Advanced composites for 40% lighter cars. very interesting link:

[JohnWxy]

http://www.rmi.org/sitepages/pid411.php

~~
Today's automakers have vast amounts of capital (including intellectual capital) tied to steel manufacturing, and they could be moving more rapidly to adopt advanced composites. One advantage composites have over steel stamping is that the cost of setting up a production line is much lower, effectively lowering a major barrier to entry. In the near term, advanced composite vehicles are ideal for niche markets where small, specialized production runs can be much more profitable for composite car manufacturers.

Beyond the economic reasons, a composite vehicle fleet would be safer than the steel juggernaut currently cruising the highways. By virtue of being stronger and stiffer than metals, advanced composites can absorb five times more energy per pound in a collision. And being lighter, advanced composite cars carry less momentum than heavier cars making collisions less deadly to the people they hit. Properly designed composite cars will thus be safer than similarly sized steel cars, and even more so if most vehicles on the road are made from composites.

Advanced composites are much more durable than steel: they don't corrode, scarcely fatigue, and can withstand small impacts without damage. Additionally, hybrid-electric drive components are expected to outlast conventional systems. This durability, combined with very high fuel efficiency, significantly lowers the cost of owning and operating a vehicle.

[rfranklin]

1. sounds great....don't see analysis of pollution for producing...

these materials versusthe steel industry.

[HereSince1628]

2. Convince the folks buying SUV's for the safety their size and weight

suggest or forget getting families to bring a fleet of these onto the road.

[NNadir]

3. Amory Lovins made a financial killing selling this claim.

He got people to fund a company called "Hypercar."

They were going to make great light weight cars. Of course they actually didn't build any cars. Rather than being bothered by actually producing what they hyped, they simply cashed out and declared themselves a composite materials company.

Now they've changed the name of the company - since they were actually completely unable to build cars - not that this prevented millions of internet links about their "concept."

Now they call themselves "FiberForge."

http://www.rmi.org/sitepages/pid1097.php

Maybe they should have called themselves "Hype Car." They convinced lots of middle class and upper class people - and let's face it, Amory Lovins is a rich consumer, so these are people just like him - that it was ethically acceptable to go on consuming fossil fuels while waiting for magic to happen and "Hype Cars" to spring into being. Except they didn't spring into being and fossil fuel demand became much, much, much, much worse, so much worse that it threatens all life on earth.

Of course Amory Lovins never apologizes about being full of shit, going back to the 1970's when he predicted, with great confidence, that electricity demand would go down. Except it didn't. It went up, causing people to burn even more coal, since Amory is anti-nuke.

I, of course, were I Amory Lovins - and I'm not - would be ethically conflicted by making enough money to live in my Snowmass aerie by selling snake oil. But he has no such conflicts. He spends his whole day thinking up even better schemes to make himself richer and more famous.

He just keeps counting the big bills and putting them in nice "green" piles. Then he issues new oracles, each as full of shit as the last.

[whistle]

4. Composites are petroleum based materials are they not? Remember

....peak oil. Also, take a look at the older RVs and comercial buses and tractor trailor semis on the roads which have used composites for several decades. The composites often crack, chip, craze, dull and look pretty beat up over time.

[freethought]

5. That's true! But those composites

are used on body panels and the like. I believe that what is being suggested is using these composites in parts of the support structure(frame) and drive train parts where a majority of a vehicle's mass is contained. Most of those parts would be under the car out or view.
On its face it sounds like a good idea for safety and fuel consumption reasons. You can already get various parts made from graphite fiber/resin composite but they are quite expensive and sometimes give off hazardous fumes during the curing process. I would have to learn more of the types of composites they have in mind and the resources used to make them.

[JohnWxy]

6. That site was lacking in any details. that's in part why I posted it. I thought

somebody might have more detailed knowledge on this or would know where to find it.

Ordinarily I would say if there was a cost effective way to reduce weight, detroit would be all for it. But,,, who knows, maybe somebody does have a better idea that the big three have been too quick to dismiss or have too much inertia to try to make it work.

[freethought]

7. Yeah, I was just throwing out what little I knew.

I know if you're one of the "Fast and Furious" culture you can get parts of graphite fiber composite for your hot rod. But I would be willing to bet money those parts aren't cheap. A few years ago I was going through a "American Choppers" fever and I was buying magazines about custom motorcycles and how to build kit bikes. One company came out with a motorcycle frame that was totally made of graphite fiber/resin composite. Much lighter than the welded steel tubing. The price was 4x-5x more than a standard steel frame. Pricey!

I have seen bodies and frames made of aluminum that are lighter than steel but are not nearly as strong in an accident. I guess the parts bend or break too easily.