obama and Lugar introducing Renewable Fuels legislation.

Obama and Lugar introduce 'American Fuels Act'
Posted by David Roberts at 12:58 PM on 17 Mar 2006>

U.S. Senators Barack Obama (D-IL) and Richard Lugar (R-IN) Friday said that they have introduced comprehensive legislation that will use alternative fuel technologies to greatly decrease America's dependence on foreign oil.

"For all of our military might and economic dominance, the Achilles' heel of the most powerful country on Earth is still the oil we cannot live without," said Obama. "I could give you all plenty of reasons why it's a good idea for this country to move away from an oil-based economy, but all we really need to know about the danger of our oil addiction comes directly from words spoken by Osama bin Laden: 'Focus your operations on oil, especially in Iraq and the Gulf area, since this will cause them to die off .'"

Obama and Lugar's bipartisan legislation, the American Fuels Act of 2006 (S. 2446), would take a four-step approach to reducing America's dependence on foreign oil. First, the legislation would spur investment in alternative fuels by increasing the production of cellulosic biomass ethanol (CBE) to 250 million gallons by 2012. It would also create an Alternative Diesel Standard that will require 2 billion gallons of alternatives diesels be mixed into the 40 billion gallon annual national diesel pool by 2015. This proposal is modeled of the Renewable Fuels Standard, which has proved successful in increasing ethanol production and use.

Second, the legislation would help increase consumer demand for alternative fuels by providing a short-term, 35 cents per gallon tax credit for E85 fuel and by providing automakers with a $100 tax credit for every E85-capable Flexible Fuel Vehicle (FFV) produced.

Third, it would require the U.S. government to lead by example and increase access to alternative fuels by requiring the government to allow public access to alternative fueling stations located on federal government property and by requiring that only clean buses be eligible for federal cost sharing. It would also create establish a Department of Defense "fly-off competition" that would encourage private sector companies to compete to find the most energy efficient alternatives fuels for defense purposes.

Finally, the legislation would create a Director of Energy Security to oversee and keep America focused on its goal of energy independence. The Director of Energy Security would serve as the principal advisor to the President, the National Security Council, the National Economic Council and the Homeland Security Council.

"This bill will help tilt our energy balance toward alternative fuels, moving these fuels into additional markets and making them more widely available for consumers," said Lugar. "We believe that U.S. national security will be served by more robust coordination of all the elements that contribute to energy security. Consequently, the bill also would establish the post of Director of Energy Security, who would answer to the President. Our policies should be targeted to replace hydrocarbons with carbohydrates. Obviously this is not a short-term proposition, but we can off-set a significant portion of demand for oil by giving American consumers a real choice of automotive fuel. We must end oil's near monopoly on the transportation sector, which accounts for 60 percent of American oil consumption. I am pleased to join Sen. Obama in promoting this legislation and appreciate his initiative in drafting it."

Also, go to www.congress.org where they make it easy to send an email to your Congressmen telling them how important it is that we, as a nation, start preparing for the coming oil supply disruption. The Republican "plan" is NOT to plan, wait for disaster and then do something stupid and in a panic. We need to mobilize and start building renewable fuels (ethanol, bio-diesel NOW, NOt after the oil disruption hits.

Don't think your email won't make a difference. IT can and it WILL. (Plus, you'll feel better for having taken a little bit of trouble to get involved in a solution, REally!)

[Strelnikov_]

2. Only In Sweden

http://www.greencarcongress.com/2005/07/ford_introduces.html

Ford has introduced its new generation Focus Flexi-Fuel, plus, for the first time, a Flexi-Fuel version of the Ford Focus C-MAX in Sweden this week.

Working closely with the Swedish Flexi-Fuel Buyers’ Consortium, a conglomeration of public organizations, commercial enterprises and private individuals, Ford was the first manufacturer to offer ethanol-powered vehicles in a European market. Ford has sold more than 15,000 Focus Flexi-Fuels in Sweden since the model’s introduction in 2001. In 2003 and 2004, more than 80% of alternative fuel cars sold in Sweden were Focus Flexi-Fuels.

As flex-fuel vehicles (FFV), the Foci can run on both an 85% ethanol blend (E85) and gasoline or any mix of both in one fuel tank.

Ford made three primary changes to the conventional Focus models to support flex-fuel operation.

* The valves and valve seats of the 1.8-liter 16-valve gasoline engine are made of especially hardened material.

* The engine control software senses the respective ratio of bio-ethanol and gasoline present in the fuel tank and adjusts the injection and ignition map accordingly.

* The cylinder block has particularly effective pre-heating once the temperature decreases below -15ºC (+5ºF) to support the less-positive cold-starting characteristics of ethanol compared to gasoline.

My understanding is that the cost to a manufacturer is ~$150 to incorporate flex fuel. Cost of a conversion, no idea, but I doubt that it is not trivial without a kit of some sort. There was a college in Minnesota where they conducted a test running E85 in a Prius. I also understand, for an engine with a carburetor, one could simply adjust floats/jets/timing, although this would not permit adjust to the actual ratio of dino/ethanol. Time to find some old VW bugs?

Shame, isn't it.

On Edit: Did you note the Ford Focus Diesel? Like Uncle Dick said "Conservation may be a sign of personal virtue but it is not a sufficient basis for a sound, comprehensive energy policy." I guess the Chimp meant it when he said "We need an energy policy that encourages consumption." Can't have fuel efficient/alt fuel vehicles sold in Merica now, can we.

Focus Diesel (In England):
http://uk.cars.yahoo.com/car-reviews/car-and-driving/ford-focus-tdci-range-1004539.html

[rfkrfk]

4. try using half 'n half

E85 and gasoline

but start with less E85 than that

[KingM34]

5. re: flex fuel

Given that it's very cheap to make them flex fuel in the first place and given that there's at least a 50/50 chance that the ethanol portion of fuel will be increasing steadily over the next few years, this really should be mandated that all new cars are flex fuel.

[JohnWxy]

7. Both GM and Ford are selling millions of FFVs now. Here is another way to

focus your desire to make AMerica stronger (less dependent on mid-East oil, improve balance of payments - strengthen economy) - Demand greater availability of E85 stations.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=115x53251#53292


If E85 were more available that would contribute to reducing imports of foriegn oil. Actually, i'm in favor of just increasing the availability of ethanol 10%- 15%. That way, everybody driving a gasoline powered car could start contributing to decreasing our imports of foreign oil. But the oil companies will never do it until forced to. (actually, because of the toxicity of MTBE, they are now in the process of replacing MTBE with ethanol! This in itself will mean all gasoline will be 6% -10% ethanol (depending on location) anyway.

I think, given the chance, people would buy all the ethanol 10% (or E85) they could produce. Most people are sick of sending money to the mid-East and enriching Exxon-MObils executives. I know I AM! This is the ONLY way to really reduce the cost of gasoline. Substitute another fuel and thus incrrease the supply, then you will (in time) see the gasoline price start to move down.

Send an email to your congressmen. It may not seem like much compared to the millions and millions of dollars going to the Repubs from Big Oil and Gas, but you never know, your one email might be the one that finally starts the the crack in the dam.

People can make a difference. I believe this.

[NickB79]

8. LOL, GM and Ford are selling millions of E85 trucks and SUV's

This does nothing to help reduce our oil addiction, and makes it worse by perpetuating the belief that the average driver needs a big truck or SUV. Now, if there were a high-mpg vehicle that ran off E85, there could be an argument made for it. But as things stand, the US automakers are using E85 as a greenwash to make themselves look more environmentally friendly.

[JohnWxy]

9. ANy vehicle which can burn ethanol is dispacing gasoline. This does

reduce gasoline demand. Keep in mind, for many people a compact car is not an option. They need a full size car or pick-up. I think having FFVs available to those buyers is a start.

That said...GM and Ford and Chrysler, other than a couple small pick-ups and MInivans, do not have any small, compact cars which are FFVs. BUT, keep in mind there are not many E85 stations around either. Why is that? Oil & Gas contributions to Repubs. The oil industry has worked very effectively to keep ethanol out of the picture. They are not very enthusiastic about a fuel that they don't control entirely themselves.