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hatrack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-09-04 04:59 PM
Original message
Oceanographic Team Probes Gulf Stream For Signs Of Slowdown
"A ship with scientists from five countries is racing to find out whether the Gulf Stream, which gives much of Europe a livable climate, could stop flowing.

The research vessel RRS Discovery left Britain three weeks ago on a mission to see whether global warming could actually chill one of the greatest heat-carrying mechanisms on the planet.

EDIT

But some scientists believe the Gulf Stream shut down suddenly in the past as the last Ice Age was ending 13,000 years ago. A sudden rush of cold freshwater from melting glaciers upset its balance, and vegetation records show Europe was plunged into a deep freeze for more than 1,000 years, they believe. Now the project called RAPID is probing the Gulf Stream near the Canary Islands for signs of slowing. The project is funded by the U.S. and Britain. Scientists from Germany, Norway and the Netherlands are also involved.

EDIT

"It is unlikely that we will detect dramatic changes within the next four years (the duration of the project's current phase)," German oceanographer Jochem Marotzke told the journal Nature. But he said the team will learn how to design a stable monitoring system for the long term, allowing the study of the complex ocean movements."

EDIT/END

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theHandpuppet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-09-04 06:20 PM
Response to Original message
1. How long before we can expect a report...
.. from their survey? Any idea? And will our own govt dismiss the findings if it's not to their liking? Any slowing of the Gulf Stream is an ominous sign.
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Dogmudgeon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-09-04 08:00 PM
Response to Original message
2. Here's the nasty part
I don't remember exactly where I read this, but Woods Hole (Robert Gagosian and his posse) is a good place to start.

We have far less quantified oceanographic research going on right now than we have had in decades. Our ability to study ocean currents peaked in the 1960s; since then, more and more monitor buoys have been lost and not replaced. The result is, we're nearly blind, and since Europe expected the USA to do all the work, Europe -- which will be hardest-hit by a climatic flip -- is completely in the dark.

Hopefully, this will change soon. Like asteroid scanning, it's a relatively inexpensive program that could save millions of lives.

--bkl
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theHandpuppet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-09-04 09:28 PM
Response to Reply #2
3. Looking for a global map...
.. that shows what areas of the planet could be most dramactially affected and how. Can anyone point me to a link?
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Dogmudgeon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-10-04 01:07 AM
Response to Reply #3
6. Here's a map for North America

The Extent of Glaciation in North America ca 25 kYa

(I believe it's from the University of Illinois.)

To search for yourself, go to Google and type in the following key words:

extent glaciation america europe planetary ice age

--bkl
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treepig Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-10-04 08:19 AM
Response to Reply #3
10. a circulation map
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ex_jew Donating Member (627 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-09-04 09:40 PM
Response to Reply #2
4. I understand the drill with asteroids, but how are we going to save
millions of lives once we know the Gulf Stream is over ? Drive smaller cars ?
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Dogmudgeon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-10-04 01:01 AM
Response to Reply #4
5. Saving lives before the Ice Age
Once the North Atlantic Thermohaline Circulation collapses, the world won't be plunged into an instant ice age. It will take anywhere from a year to a decade for the necessary temperature anomalies to form. Basically, the equatorial Atlantic will become very warm as the north Atlantic becomes arctic.

During that period, Europe will cool down -- as will North America, but not so dramatically at first. But once a certain level of temperature difference is reached, the weather will turn abruptly worse, much worse. The warm, tropical air will push into the cold arctic air and the clash will produce "superstorms" like the snowstorm that hit the eastern part of the USA on March 10-15, 1993.

Meteorologists call this a Wave 2 teleconnection since it is formed from two massive low-pressure cells, one over east-central USA, and the other over north-eastern Europe -- connected over the North Pole.

So, how do we save lives? Simple -- and difficult. Northern Europeans, who will be affected first, will need to keep a week's supply of food, fuel, water, and other provisions on hand (or more, if possible). They'll need to keep emergency supplies in, too.

Second, the immediately affected countries (Scandinavia, Scotland, the Baltics, the European heartland, and Iceland) should make evacuation plans NOW. This should be coordinated by the European Economic Community. Resettlement plans should be drawn up before the crisis hits.

Third, North America should be prepared to do the same thing. We'll be about a year behind Europe in the cool-down, although once the stormy weather starts, it is likely to be world-wide. In a full ice-age scenario, almost all of Canada will have to be resettled. Fortunately, there are only about 35 million Canadians. But 8 million are French Canadians, and that's a big cultural jump, especially for the xenophobic USA to absorb millions of people their government has conditioned them to disdain.

Now, there's a significant possibility these climate changes won't happen soon. There could be some occurrence that reverses the loss of salinity, or a cool and cloudy summer that prevents arctic ice-melt runoff, or something like that. These cycles in nature take 5-20 years to come around. We might luck out and get two decades, or five, or a century without a "climate flip-flop".

Or, it might start next week.

The over-all strategy should be: Prepare but don't panic. It costs very little to think about how to deal with it before it happens, to make some plans, to negotiate resettlement options. In your own life, if you live in Boston, don't put the house up for sale tomorrow -- just get better acquainted with the South.

And most of the lives lost to a new ice age won't be from the cold, but from famine. Yet that problem exists already in most of the world. I fear that most of these people will be lost, not because of the cold, but because of economic exploitation from multinational corporations and political tyranny from homegrown Hitlers. They don't care about their fellow citizens; CEOs and Maximum Commanders don't go without food during a famine.

The ice age in the heart of Humanity has never thawed, and it's that ice age that will harvest most of the victims.

--bkl
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ex_jew Donating Member (627 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-10-04 01:30 AM
Response to Reply #5
7. Thanks - will discuss with wife !
Although given the uproar over relocating 25,000 settlers from Gaza, I do wonder how millions of Canadians will be accomodated.
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Dogmudgeon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-10-04 02:39 AM
Response to Reply #7
8. Gaza and Quebec
Well ...

In the Middle East, you have two groups of, uh, passionate people, with a long history of being exploited by multinational concerns. One group is justifiably wary because of a recent case of genocide; the other group is infected with religious mania brought about by 200 years of wiseass colonials' meddling.

In North America, you have Team Bush acting like Triumph, the Insult Comic Dog, pumping up a hatred of the French. But in a time of crisis, especially with affluent Canadians buying land in the USA, there will be some mitigating factors -- especially since Bush is likely to have acquired a reputation somewhere between Mussolini and Nixon by that time.

Israel and the Arab world will be harder-hit by famine; Israel's desalinization and irrigation technology will become vitally important. But the way the Arab leaders will react is anyone's guess. A lot of Arabs don't hate Israel, but they're not the religiomaniacs, and are not likely to be listened to in time of hunger and crisis.

Europe is going to get knocked on its collective ass. Upwards of 60% of the population of Europe is going to have to find a new place to live. It won't be pretty at all, but it will be better than dying of hunger, which will be the fate of most of Africa and Asia.

Of course, we might get a reprieve, but it's worth thinking these problems through before Jean-Pierre, Marie-Louise and les enfants show up on the doorstep. I personally like French Canadians, but I still have to pay attention to where to stow the inflatable bed.

I'm not sure how much of a Jew, Ex or otherwise, you consider yourself to be, but keep in mind that Texas is the home of Kinky Friedman and the Texas Jewboys. And here's two words you seldom hear in the same sentence: Kosher Chili.

Shalom, y'all!

--bkl
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Boomer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-10-04 08:37 AM
Response to Reply #8
12. Moving is easy...
but how the heck are all these displaced millions going to be fed?

You can move people from one country to another, but they are leaving behind the land that sustained a significant agribusiness. This is true of both Canada and Europe, which both make substantial contributions to the world's food supply.

Famine won't be confined to just Africa and Asia; hunger will be the fate of a lot of Americans as well if this country accepts the displaced population of Canada, and some of Europe as well. The alternative, however, would be to patrol the country's borders and try to physically block the influx of millions of desperate people. Not an appealing scenario either.

So, no matter what course we take, millions of people would die. The current population is waaaay too high to sustain without maximum productivity, a productivity that is going to drop significantly under the stresses of global climate upheavals.

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Dogmudgeon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-10-04 10:44 AM
Response to Reply #12
13. Hunger is THE problem
I think North America can make it -- barely. We have very rich soil and a very good agricultural system right now. Of course, we won't have nearly as much to eat as we're used to, but we should have enough food to go around.

Promoting simple home hydroponics in both the USA and in other countries could help out a great deal, too, but I'm sure it won't even be considered until 75% of the country is on an involuntary reducing diet.

There's a lot of reasons for what I'm about to say, but I think it will happen: The less-developed world will probably starve. It is possible we'll be seeing 5 billion deaths in a 3-year period. It's not inevitable, and it's certainly something that can be avoided, but politics and matters of power will intrude.

But even talking about it now could have far-reaching beneficial effects. And I hope to live to see how wrong I am!

--bkl
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Jim Warren Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-10-04 02:04 PM
Response to Reply #5
14. "The ice age in the heart of Humanity has never thawed......."
Poignant turn of phrase bkl, as ruthlessly correct as it is.
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treepig Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-10-04 08:16 AM
Response to Original message
9. New study reports large-scale salinity changes in the oceans
Edited on Wed Mar-10-04 08:17 AM by treepig
New study reports large-scale salinity changes in the oceans
Saltier tropical oceans and fresher ocean waters near the poles further signs of global climate change's impacts
Arlington, Va.--Tropical ocean waters have become dramatically saltier over the past 40 years, while oceans closer to Earth's poles have become fresher, scientists report in the December 18th issue of the journal Nature. These large-scale, relatively rapid oceanic changes suggest that recent climate changes, including global warming, may be altering the fundamental planetary system that regulates evaporation and precipitation and cycles fresh water around the globe.
The study was conducted by Ruth Curry of the Woods Hole Oceanographic Institution (WHOI); Bob Dickson of the Centre for Environment, Fisheries, and Aquaculture Science in Lowestoft, U.K.; and Igor Yashayaev of the Bedford Institute of Oceanography in Dartmouth, Canada.

"This study is important because it provides direct evidence that the global water cycle is intensifying," said Elise Ralph, associate director of the National Science Foundation's (NSF) physical oceanography program, which funded the research. "This is consistent with global warming hypotheses that suggest ocean evaporation will increase as Earth's temperature does. These issues are particularly important as pressure on freshwater resources has become critical in many areas around the world."

An acceleration of Earth's global water cycle can potentially affect global precipitation patterns that govern the distribution, severity and frequency of droughts, floods and storms. It would also exacerbate global warming by rapidly adding more water vapor--itself a potent, heat-trapping greenhouse gas--to the atmosphere. And it could continue to freshen North Atlantic Ocean waters to a point that could disrupt ocean circulation and trigger further climate changes.

more

http://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2003-12/nsf-nsr121603.php

http://www.scienceagogo.com/news/20031117204012data_trunc_sys.shtml
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treepig Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-10-04 08:21 AM
Response to Original message
11. enjoy your day at the beach soon . . .
Edited on Wed Mar-10-04 08:21 AM by treepig



Figure 2. (above) A summer's day at "Telegrafbukta" in Tromsø. (below) A summer's day at Nansenfjord, in south-east Greenland. Both pictures are taken at a latitude of 70 degrees north. The difference in the climate is due to the sea currents. Tromsø enjoys a warmer climate due to the warming effect of the Gulf Stream, while the eastern coast of Greenland is cooled by the East-Greenland current.

from http://www.destinasjontromso.no/gulfstrmmens_historie_eng.htm
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