Biggest argument against corn ethanol.

[Xithras]

While many plants can be distilled into ethanol, the favorite plant for the job seems to be corn. Why? Because it's easy to grow, will grow in most soils, and is fairly resistant to diseases and pests. It also offers farmers a choice, permitting them to sell their crops for human consumption or cattle feed if the ethanol bubble bursts. But there's a downside:

The Water Education Foundation says it takes about 118 gallons of water to grow a pound of corn. According to the U.S. Department of Agriculture, you need 21 pounds of corn to create one gallon of methanol. That pencils out to 2500 gallons of water to make ONE GALLON of ethanol.

I got this information from an op-ed piece in the Modesto Bee today (http://www.modbee.com/opinion/story/13538510p-14142575c.html). The editor correctly pointed out that the industry goal in CALIFORNIA ALONE is to begin producing one billion gallons of ethanol a year once the plants are up and running. That works out to 2.5 TRILLION gallons of water. For California alone. If we in Northern California were to wave our middle fingers at our southern neighbors, take 100% of their water allotment from the Delta, and use it to grow ethanol-bound corn, there wouldn't be enough. That amount of water would completely drain several Northern California reservoirs every year...resorvoirs that require 4-5 years to refill in WET years.

We must stop the ethanol freight train before it runs us all down.

[razzleberry]

1. A lot better than petroleum ..n/t

[Javaman]

11. Actually no, because the current ethanol production is based upon the concept

that the crop will be fertilized with fossil fuels and the tractors will also be powered by fossil fuel. So it's just as bad as petro.

[GliderGuider]

12. The Idea of ethanol is better than the idea of petroleum

Unfortunately, when the idea leaves the station and chugs into the real world, the reality of ethanol loses its advantage in one hell of a hurry.

When I see a closed cycle ethanol plant that gets all its exogenous energy from the sun and produces a surplus of fuel with no degradation of the soil, water or air, I'll be a believer. Till them I'll take my ethanol over ice.

[Maine-i-acs]

2. This assumes that all the water is taken from the reservoirs

What about rain?
I agree that irrigated corn depletes water reserves though. And corn is not the total answer. Cellulosic methods will elipse anything that corn can bring us.

But corn, agribusiness giants and mega subsidies will pave the way for better ethanol producing methods. I'm thinking about things like wood chips and scrap paper for example.

There is no easy quick answer, but each gallon of oil not purchased from mideast tyrants is a victory.

[phantom power]

5. I think the future of rain is dubious.

Have you seen the US drought maps lately? Or Australia? Or Europe?

[jpak]

7. Global warming will accelerate the global hydrological cycle and increase rainfall

in mid- to high-latitudes.

That's the consensus from the latest IPCC reports.

Furthermore, both the 2001 and 2007 IPCC assessments forcasted an *increase* in North American agricultural production - not a decrease - as global warming procedes...

http://www.grida.no/climate/ipcc_tar/wg2/index.htm

www.ipcc.ch/SPM13apr07.pdf

Here's the March 2007 Long Term Palmer Drought Index.

http://lwf.ncdc.noaa.gov/oa/climate/research/prelim/drought/pdiimage.html

With the exception of the Southeast, most of the Corn Belt and Eastern US agricultural areas are not in a long term drought condition.

US corn production last year was much higher than the 2001-2003 period - despite what many believed here on DU...

http://www.dailyfutures.com/grains/

Finally, organic agricultural methods outperform conventional methods during droughts (or other weather extremes) and can be used to maintain agricultural output during periods of rainfall variability.

Global warming does not mean "drought everywhere all the time" - there is no scientific evidence to back that up - and it cannot be used to bash ethanol (which is part of the solution to global warming).

ugh

[NNadir]

9. So let me get this straight. Now we're cheering for climate change?

The reason? We can grow more corn?

Let's all cheer on climate change! It's good for our cars!!!!! It says so in the IPCC report!!!!!

Fuck it if half the world goes under water, and two billion little brown people die in droughts!

It's good for our cars!!!! It's good for our cars!!!!

This reminds me of when they asked Admiral Doenitz (after he was released from Spandau Prison) about what Germans should remember about Hitler. Doenitz's reply? "The wonderful way he solved the German unemployment problem."

Ethanol is not part of the solution of the global climate change problem. Instead it's largely a shell game scam to try to save the car.

The global climate change problem is caused in part by cars. It's not caused by rice. It's not caused by the complete failure of renewable energy advocates lead by Governor Hydrogen Hummer to install a brazillion solar roofs.

Just this side of climate change deniers is the squad that says, "Climate change will be wonderful, sort of like Miami Beach in New Hampshire." No Maine will not have a pleasant Pensacola like climate; it will be a fucking disaster zone picked over by refugees.

As a matter of fact, climate change is not predictable. It's unpredictable and that's the fucking problem.

[phantom power]

13. I know what I'm reading...

I'm reading two kinds of stories. One kind is about crop shortfalls and/or failures due to drought.
The other kind is crop damage due to increases in violent storms and flooding.

So far, I haven't read any stories reporting increases in agricultural production, of any kind of crop, due to climate change.

But yes, I agree completely that some places will get more rain. I think the global effect on agriculture is clearly negative, not positive, regardless of any future localized improvements (none of which I've read about, yet).

[NickB79]

14. Increased hydrological cycle = large, violent storms followed by high rates of evaporation

A large storm that dumps 5 inches of rain (probably accompanied by hail, heavy winds, tornadoes, etc) in one day, followed by high temperatures that bake the ground and evaporate away a lot of that rainfall.

Sounds just wonderful for crop production. I'm sure my family will do great trying to work on the farm in 100F weather and 90% humidity in central Minnesota :sarcasm:

[jpak]

15. These are the estimated changes in US agricultural production from the 2001 IPCC report

From Table 15.3

- Spring Wheat +17 to +23
- Winter Wheat -9 to +24
- Soybean and Cotton +2 to +5
- Corn +11 to +20
- Soybean +7 to +49
- Sorghum +32 to +43
- Potato +7 to +8
- Citrus +13 to +40

That's the consensus science - if people have a problem with it, not much I can do about it...

edit: this is from the most recent (2007) IPCC assessment...

<snip>

Moderate climate change in the early decades of the century is projected to increase aggregate yields of rain-fed agriculture by 5-20%, but with important variability among regions. Major challenges are projected for crops that are near the warm end of their suitable range or depend on highly utilised water resources. ** D <14.4>

<snip>

[Xithras]

6. There is no rain here during the summer.

Something like 98% of northern California's rain falls between November and May. The other half of the year, the growing season, is rain free with sunny skies and 100 degree plus temperatures. It's a non-monsoonal desert climate that happens to be very fertile when irrigated. The ONLY way to farm this region is to capture the water in reservoirs in the winter, and then charge the canals from the reservoirs during the spring and summer.

The only rain crops that grow around here are tumbleweeds. And they want a billion gallons a year from this state!

[Poiuyt]

3. Plus the milk prices have been going up

Corn is the main feed for dairy cattle. The demand for corn going to the ethanol plants means less corn for the cows and less milk.

[Kolesar]

4. Farmers looking for a new market should explore "locally produced food"...

... as an "energy solution" (lower transportation costs), and as a high-margin "gourmet" product.

How's that for messaging?

[kansasblue]

8. The same applies of your steak or hambuger...

It can take between 6 lb corn to 20lb corn to produce 1 pound of beef.

http://beef.unl.edu/FAQ/200401260.shtml

I'd really like ethanol so I'm very interested in the energy numbers.

kb

[Dogmudgeon]

16. It's factory farming that's the problem

Animal raising was industrialized before agriculture was, but the impact of factory-style agriculture is quickly catching up.

Niche ethanol (e.g., ethanol produced on farms for use in farm equipment) could save us from agricultural disaster, but widespread corn ethanol production does not bode well for us. Once again, it is a problem of industrializing agriculture. Given their way, ethanol speculators would plant every square inch of soil with anything that could be fermented into ethanol.

It's a sure bet that we are going to learn the meaning of the word "holistic" the hard way in the near future.

--p!

[Strelnikov_]

10. Corn can also be readily stored for long periods

Another reason it is an important crop.

[suziedemocrat]

17. Is your agrument against ethanol from corn grown in climates w/o enough rain?

That's a specific complaint that doesn't apply to all regions that produce corn.

Don't get me wrong, I don't really like ethanol myself. I think it has been bad for my engine because it absorbs water from the atmosphere. I read how it is really bad for boats. Like here:

http://the.honoluluadvertiser.com/article/2007/Apr/11/ln/FP704110403.html

Ethanol fuel gunking up Island boats
By Dan Nakaso
Advertiser Staff Writer

Bob Hoevel's boat engine repair business has been jumping ever since the state mandated ethanol fuel sales a year ago, but even Hoevel couldn't prevent his own boat from breaking down recently in Kane'ohe Bay.

Like engines owned by other local boaters, his twin 40-horsepower Honda outboard engines suddenly started sputtering in the bay, "then just — poof — they conked out immediately," Hoevel said. He broke apart his fuel system while he bobbed along in the bay and found his ethanol fuel was saturated with water.

...

Ethanol that has more than a half percent of moisture introduced into it suffers "phase separation." The water pulls the ethanol and some hydrocarbons into a bottom layer that's difficult for engines to burn — while the lighter fuel floats on top.

"Alcohol attracts water like a sponge, and marine engines are surrounded by water all of the time, obviously," Hoevel said. "You're left with contaminated, junk gas."

I think that happened to me when I was in Massachusetts where the gas has 10% ethanol and we had a very rainy December. I wasn't driving much during that time (ethanol gas has a shorter shelf-life than regular gas) and I think my gas got saturated with water. I also read here: http://powerboat.about.com/od/maintenance/a/Engines_ethanol.htm that ethanol can "dissolve any accumulation of contaminates in the fuel tank and system and send the whole gooey mess through the system into the engine itself." Also, the ethanol can absorb water and separate in the fuel tanks at the gas station. I added fuel additives, changed the fuel filter and gas cap, started using Premium for the next few months and it helped a lot, but my car hasn't been the same since. I want to like ethanol, but the more I read about it, the less I like it.

[wtmusic]

18. Grow sugar and create twice as much ethanol with the same rain

Though it takes 400 gallons to grow one pound of sugar, sugar produces 7x as much ethanol...

(Oops! Dem-supported tariffs make it impractical. Nevermind.)