I need a FReeper/Faux talking point refuted

[XemaSab]

"But all the planets are warming up."

Any takers? :shrug:

Edit: since the question seems to be misunderstood, I mean that said moran was using this as an argument that humans aren't causing global warming, since global warming is happening on uninhabited planets too.

[evlbstrd]

1. Which planets

has the freeper visited recently?

[pooja]

2. so are pollution is far reaching... maybe all those damn

satellites up there are putting are cluttering the rest of the solar system.

[Wetzelbill]

3. which planets and which ones have human life?

[tuvor]

4. What, they're too lazy to offer proof?

[XemaSab]

5. The cited source was NASA

and the planets named by said moran were "all the planets in the solar system."

[tuvor]

8. Well, if they provided a link from NASA saying all planets are warming...

...that's pretty hard to refute.

[NNadir]

11. What kind of citation exactly?

A journal article? A website? A statement from him that says "NASA says?"

Generally I find that the more remote an argument is from the original scientific source, the more spectacularly it is misinterpreted.

It is certainly true that Venus has heated up, if your timescale if three and a half billion years. (Of course, Venus is the planet that informs us the most about the greenhouse effect, since it is a runaway effect there.)

Somehow I don't think there is a credible statement "from NASA" that says "all the planets are heating up."

[XemaSab]

12. "NASA says...."

Like I said, he was a moran.

But not being armed with a handy refutation, I had to leave him in his idiocy.

[NNadir]

13. Here's what I might have said, depending on the situation...

"I very much doubt that NASA has said any such thing. However as an educated person, I always look forward to being corrected if my apprehensions are wrong. If you can produce a reference to this claim, I would love to evaluate it..."

That might have ended the matter, for now, and in the future as well.

[XemaSab]

16. Word

The only reference I can find to warming on Mars has to do with future terraforming of Mars using PFC's to blanket the planet with enough warmth that CO2 trapped in the soil can volatilize and accelerate warming so we can turn it into a habitable planet in 800 years.

Good times.

[WestHoustonDem]

6. How about our planet will become uninhabitable during our

children's lifetimes?

[MadAsHellNewYorker]

7. wow, I didn't know we had human colonies on all the other planets

in the solar system. Nor did I realize that if all of humanity died off on earth, it would be fine cause, you know, we are already living on all the other planets

[GreenPartyVoter]

9. I would think NASA would have info on this

[BOSSHOG]

10. The issue isn't that planets are warming up

The issue is with man's assistance, the earth is warming up at a greater pace than if only nature were running its course. No doubt assisted greatly by the hot air spewed by all the "conservative" dumbasses in this country who choose not to know anything because they believe so much.

[oscar111]

14. ORBITING SUNSHADE, ARTIFICIAL CLOUDS, ETC. cool regardless of cause

does NOT matter if nature or man is the cause.

there are cures for warming that cool our planet irregardless of the cause. Sadly, Kyoto is slow to never. We need to start other methods in addition to Kyoto.

CBS report on Lawrence fed. laboratory source, details some other solutions.

Laser knocking dust off of the moon is a cheap one.. or artificial clouds of harmless... we hope.. dust shot up into low situation, is another.

link ...

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2001/01/15/archive/main264362.shtml

snip
One solution envisions blasting tiny particles into the atmosphere from the guns of battleships. The particles would deflect enough sunlight to trigger global cooling.

Another falls under the category of "geo-engineering": launching 50,000 mirrors into orbit to reflect sunlight back into space.


Ken Caldeira....

"My first thoughts about this was that it simply wouldn't work," he says.

Then he ran the computer models, Caldeira says.

"Much to our surprise, our model results indicated that geo-engineering schemes would move our climate back to what it was before," he says.

[Karmakaze]

15. Ok I belive it is yet another freeper misunderstanding..

First of all I couldnt find anything that said ALL planets are heating up, nor would I expect to. Why? Simply becasue we do not have any way of measuring such changes on most planets.

The ONE planet I did find where NASA said there might be climate change going on is Mars. Think about that for a moment. The Martian atmopshere contains a LOT of carbon dioxide. In any case:

"While we have always thought the climate of Mars has changed over time, this is direct evidence for change. And that change fits with the theory of periodic climate change, similar to the change that causes the ice ages on Earth," Mustard said.

http://www.marstoday.com/news/viewpr.html?pid=5597

There is two important things to note about that - first, the climate change being discussed has all along been expected. This is NOT a surprise finding but simply confirmation that Mars also undergoes periodic climate change. The second thing to note is that the periodic change on Mars is being likened to the periodic change on earth that causes ice ages.

Of course the climate change the freepers are trying to compare it to is the change that has occured above and beyond what is to be expected by the normal periodic changes. So once again freepers are SPINNING science to make it SEEM to fit their beliefs, when the fact is it actually disproves their beliefs.

[William Seger]

17. Mars and Pluto may be warming

Mars may be exiting from a relative "ice age" -- the polar caps may be melting -- and Pluto seems to be warmer now than it was 13 years ago when it was closest to the sun. But we don't know much at all about the long-term weather patterns on either planet. (Pluto hasn't even been known for one full Pluto-year, so we don't even know the seasonal patterns there.)

So, it's certainly not "all the planets" and even if there is some solar phenomenon that partially accounts for global warming on Earth, then all the more reason to control greenhouse gases; exacerbating the problem would be really, really stupid. But your FReeper friend no doubt intended to imply that greenhouse gases aren't "the" problem, which is bullshit.

[struggle4progress]

18. Crackpot theories are quite common: The German Marshall Fund ..

.. (for example) in the mid-1990s was pushing a theory that global warming didn't matter because humans were adding greenhouse gas to the atmosphere at just the right rate to counter a supposed decrease in solar radiance associated with some sunspot cycle. Since it takes about thirty seconds to come up with such a theory, while refutation can take man-decades of work, refuting these one-liners is a losing proposition -- and you endow them with rhetorical credibility when you address them as if serious refutation were required.

Question! Always question! "I haven't heard that. How were historical temperature records obtained for Mercury? How much has the temperature on Venus increased in the last decade? What effect does changing temperature have on the Martian atmosphere? Who is measuring the temperature on Jupiter? Are Saturn's rings getting hotter? What's supposed to be causing this? Well, what do you know about it? Where did you say you heard this?"

[XemaSab]

19. Well yeah, that was my immediate response

"We have 200 years of historical data for most of the Earth, but only a few decades of remote-sensing data for a couple other planets."

[struggle4progress]

20. Isotopic work on ice cores gives more than 200 years data for earth.

[XemaSab]

21. I know that

but I really didn't want to get into how they can figure that out in the parking lot of the furniture store. It's technical and I don't know if I could do it justice.

Everyone has read a thermometer, even morans.

[Dead_Parrot]

22. E/E's resident astrophysicist speaks words of wisdom:

Bollocks.

[Nihil]

23. A guess

I recall hearing something along those lines on the radio a while
back but the best I could find in a quick search was the following:

"The Sun is burning brighter than at any time over the past 1,150 years,
according to a study by a professor at a Swiss university.
...
(The) professor at the Federal Institute of Technology in Zurich,
presented the findings at a conference of solar and stellar scientists
in Hamburg, Germany (in 2004)."

http://www.swissinfo.org/eng/Swissinfo.html?siteSect=511&sid=5080155

i.e., the sun is putting out more energy so more energy will reach
every planet and, absent any compensatory mechanism, will thus warm
up every planet by a fraction more than previously.

This has SFA to do with climate change here (the increase is small
in comparison with the other changes that we know are due to human
interaction) but it is worth acknowledging before burying it under
the wealth of *relevent* information!

[XemaSab]

24. All the answers one could want on the topic:

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1651785/posts

NOT!

[Dead_Parrot]

25. Ahh! my eyes! nt