US, China Balking At New IPCC Recommendations For Quick Climate Action - AP

[hatrack]

BANGKOK, Thailand (Map, News) - The United States and China want to amend a major report by U.N.-sponsored climate researchers to play down its conclusion that quick, affordable action can limit the worst effects of global warming, according to documents reviewed Monday by The Associated Press.

The critiques, among hundreds of government comments on the draft document, are the prelude to what is expected to be a contentious weeklong meeting as scientists and national delegations wrangle over final wording in the report of the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change, to be issued Friday.

Two previous IPCC reports this year painted a dire picture of a future in which unabated greenhouse gas emissions could drive global temperatures up as much as 11 degrees by 2100, and said animal and plant life was already affected by warmer and rising seas, spreading drought and other effects. The upcoming third report will look at technologies and policies that could help head off damaging climate change, and at what cost, and discuss feasible goals for setting a ceiling on greenhouse gas accumulation in the atmosphere.

EDIT

The U.S. wants clauses inserted saying the cost of available technologies to reduce emissions and stabilize greenhouse gas concentrations "could be unacceptably high" and calling for a greater emphasis on "advanced technologies," many of which are aimed at extending the use of coal. The United States and China also criticized the draft's economic projections, which conclude that stabilizing gases to establish the 2-degree-Celsius ceiling would cost less than 3 percent of the global gross domestic product (GDP) over two decades - compared with 3-percent yearly growth currently. China complained the number of studies supporting that optimistic forecast is "relatively small."

EDIT

http://www.examiner.com/a-702961~U_S__Balks_at_New_Climate_Report.html

[drm604]

1. Nice to know China is with us on this.

Glad to see we're in good company! :sarcasm:

[NNadir]

2. Do you know where one can find the 2007 status report?

I haven't been able to find it on line.

[muriel_volestrangler]

3. 'Status' report?

If you mean the full physical science basis report, it's now online (from today) at the IPCC sites: http://ipcc-wg1.ucar.edu/wg1/wg1-report.html

If you mean the 'mitigation' Summary for Policy Makers, I don't think anyone's put a recent draft copy online - but it has been (partially?) seen by some, such as The Guardian.

[razzleberry]

4. since a ton of carbon offset only costs a dime ...

the words of the IPCC

>The mitigation costs through forestry can be quite modest, US$0.1–US$20/tC in some tropical developing countries,<

http://www.grida.no/climate/ipcc_tar/wg3/156.htm
second paragraph

It would seem that a dollar a year would
solve the problem

[drm604]

5. I fail to see how you come up with that.

According to your source, the cost is anywhere from 10 cents to $20 per ton of carbon (tC) in some developing countries. In developed countries it ranges from $20 to $100 dollars.

The mitigation costs through forestry can be quite modest, US$0.1–US$20/tC in some tropical developing countries, and somewhat higher (US$20–US$100/tC) in developed countries.

But let's assume for the sake of argument that it does always cost 10 cents per ton. $1.00 a year would mitigate 10 tons of carbon a year. That's a drop in a bucket. Current emissions are in gigatons (GtC, a billion tons) per year. http://www.grida.no/climate/ipcc_tar/wg3/figspm1.htm

[razzleberry]

6. meant to write, a dollar a year per capita

rough estimates...


Canada, 600 million M. tons per year

a cut of a third, gets Canada close to their Kyoto obligation.

200 million, times ten cents, equals 20 million.

which is next to nothing.
problem solved

[drm604]

7. Not solved.

Ten cents is only the lower end of the range in some countries, I have no idea how many or how few.

The article is talking about mitigation through forestry. How many acres in the ten cent countries are available to be planted with trees that aren't already forested, settled, or needed for agriculture? Are there enough acres available to offset all of those billions of tons? Won't the cost rise as more and more land is used up? Is there enough land at any cost?

It's even more complicated than that. Read the rest of the page you linked to. It covers a number of issues.

[razzleberry]

9. there is a reason the price will collapse

just for the record, my opinion is that most/all
carbon offsets are frauds, I have not seen one
I consider legit. with that said
................

the whole offset scam, is a race to the bottom.
there is just no end to...claims of...
avoided deforestation (do nothing, get paid)
avoided land use change (do nothing, get paid)
cancelled plans for a power plant (do nothing, get paid)
avoided destruction of an underwater kelp forest (do nothing, get paid)
expanded bus service (would happen anyway, get paid)
etc

[Gregorian]

8. A bit of heresay from me.

Over the weekend I was talking with someone who mentioned the automobile industry in China. Apparently they are manufacturing cars that are somewhere in the $1700 range. Of course, bicycles are on the decline. But this business of cheap cars has me rather worried. This indicates that they are doing nothing short of a full steam ahead towards the trappings of a modern society. All at a time when we simply cannot afford it. I have yet to do any research on this. But I can say that if 300 million Americans are using up a fifth of the energy resources of the world's consumption, then a billion or so people driving even the most efficient cars is going to be cause for great worry.

Like I said twenty years ago, Just wait until they want hot water. Well, that day has arrived. And who can blame them?

And for some unknown reason, I feel like posting this. And I apologize.






Grandmaster Flash New York New York Lyrics
New York New York, big city of dreams
And everything in New York ain't always what it seems
You might get fooled if you come from out of town
But I'm down by law and I know my way around

Too much, too many people, too much (aha-ha)
Too much, too many people, too much, Raaah!

A castle in the sky, one mile high
Built to shelter the rich and greedy
Rows of eyes, disguised as windows
Looking down on the poor and the needy
Miles of people, marching up the avenue
Doin’ what they gotta do, just to get by
I'm living in the land of plenty and many
But I'm damn sure poor and I don't know why

Too much, too many people, too much
Too much, too many people, too much!

A man's on a ledge, says he's gonna jump
People gather round, said, "He won't he's just a chump"
’Cause he lost his job, then he got robbed
His mortgage is due and his marriage is through
He says he ain't gonna pay no child support
Because the bitch left him without a second thought
He got nothing to eat, no shoes on his feet
She even left his clothes out in the street
He keeps hearing noises when he's at home
He always hears voices when he's all alone
His wife took the kids, the car and the crib
In this man's world, so much for Women's Lib

New York New York big city of dreams
But everything in New York ain't always what it seems
You might get fooled if you come from out of town
But I'm down by law, and I know my way around

Down in the Village, you might think I'm silly
But you can't tell the women from the men sometimes
They're sugar and spice and everything nice
But when you get ‘em home ain't no telling what you find
Right next door is a little old man
I seen him eating dog food out of a can
He says, "I got to eat, when I can't afford meat
I barely can stand, on my own two feet
I got a bad habit and I just can't break it
Something’s on my mind and I just can't shake it
I need some time, and I want some space
I gotta get away from the human race�?

Too much, too many people, too much (aha-ha)
Too much, too many people, too much! Raaah!

Staring at a skyscraper reaching into heaven
When over in the ghetto I'm livin in hell
Just play ball or be an entertainer
’Cause niggaz like me can't read too well
Nobody loves me, nobody cares
I dreamed about a life but I'm livin in a nightmare
Paranoid schizo, set back, snowbound
Bad news psycho, heart attack, breakdown!

Hee, Huh, Hee, Huh, Hee, Huh, Hee, Huh
Hee, Huh, Hee, Huh, Hee, Huh, Hee, Huh
Hee, Huh, Hee, Huh, Hee, Huh, Hee, Huh
Hee, Huh, Hee, Huh, Hee, Huh, Hee, HUH!

If only I could sleep just ten more minutes
I might find the strength to make another day
If I didn't have to get up and do my thing
I would probably sleep my whole life away
I messed up a nice dream, somethin’ bout ice cream
Whipped cream, fruits and a cherry on top
Now I gotta get up and face the world, huh
The pressure is on, It ain't never gonna stop
I sho' gotta learn to use my mind
I don't wanna be kissing nobody's behind
Just standin’ on line lookin’ like a jerk
Gotta get off my butt and do a full day's work
I ran into a pothole, got into a car crash
Should’a been thinking and tried to fake whiplash
A crowd gathered round, they're callin’ me fat
Who you lookin at with a face like that?

New York New York big city of dreams
Everything in New York ain't always what it seems
You might get fooled if you come from out of town
But I'm down by law and I know my way around

On 42nd Street, lookin for some action
Women standing on the corner selling satisfaction
One young punk just leaning on the fence
Tryin’ to make a dollar out of fifteen cents
Really is a prankster, tried to be a gangster
Real big wheel when a gun is in his hands
Just did a stick-up, just got picked up
One dead punk, killed by the man

New York New York big city of dreams
And everything in New York ain't always what it seem
You might get fooled if you come from out of town
But I'm down by law and I know my way around

Too much, too many people, too much (haha ha ha)
Too much, too many people, too much! Huh!

A baby cries and a mother dies
And the tears fall from the doctor's eyes
Because in this room, on this day
The Good Lord has giveth, and taketh away, huh!
The gift of life really means a lot
And in the ghetto your life is all you got
So you take to the streets, trying to exist
In the trash and slime of a world like this
What you watch on TV tells you what life is supposed to be
But when you look outside the only thing you see
Is the poverty stricken reality, Heh!
Abandoned places, angry faces
Much hate and hunger throughout the races
You say, "I'm grown and I'm on my own
So why don't everybody just leave me alone!"
Now you stay at home, talking on the phone
Doin ninety miles an hour in the fifty mile zone
They never took the time to tell you ‘bout sex
So you had to learn about it in the discotheques
Nine months later, the baby is there
And the Nigga that did it said, "I don't care!"
You don't have enough money to help feed two
So you have to choose between the baby and you
The sky was crying, rain and hail
When you put your baby in the garbage pail
Then you kissed the kid and put down the lid
And you tried to forget what you just did, Huh!
The muffled screams of a dying baby
Was enough to drive the young mother crazy
So she ran in the rain trying to ease the pain
Huh huh, And she drove herself insane

New York New York big city of dreams
But everything in New York ain't always what it seem
You might get fooled if you come from out of town
But I'm down by law and I know my way around

Too much, too many people, too much (haha ha ha)
Too much, too many people, too much! HUH!

New York New York big city of dreams
But everything in New York ain't always what it seem
You might get fooled if you come from out of town
But I'm down by law and I know my way around

Too much, too many people, too much (haha ha ha)
Too much, too many people, too much