crosspost: UK--PLAN FOR ‘CREDIT CARDS’ TO RATION INDIVIDUALS’ CARBON USE

[bananas]

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=364x1673489

[NNadir]

1. In one sense, it's a good idea, since it gives people a sense of what

they are doing.

However the same objective is easily met by an international carbon tax which is administratively easier.

The carbon tax should be enormous and should be able to manage the costs of famines, destroyed nations, destroyed cities - from Venice to New York to Washington.

A tax that reflected the likely cost of global climate change would quickly drive the costs of fossil fuels so high as to eliminate them. The rapid phase out of fossil fuels is probably the only chance we have.

This summer is already shaping up as a disaster.

[Strelnikov_]

2. This Would Also Address The Injustice Of 'Rationing By Price' For Energy

as availabilty contracts in the coming years.

A practical solution to effect bottom up transformation.


Miliband Unveils Carbon Swipe-Card Plan
http://politics.guardian.co.uk/green/story/0,,1824238,00.html

Under the proposals, consumers would carry bank cards that record their personal carbon usage. Those who use more energy - with big cars and foreign holidays - would have to buy more carbon points, while those who consume less - those without cars, or people with solar power - would be able to sell their carbon points.

Mr Miliband denied suggestions that the scheme would penalise the poor, by, for example, forcing the elderly to turn off their central heating in winter to save carbon points. "The technical work that has been done so far suggests that poorer people would actually do well out of it," the minister told Channel 4 News at Noon. "It is not the poor who are the biggest emitters of carbon. It is not the poor who have the biggest cars or the biggest holidays or the most aeroplane flights or the most energy inefficient usage."

Under the scheme, all UK citizens from the Queen down would be allocated an identical annual carbon allowance, stored as points on an electronic card similar to Air Miles or supermarket loyalty cards. Points would be deducted at point of sale for every purchase of non-renewable energy. People who did not use their full allocation, such as families who do not own a car, would be able to sell their surplus carbon points into a central bank.

High energy users could then buy them - motorists who had used their allocation would still be able to buy petrol, with the carbon points drawn from the bank and the cost added to their fuel bills. To reduce total UK emissions, the overall number of points would shrink each year. "As a planet we are consuming three times the amount of resources that we have got," the environment secretary told Channel 4 News. "If you think about us as individuals - we are emitting about four tonnes of carbon every year and that's probably three times as much as we can afford; as a household on average 10 tonnes."

[dcfirefighter]

3. A Carbon Tax COULD do the same thing

It would be administratively easier to simply tax carbon at their point of emissions. The problem of rationing by price (which is actually how our economy works, anyway) could be eliminating by distributing the net revenue on a per capita basis - or by spending the revenue on true public goods.

How would a Carbon Card account for the Carbon Emitted in steel refining, or in concrete manufacturing? How would a carbon card account for the carbon released upon deforestation? How would a carbon card account for the differences in carbon emissions for all of the various things people purchase? Would a carbon card account for the carbon sequestered when sustainable agricultural practices are used, or when areas become reforested?

If the carbon is taxed at each and every step in the supply chain, the end price will reflect each product's total carbon cost. This would be difficult to do by merely assessing a debit at the point of sale. More than likely, if they address the problem at all, they'd completely group like items - 1 lb of apples = 50 g of Carbon Dioxide; regardless of whether the apples were grown and transported with heavy carbon use or light carbon use.

If applied on a global scale, such a re-assignment of costs could go a long way to eliminating poverty:
The world population emits some 6500M T of Carbon a year. A tax of $50 / Tonne C would raise $325B a year, or roughly $50 a person. Not much for someone in the US, quite a bit for someone in East Timor.

[Strelnikov_]

4. Did I Imply That The 'Carbon Card' Would Address The Entire Carbon Cycle?

It is obviously intended for 'residential/personal' energy use.



Commercial energy use could be accounted for with a carbon tax, as you suggest.

The advantage of the card system as presented is that a progressive way of rationing a baseline quantity of energy, at a lower cost, could be effected.

As you allude to, this could also be accomplished by a rebate of the carbon tax, something along the lines of the earned income tax credit.

Either way, in my opinion we need 1) a way to ration a baseline amount of energy at an affordable cost for residential/personal use and 2) a tax on carbon (fossil) fuel sources to promote conservation/transformation, boy howdy quick.

[dcfirefighter]

5. Agreed.......but:

always a but, isn't there?

Addressing residential carbon use is but a tiny part of the problem. Admittedly, it's a fairly easy part to fix, imho, but a fairly small part (say about a quarter of it).

The other part, is that it would be hard to account for the carbon 'imbedded' in goods for domestic consumption.

China and the US have similar carbon emissions. The problem is that most of China's emissions are 'in our name' - they're used to produce goods that are exported to the US.

I suppose the WTO wouldn't like it, but I feel that countries should have the right to assess imbedded carbon taxes against imports.