10% Ethanol Gas (or maybe RFG) is RUINING my car!!!!

[suziedemocrat]

It stalls and sputters down the road and I have to add gas additives almost daily to get it to run. I'm in Massachusetts for a contract, and I am almost certain my problems are due to the gasoline out here. I found a few sites to back me up.

It's not worth it to me to buy 10%ethanol gas if my car stalls non-stop!

http://www.jwardell.com/mini/2006/06/27/ethanol-gas-problems/

Gas station’s tanks may not be completely sealed, and heavy rains may get water into the tank–and we all know New England has had record rainfalls this spring. In fact it is normal for stations to have water at the bottom of their tanks, but remember gas won’t combine with it so it doesn’t get pumped, until ethanol is added and absorbs that water. The only way to avoid this is at the beginning of each summer when the switch is made to E10, the station must flush and clean out its tanks. You know most stations won’t bother doing that. As a result of all of this, the actual concentration of ethanol going into your tank may be much higher than ten percent–you have no way to tell–and you have no idea how much water is absorbed in it as well. It should be worse at the beginning of the season or after a lot of rain, then slowly improve.

http://www.aa1car.com/library/us10325.htm

"Reformulated gasoline" (RFG) is now required in many urban areas to reduce air pollution. RFG requires extra refining to remove aromatic chemicals, and uses higher amounts of "oxygenates" such as MTBE, ETBE or ethanol alcohol. This raises the cost of RFG 2-10 cents a gallon and reduces its energy content about 1-3%. But the EPA insists the benefits outweigh the tradeoffs.

There is some evidence to suggest that RFG doesn’t keep very well if allowed to sit in a vehicle’s fuel tank for long periods of time (say 8-10 days or more). According to one engine builder, the ingredients separate and absorb water, which can lean out the fuel mixture excessively and cause driveability problems. Vehicles that sit unused for long periods of time, therefore, can benefit from a dose of fuel stabilizer in the gas tank.

...

Dirty Gas
Another problem you may encounter from time to time is gas that’s been contaminated with dirt, water or other liquids. Many filling station pumps have a filter that keeps dirt and corrosion that has settled in underground tanks from getting into their customer’s fuel tanks - assuming they maintain the filters properly. But these filters won’t remove water. Alcohol attracts water, and if there’s enough water present it can make the alcohol separate from gasoline.

[valerief]

1. I've only had the sputtering problem at one particular gas station,

so I don't go there anymore. I don't have problem with the others. I figured the owner was diluting the gas with something. I thought all gas stations used ethanol anyway, and since I only have a problem with one station, I wouldn't think it was the ethanol.

[suziedemocrat]

2. Yes, it could be this one station I go to. It looks nice, new and clean, but the tanks may leak?

[LTR]

3. What kind of car do you have?

And what year is it?

Most cars built after 1990 are designed to accept 10% ethanol, particularly in northern states that use it more often. Many problems attributed to RFG has been erosion of rubber gas lines. This problem is corrected in newer vehicles, and quite a few nowadays are designed to allow E85.

RFG could be causing the problem. One thing you could do is run a tank of higher octane gas. That's worked for me sometimes. Has the fuel filter been changed recently?

[suziedemocrat]

4. 1996 Seabring convertible - haven't changed the fuel filter in a while.

Thanks for the advice. I HAVE been buying the lowest octane AND I haven't been driving it much at all lately, so my tank has been full for over a week. It's a catch 22, I don't drive because it sputters and stalls, so I never get rid of the bad gas.

[darkmaestro019]

5. Texaco gas did that to my El Camino.......

It was easy to get to that station from my work, and my stepdad INSISTED they put water in the gas....I finally switched to a Hess for awhile and lo, much better driving. I thought it was BS too until I tried it.

Weird for him to be right about something like that; he's tinfoil-hat even for me about certain things...

[IowaGuy]

6. different areas of the country get different gas formulations...

so I would not extrapolate my experiences to being universal, however...I've been burning 10% ethanol in my personal cars for almost 2 decades with no ill effects...despite the slightly different BTU content, any gas mileage difference is negligible and has more to do with driving habits, etc than the fuel differences itself. Fuel injectors and even carburetors (one of my vehicles is an old Chevy 84 pickup w/ a 350 - 240,000 miles) stay cleaner, and have no issues with gas line freeze-up like was common before ethanol (in fact, we used to add a gasoline additive called Heet to our gas tanks at every fillup in the winters - which was essentially alcohol to combat gas line freeze up.)

Sorry to hear your troublesome experiences...but there may be other explanations rather than just insinuating a blanket condemnation of ethanol as being the ultimate cause of your problems.

Most of the off the shelf additives that are added to gasoline - as you have been adding are actually octane boosters. The higher the octane...the slower the fuel actually burns (which actually helps gas mileage and creates a cleaner burn). Here in Iowa, the ethanol blends sold here actually have a higher octane level than regular gasoline.

The lower octanes will cause engine run on (dieseling) and stalling and sputtering as you describe...I would check out the actual octane ratings of the fuel you are buying and make a comparison that way, rather than ethanol content. I would almost bet there would be a more direct correlation between your performance experiences and those numbers than the presence of ethanol.

As to the use of fuel stabilizers in tanks that sit for long periods of time...uh, yeah, nothing new about that - I've have used those since I was a kid mowing lawns in the 60's, been a fact of life as long as I've been around. Doesn't really have anything to do with ethanol. MTBE's have been used in gasoline for decades and have just recently been started to be regulated against because of their carcinogenic toxicity and the alarming levels of it we are finding in ground water now...a further reason to switch to ethanol.

[soothsayer]

7. try a wee bit of acetone in yer tank.

that's the main ingredient in fuel cleaners.

[90-percent]

8. also

isopropol alcohol anti-water-in-gas treatment may be good. sounds like alot of water got in the bottom of your gas tamk.

dont get the other types of anti water, gotta be isopropol.

acetone may be a bit severe, esp if you use too much???? just asking?

-85% Jimmy

[suziedemocrat]

9. Thanks a lot! I'll buy some ISO-Heet tomorrow!

And get the fuel-filter changed, and switch gas stations. Thanks everyone!