Question: why are republicans so opposed to the idea of global warming?

[XemaSab]

Why are they so determined to willfully deny that it's happening?

What threat does the idea pose to them?

I would think diversifying our energy sources would be good common sense even without global warming, but somehow these troglodytes are totally opposed to the idea of changing where we get our energy from. The one percent doctrine said we should go to war with Iraq, but why does the same principle not hold true for the potential threat posed by climate change?

On edit: I mean rank-and-file republicans, not big corporations.

[Harper_is_Bush]

1. Climate change is not a "one percent" threat, it's 100%

And the denial that it's happening and/or denail that we're causing it is largely driven by a very well funded campaign by oil, gas, forestry, coal, and other assorted industries.

EXXON is the worst of them.

[XemaSab]

6. Well duh...

I'm saying if 1% was good enough to go to war with Iraq, it should be good enough to mobilize towards renewable energy.

What I'm asking is why Joe Freeper is so freaked out by the idea. How is EXXON persuading Joe Freeper to side with Big Oil?

[Harper_is_Bush]

23. Well cha...

You said "why does the same principle not hold true for the potential threat posed by climate change?"

And if you're not aware of how EXXON is influencing the debate then perhaps you shouldn't be posting on Global Warming.

[XemaSab]

24. I am aware of how EXXON is influencing the debate

But I thought blaming Big Oil was an oversimplification of a complex topic. :shrug:

It's equivalent to saying that we lose elections because Diebold owns the machines. It may be partly true, but it absolves us of responsibility for making sure our message gets out.

[Warpy]

2. They are terrified of change, any change, even change for the

better, even change for sheer survival.

Besides, their biggest corporate contributors won't like it.

[XemaSab]

7. Big corporations are quietly looking towards renewables

GM now has the biggest rooftop photovoltaic system in the world.

And it doesn't explain why the common Freepers are so freaked out.

[bowens43]

3. It all comes down to money.

[XemaSab]

How so?

:shrug:

[bananas]

15. they believe their jobs and the economy require the use of natural

resources, so they view any restriction on the use of natural resources to hurt them financially, either directly or indirectly.

[XemaSab]

17. I think this is closer to the truth

I think it's the same people who are freaked out by the idea of affirmative action, but I still lack a full conceptualization of why the endangered species act or recycling are so THREATENING to Joe Freep.

[FormerDittoHead]

4. DON'T FALL FOR THE SMOKESCREEN OF THE MINIORITY.

"The smokescreen" are the small number of Republicans denying that it's happening.

Leading Republicans, the vast majority of Republicans acknowlege the global climate change.

The issue is cause and effect.

[XemaSab]

9. I'm basing this on too much time spent on FR.

They're such FOAMERS about the topic, and I can't for the life of me figure out why.

[One_Life_To_Give]

32. Freepers are another story

Conservatives are more concerned about the financial impacts of trying to stop climate change.

Freepers likely fall into two arguments
1) It's a Hoax to get funding for a few researchers and maybe some others/corps. to make money from.
2) A belief that GOD didn't create an Earth that we could destroy this way.

Conservatives you can at least reason with and possibly come to an agreement on some level of action. Debating with Freepers is mostly a waste of time.

[XemaSab]

37. So you think the non-fundy freepers

think it's just greedy liberals making stuff up?

Interesting....

Makes sense....

[TygrBright]

5. I could write reams of detailed analysis...

...but basically it all comes down to one thing: Acknowledging the existence of a serious threat to humanity's future would require them to consider something OTHER than their own personal benefit/satisfaction when making decisions.

That's it, in a nutshell. They just don't wanna have to think about anything except "what *I* want, for me, my family, and my buddies" when they are deciding where/how to invest money, buy land, landscape their yards, build their businesses, etc. Oh, they'll make pro forma shows of "community spirit" with the Rotary Club or the Lions or their Church, but that's voluntary and generally doesn't cost them anything serious in terms of not doing something they want to do.

I wish I could say it came down to something more complex, but all the complexities are at the surface, and they all boil down to that: They don't wanna have to take anything else into consideration except "what I want."

sadly,
Bright

[pepperbear]

8. this should be it's own thread....

:toast:

[XemaSab]

10. They're more than willing to get freaked out about terrorists

or a number of any other threats.

Why not global warming? And how do they feel that they will have to change their lives?

Most dems I know are well aware of warming, but it doesn't make this big practical difference day-to-day. :shrug:

[TygrBright]

12. Sure it does! Make a day-to-day difference, that is...

...think about it. Once you realize that the very root cause of global warming is CONSUMPTION, what does that do to the average GOPpie, whose personal aspirations are all based around consuming? Why the hell should they have to give up gas-guzzling V-8 muscle cars because of a bunch of greenie-weenie wimps worrying about air pollution?

Why the hell should they have to recycle bottles, cans, plastic containers, newspapers and all that other junk rather than just shoving it all in the trash can for endless landfills and incinerators to handle, spewing endless waste into the environment?

Why the hell should they have to pay more for real food, not to mention go to some hippy-dippy farmer's market peopled by sandal-wearing weirdos who shove 'save the whales' flyers at them to get food grown locally rather than food trucked hundreds or thousands of miles at a carbon cost of godknowswhat that they can get at the local SuperInstaMarket?

Why the hell should they have to think about what fibers their clothing is made from rather than just buying the coolest stuff they see on major league athletes and country western stars?

Why the hell should they use glass or reusable plastic containers to store things and have to WASH them and store them and make an effort, rather than just buying stuff with disposable packaging?

See? Thing is, once you realize that we (consumers) are the cause of the looming climatological disaster that will devastate future generations of humanity's ability to survive, you have to start thinking about it. You have to start making mindful choices. You have to give up the cheap, the easy, the cool, and go with the genuinely frugal, the effortful, the un-hip. That's contrary to the average Freeps' God-Given RIGHT to consume any damn' thing they can afford, any time they want. And it scares the hell out of them.

So yes, that reasoning applies right down the line from the GOPpie businessman who doesn't want to have to invest bags of cash in retrofitting his production facilities to use less carbon and spew less crap, down to Trailerpark Andy and his sixpack buying the latest NASCAR-branded merchandise produced from petrochemical-based fibers.

informatively,
Bright

[PADemD]

14. You have the answer, TygrBright !

[XemaSab]

16. Honestly

The lifestyle differences between the most backwards FReeper and the average Gore-voting democrat aren't that big.

Also, these people care about their kids, their property, and their businesses as much as we do.

It's one thing to say "oh shit, global warming" and carry on with business as usual, like 95% of us, but it's another thing to dump scorn and derision on the whole idea.

[TygrBright]

21. Yes, exactly... they DO care...

>>Also, these people care about their kids, their property, and their businesses as much as we do.<<

And it's because they DO care that they carefully shove their heads in the sand when it comes to environmental issues. They care, therefore if they acknowledged the problem they'd have to DO something about it. They'd have to change their priorities, how they make decisions, how they live. They can't handle that, so they deny there is a problem.

I'm not saying denial is exclusive to GOPpies, lord knows Dems have plenty of world-class denial issues. I'm just saying GOPpies have had WAY more practice in the last forty years, so they're bound to be better at it. And that's what's going on here. They are in serious denial about environmental destruction, because if they admitted it existed, they'd have to make serious changes.

Dumping scorn and derision on the whole global warming idea is a denial thing. If global warming is lie-brul bullshit, they don't have to do anything. So they're not gonna let it be real. It's much, MUCH easier to inflate boogeymen that require them to do nothing except foam at the mouth and demand the government send soldiers to teach them terra-ists a lesson-- that can be a REAL danger, far, far out of proportion to the actual danger that they or anyone they know/care about is going to be harmed by a terrorist.

It's much more comfortable to get in a howling tizzy about a danger that is essentially imaginary (since 99.999999999% of them will ever be harmed by terrorists) than to confront a REAL danger that has REAL consequenced for everyone and can only be averted by everyone making serious lifestyle changes.

Ask Karl Rove. He knows.

cynically,
Bright

[Dead_Parrot]

18. Minor correction...

"what *I* want, for me, my family, and my buddies"...

I don't think 'family' should be in there: These asshats don't give a fuck about thier kids...

[XemaSab]

19. That's an extreme statement

I think they DO care about their kids, but they have a different idea of what's in the best interest of their kids than we do.

[Dead_Parrot]

22. Well, possibly...

I'd have to wonder how many of them have actually sat down and thought about it, rather than just following a set pattern of school districts, birthday baseball mitt, colledge funds and first car. But I guess they might be doing their best with a limited mental capacity...

[Nitrogenica]

11. They are blinded by their greed. Oil is everything to them.

Is it any coincidence that Iraq has one of the largest oil deposits in the world?

Why did Exxon fund those scientists who debunk global warming?

Why hasn't the US auto industry developed more fuel independent vehicles, and why did they market trucks so much?

Why did the Republicans create a bill that gave tax breaks to small businesses who bought trucks?

What role did Andrew Card, the Former General Motors' Vice President of Government Relations, play in forging Republican policy while he was in office?

Why is the Cheney Energy bill a secret, and why were oil executives not required to testify under oath at their hearing?

Why are excuses for gas prices rising given so readily when oil companies set US profit records quarter after quarter?

Why are additives given as a reason for prices going down in the fall when that has never happened before in the history of oil and gas prices?

So many questions, yet so little pursuit of answers in the US media. What are we waiting for, the BBC to seek these answers? The American public who supports * and his policies are gullible, submissive, weak, and pathetic.....PERIOD.

A weak man on his deathbed can be a tough guy killer if he has a gun.

[tocqueville]

13. there are afraid of ending up in a warmer place nt

[Dead_Parrot]

20. Here's a thought: The USA.

There's a lot of good points been made up-thread, but here's one that just popped into my head for you to kick around.

America is all powerful and good: The government, the Walmarts, the "big three" car makers, the Baptist churches, the flags, the army, the toxic fast food... it all adds up to an almost sentient entity that, in their minds, comes a very close second to God. That the country was made from scratch and made life good for everybody* means that it must be perfect, almost by definition.

Saying that America is wrong is therefore blasphemy - even worse, Unamerican. As proved in various wars and sci-fi films, America is the ultimate force for good in the universe: There is nothing that cannot be overcome by patriotic songs, snappy salutes and more consumption: The American dream, in fact.

That the laws of physics and biochemistry may have other ideas is simply irrelevant. They are clearly Unamerican, and need to get with the program.

(* Well, everybody who's rich and white)

[skids]

25. Which Republicans?

The oligarchs? Because many non-fossil power systems are easier to break up into distributed ownership, and we wouldn't want the plebes to have an ownership stake in the energy economy.

The sheeple? Because their oligarchs tell them so, and because the liberals got there first in advocating the issue, and they cannot bear to admit they were right.

[YankeyMCC]

26. Change threatens their positions

As someone above said, it's about money, but a little deeper it's about established money. They make their money in certain industries and in certain ways and they want to protect that and keep the status quo.

All the talk about free market is bunk.

[silverweb]

27. I dunno.

I've pondered and pondered and still haven't figured this one out.

You'd think "enlightened self interest" would make them plan ahead while taking global warming/pollution into consideration, wouldn't you?

Maybe they're nothing more than short-term greedy, suicidal nihilists.

What makes me hate them so much is that they have no compunction about taking all of us down with them.

[XemaSab]

30. If it was the haves who were the loudest

that would be one thing, but it seems like the have-nots are doing the most screeching.

[Nihil]

31. Easily explained I fear ...

The "haves" are the people at the top of the pile, with the most
influence, the most "respected" commentators and opinion manipulators.

The "have-nots" are the least intelligent, the least questioning,
the most easily (mis-)led and the least likely to respond to logical
discussion.

Basically, this fight is about intelligent concerned people on one side
against a minority of intelligent greedy "leaders" and a majority of
shit stupid sheep without the brains to recognise the coming slaughter.

[bhikkhu]

28. It is a wake up call from the blissful cornucopian dreams

that render us productive laborers, voracious lemming-like consumers, and placid spectators of the political process.

[Kolesar]

29. We are at war with the energy industry...

...Perhaps the biggest industry in the world. They are brutally effective with their political contributions and misinformation campaign.

The bored and intimidated writers in the media are no match for these titans of the policy debate. Cross the bush administration and you get your ass fired.

[hatrack]

33. There's also a religious (or "cosmological") factor in play here

If you've got a decent grasp on the physical sciences, biology, the history of the planet and the story of the life we're a part of, something like the climate breakdown we're now seeing and its likely consequences are, if not pleasant, then at least part of a pattern that's occurred time and time again. The pattern, for better or worse, is of recombinant DNA and RNA working together in suitable environments and powered by the sun and continually coming up with something new. (I am making the wondrously complex and amazing sound simple and commonplace, I know, but for the purposes of this shorthand argument, so be it.)

If you accept this pattern, you also accept its corollary - that for a very long time now, amazing, varied and complex life has gotten squashed - whether by sudden climate shifts, asteroid strikes, massive volcanic eruptions, the closing of seaways through continental drift, whatever - and has been destroyed. The paleontological and geological evidence for this is overwhelming, whether we're talking about the end of the Cambrian, the Permian Extinction, the KT, PETM, whatever: Nature comes up with something new, and it may well flourish, and then time's up.

It's not terribly comforting, it says absolutely nothing about the quality of mercy or my worth as an individual, possessed of an immortal soul or not. But, judging by all the logic we possess and all the tools science places at our disposal, it is extremely likely that this is a true picture of how things have been for the last four billion years. And that may be a cold comfort, but it does place life in framework which is, if not cuddly, then at least comprehensible.

But take Joe GOP Fundie - and God knows, I've known plenty of them. Lots and lots and lots of them whom I've known lack any of the basics, and I do mean basics - what the sun is made of, how many planets there are, how fast light moves, etc. I'm fortunate to have always had a great deal of curiosity, which made learning science and geology and all an absolute joy for me, but it's not that way for a majority by a long shot.

So, combine generally appalling science education with fundamentalist religion and the general sense of being an unworthy sinner it tends to impart, along with human beings' sad tendency to do what they are told and to believe what is said by those in authority, and you've got millions and millions of people without any equipment at all to even comprehend what's going on. In addition, a friend of mine once said something very interesting: that most people he's worked with and known stopped growing emotionally at age 13, which I don't think is too far off the mark.

The result when things go south in a hurry for reasons that are scientifically fairly complicated? Supreme cognitive dissonance. These are people who may sense that things are changing really rapidly, that winters are not as cold and that the wrong birds are flying by out the window and summers are too hot and dry. But tell them that it's all part of a global pattern than may well take all of us out, and they're going to kick back against that just as hard as they can. Nothing in their experience has prepared them for something like this, and they are NOT going to want to hear or think about it.

It's kind of like someone telling them that they're not going to get to see Grandma and Grandpa in Heaven, but on an infinitely bigger scale, and trust me, most people don't want to hear THAT noise, particularly if they are 13 years old in emotional terms.

[hunter]

34. The most wretched 13 year old still expects mom will feed them.

Yeah, it's like that.

[phantom power]

35. Extra bonus: those people are now running America.

OFHWAD

[depakid]

36. Ignorance and the inability to think critically

Runs rampant among the rank and file, which makes them particularly susceptible to propaganda