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phantom power Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-13-06 11:58 AM
Original message
Some random observations about Phoenix....
1) This week, we set a new record for peak power usage: 7.1 gigawatts. Before the summer is over, we expect to hit 7.3 gigawatts

2) Today's high is expected to be 113F. Last night it was 102F at 10pm. Today's heat advisory begins about now, at 10am, and will run until 8pm (sunset). It should be hitting 100F right about now.

3) Over 100 new homes are built here in the Valley each day.
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Sammy Pepys Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-13-06 12:00 PM
Response to Original message
1. I Love Phoenix
Wouldn't mind retiring there someday.
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phantom power Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-13-06 12:37 PM
Response to Reply #1
8. I would consider some other location, which has a secure water supply.
Whereever that might be. If you find out, let me know.
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Dead_Parrot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-14-06 12:02 AM
Response to Reply #8
11. Come down to the Wairarapa....
The water supply secured itself by another inch or two today. Looks like it'll be securing itself all bloody night.

I'd give several black-market body parts for 102o right now... :(
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phantom power Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-14-06 10:22 AM
Response to Reply #11
13. I for one, welcome our new climate of droughts and flooding...
Because peace and prosperity were boring.
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NNadir Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-13-06 12:13 PM
Response to Original message
2. I'm sure that there's nothing about which to worry. All those new
solar installations must be making so much energy by now that no new power plants are needed.

Thank goodness. I was really worried that the Granite Fox 1,450 MW coal fired plant in Nevada would be built, but the outbreak of a renewable nirvana has certainly eased my worries on this score.

I'm guessing though that power plants having other than renewable energy are being shut down all over Arizona, Nevada, and California.

Leave that coal burning to Utah and Wyoming.
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phantom power Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-13-06 12:26 PM
Response to Reply #2
5. Oh yes, we're decommissioning fossil plants all over the place :-)
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NNadir Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-13-06 12:44 PM
Response to Reply #5
9. That's good to hear. I'll stop worrying and be happy. n/t
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NNadir Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-14-06 06:44 PM
Response to Reply #5
18. Here's a milestone mega"watt" for you.
http://www.renewableenergyaccess.com/rea/news/story?id=44696

http://www.renewableenergyaccess.com/rea/news/story?id=44696

This "turnkey" plant cost only $6.1 million dollars and has an electrical input for almost 200 homes, a mere $30,000 per home. If they build 2 of these plants every day in sunny Arizona, you will be able to supply all of the new homes in the Phoenix area.

Aren't you lucky?

Only 7.099 gigawatts to go, unless of course, you want electricity at night.
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Bobbieo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-13-06 12:13 PM
Response to Original message
3. Phoenix is too Much!!!
Have lived in Tucson, Phoenix, Kearny, Scottsdale and currently Yuma.Would love to go back to Tucson but it is just too big. When I first went there in '44 there were 39,000 people in Tucson and 50,000 in Phoenix. WOW huh!!!!!
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phantom power Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-13-06 12:25 PM
Response to Reply #3
4. Damn, that was a different world :-) 5 million live in the Valley today.
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redqueen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-13-06 12:28 PM
Response to Original message
6. how's the water situation looking? n/t
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phantom power Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-13-06 12:36 PM
Response to Reply #6
7. Not good, although nobody reports on it so it's hard to say exactly...
I know that we're still in our 9-year drought, as far as the hydrologists are concerned. We had, to a first approximation, absolutely no snowpack this winter. Which, of course, is a slow-motion catastrophe for the water budget of the entire southwest.

Governor Napolitano has made various official mouth-noises to the effect that she realizes that there's an important issue somewhere out there, but no serious action is being taken. No rationing, no limits on further new housing developments, etc. In her defense, she is a Democratic governor presiding over a Republican legislature in a conservative state. Anything she accomplishes is probably a minor miracle.
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Pooka Fey Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-13-06 11:56 PM
Response to Original message
10. Phoenix been berri berri good to me...
I escaped my hometown of LA after getting laid off in the recession of 1991. This place blew my mind - how could a desert be so green and so achingly beautiful??? Plus there was no traffic!!! It was hot in summer, but the winters were cooler than LA. And for the 1st time in my life, I could visualize myself owning a piece of the dream: a condo - they were practically giving them away here at the end of '92. I got one for less than many people spend on a car. That world is Gone with the Wind. The traffic, the heat, the real estate prices (now falling back to earth), the imminent water catastrophe that nobody talks about - I can't blame everyone for coming here because they got priced out of their hometowns like I did. But to watch the systematic rape of the natural desert which was this location's finest quality - it's unbearable.

Plus socially here - since it's comprised mostly of newcomers and transplants - the extreme social stratification is something I find fairly obscene. One of my jobs puts me in the path of the ...how shall I put it...those people that are just so obscenely and smugly rich that the some distant genetic memory of "The Terror" starts running playbacks in my head when I'm forced to be around them. The 'insulated rich' that are served, and the regular working people that serve them have just a few fragile threads holding the two halves together as a community. It's a very shallow arrangement. The only real communities I have encountered here are those composed of genuine Arizona natives (one example is the Mormons, whom (I've now learned) are mostly really good people), or those communities of people who have moved en masse from other states and stuck together out here. Of course, I can only speak from my own limited perception.

I read today's "New Times" article

http://www.phoenixnewtimes.com/Issues/2006-07-13/news/feature.html

about the Katrina refugees who landed here. One thing that stuck out was that many of them said that they never realized they were so poor before they were forced out of New Orleans. You didn't need a car to get around there; there was an established sense of social courtesy - everybody says "Good Morning" and "Good Evening" when they pass each other on the street where they WALK (between May and now there has been a 25 incident random shooting spree here in Phoenix - every victim was someone on foot or on a bike, getting shot by people driving by in a car; who is going to walk anywhere to save energy with this kind of random violence? But I digress). People in NO have a history (one of the interviewees is from the Millon family - that name has a deep meaning in NO, but not here), when money's short in that community, the corner store gives you credit because they've known you for x number of years, or your neighbors bring over some red beans, and every Sunday the whole community participates in gatherings...talk about a rich community with very little cash. That's the polar opposite of life here.

I go back and forth over whether Phoenix is going to implode or not - I'd have to say that there are maybe enough people that are clued in to reality that Phoenix could have a chance --- providing the population shrinks to a reasonable size for the geography, and providing the community strengthens enough socially and politically to combat the corporate builders that control the dialog, decision-making and land use issues. :hi: I won't be here to help, I'm leaving at the end of the summer. But I'll be back to visit, because I'm rooting for this place even though I never managed to put down any real roots here. I'm energetically an ocean person - that's what my Sedona psychic told me. ;-) (She's right!)
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phantom power Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-14-06 10:27 AM
Response to Reply #10
14. Phoenix has it's charms, to be sure.
I'm not sure what you mean by "no traffic," but I'm a small-town boy.
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Pooka Fey Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-14-06 02:14 PM
Response to Reply #14
16. "No traffic" definition is
driving 65 mph on the 202 between Tempe and Downtown Phoenix with no slowdowns whatsoever between the hours of 3:30 and 6:30 p.m., consistently. Everything is relative, isn't it?

Back in '92 I knew that wouldn't last forever, and I was right.

L.A. traffic means random slowdowns (65 mph to 5 mph in 3 seconds) at any time of day on every freeway. I've slowed to a crawl at 2 a.m. on the Hollywood freeway coming home to the SF Valley on a Tuesday night. (We're not there yet) To drive in L.A. without dying or causing thousands of people to curse you by getting into an accident, (and this was 15 years ago) you had to be prepared to downshift into 1st gear at any time, but you were GUARANTEED to be driving only in 1st/2nd gear between the hours of 3 p.m. and 7:30 p.m. I've commuted from LA to OC driving for 2.5 hours only in 1st/2nd gear. That's fun you could package and sell.

I hoped that Phoenix would be smart enough to avoid LA's sprawl and traffic nightmare. See all the good that did. BUT there is a light-rail system going in now. These are the things that give me a guardedly hopeful feeling about Phoenix, provided the things I mentioned earlier occur.
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ramapo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-14-06 08:31 AM
Response to Original message
12. 100 houses a day
That is incredible. Only in fantasyland would millions of people flock to a rather inhospitable desert to live and think it was a real good thing.

The fact that nobody is quite sure where the water will come from to support the population, the need for mega amounts of energy to keep the population from toasting in the summer, and the general overall blight of it all are inconvenient truths.

Which is worse, Phoenix or Las Vegas?
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Pooka Fey Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-14-06 01:40 PM
Response to Reply #12
15. Vegas is worse. nt
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depakid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-14-06 05:43 PM
Response to Original message
17. The Salt River Valley
had a population of how many people once upon a time?

Even old man McCullough knew you couldn't sustain a city there.

100 new homes every day?

Crikey.

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