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Christine Todd Whitman: nuclear should stay about the same percentage it is now

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bananas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-01-07 11:10 PM
Original message
Christine Todd Whitman: nuclear should stay about the same percentage it is now
Silly me, I thought she was going to call for thousands of new nuclear power plants.
Instead, she's starting to sound like Al Gore.
The nuclear rennaissance gets smaller and smaller...

http://news.monstersandcritics.com/energywatch/nuclear/features/article_1298563.php/Why_Whitman_wants_nuclear_power

Why Whitman wants nuclear power
By Ben Lando May 1, 2007, 1:36 GMT

WASHINGTON, DC, United States (UPI) -- Former New Jersey governor and federal environmental chief Christine Todd Whitman is heading one of a growing number of coalitions urging the United States to keep -- and increase -- nuclear energy as part of its energy mix. She`s touring the country with the new mantra that nuclear power is safer and more efficient than ever before -- and, thanks to federal subsidies and potential climate-change legislation, economically competitive.

'It`s 20 percent of our energy now and I think we ought to make sure it stays at least at 20 percent if not 25,' Whitman said during an interview with United Press International.

'It`s not going to be the answer for everything and the be-all-end-all only form of power,' she said. 'But if you care about climate change and you care about air quality, nuclear power is really the only form of base power that doesn`t produce some of the regulated emissions and doesn`t contribute to global climate change.'

<snip>

Whitman, U.S. Environmental Protection Agency administrator from 2001 to 2003 after serving seven years as New Jersey governor, is now co-chair of the Clean and Safe Energy Coalition, CASEnergy. The organization, also co-chaired by activist-turned-capitalist Patrick Moore -- co-founder and ex-member of Greenpeace -- has launched a public relations and education blitz to convince the nation 'how nuclear power can contribute to America`s energy security and economic growth,' according to its Web site.

<snip>

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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-01-07 11:22 PM
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NickB79 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-02-07 01:59 PM
Response to Original message
2. Did you even read the news article?
Edited on Wed May-02-07 02:00 PM by NickB79
"'It`s 20 percent of our energy now and I think we ought to make sure it stays at least at 20 percent if not 25,' Whitman said during an interview with United Press International.

'It`s not going to be the answer for everything and the be-all-end-all only form of power,' she said. 'But if you care about climate change and you care about air quality, nuclear power is really the only form of base power that doesn`t produce some of the regulated emissions and doesn`t contribute to global climate change.'"

She flat-out says we have to AT LEAST maintain what we have now, suggests it shold grow above the current 20%, and says that nuclear power is the best choice for large-scale energy production to combat global warming.

The title is pretty misleading. She said it should stay at least where it is now, if not grow in the future.
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bananas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-02-07 07:49 PM
Response to Reply #2
6. Grow to 25% - not much more than it is now. nt
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NickB79 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-03-07 04:09 AM
Response to Reply #6
10. US electrical demand is growing
So, 25% of current electrical demand is not the same as 25% of US electrical demand a decade from now. What today might amount to 5-10 new nuclear reactors could very well be 15-20 in two decades, if nuclear power continues to cover the same percentage of US electrical demand.

You also don't seem to consider the dozens of new reactors we will need to build to replace the aging reactors currently in service that will likely need to be shut down in the next two decades. If Whitman is stating that we maintain nuclear power at 20-25% of US electrical demand, that does imply many new reactors being built in the US in the next two decades.
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bananas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-05-07 12:17 AM
Response to Reply #10
14. In this forum, that's considered an anti-nuke position
In this forum, the pro-nukes are a small but vocal and annoying group who think the only way to address global warming is by building thousands of nukes right away. Anything less they consider anti-nuke.

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Dogmudgeon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-02-07 02:45 PM
Response to Original message
3. "The nuclear rennaissance gets smaller and smaller ..."
Where? Did I miss something?

I have been under the impression that there are more reactors on order, and ongoing vigorous scientific research to make this safe form of energy even safer.

And constantly invoking Al Gore to dismiss nuclear power is disingenuous. Gore is in a tough spot WRT nuclear energy -- no matter how he feels about it, much of his base loathes and is terrified of it, often for no good reason. I suspect that like many people, his views on it are not simplistic and he has probably reconsidered it every which way several times. Alas, the day Al Gore comes out for nuclear power is the day there will be 200 indignant posts on DU proclaiming "Traitor! Whore! Cheney-lover! Al Gore just lost my vote! Harrumph!"

--p!
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NNadir Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-02-07 03:29 PM
Response to Reply #3
4. The anti-nuclear crowd used to tell us that nuclear phase outs were inevitable.
Edited on Wed May-02-07 03:30 PM by NNadir
They complain that nuclear energy is not too cheap to meter, but offer only fossil fuels or things more expensive than fossil fuels as alternatives.

They whine about "dangerous nuclear waste," but when you ask them, they cannot produce a single person who is injured, even as they remain indifferent to millions of people who have died from air pollution and indifferent to billions threatened by climate change.

The latest, apparently is whining that the nuclear renaissance is not bigger, even though they cannot show an exajoule of any of their pet forms of energy and that a few reactors will easily outproduce all of their blah, blah, blah wishful thinking.

The fact is that nuclear energy will reach 60 exajoules per year within 15 years almost certainly. It is the only form of energy that has a reasonable chance of displacing coal and everybody rational knows it.

The peanut gallery - which offers only criticism but no workable, proved technology - can whine all it likes, use "appeal to authority" arguments, including representing the disgraced former EPA head as some kind of "authority - she is no such thing - but they cannot stop the parade of people who are increasingly recognizing that nuclear energy is pretty much the only serious hope of the world.

The era of ignorance that informed the anti-nuclear paranoia is dead: The Netherlands has reversed its nuclear phase out; Belgium is in the process of abandoning it; Sweden is abandoning it; Italy is financing new nuclear plants in Slovenia, Slovakia and France. Only Germany continues to build coal because it has embraced the "Green" fraud.

The fact is that if Al Gore ever comes to power, he will too embrace the nuclear age his father did so much to create, if at least, he is interested in succeeding at his stated goal. There is no other option that can work on scale. I suspect that Al Gore knows that very, very, very well, no matter how many mindless, twisted distortions of his position are presented here.

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bananas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-02-07 07:22 PM
Response to Reply #3
5. Complete videos of Al Gore hearings at house.gov and senate.gov
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NNadir Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-02-07 09:09 PM
Response to Reply #5
7. Why don't you just point to the place where he calls for a nuclear phase out?
Edited on Wed May-02-07 09:17 PM by NNadir
Al Gore explicitly states that "I am not a reflexive opponent of nuclear energy."

You are a reflexive opponent of nuclear energy. Therefore you do not listen to Al Gore, but simply repeat his name in anti-nuke post after anti-nuke post attempting to assert in an example of an "appeal to authority" logical fallacy that his position is consistent with yours.

Therefore maybe you should try Dennis Kucinich, since you cannot understand what Al Gore's position is.

If Al Gore were a reflexive opponent of nuclear energy, he would be wrong, of course.

As it happens Al Gore is mistaken, though, on the subject of nuclear energy. He says "nuclear reactors come only in one size, large." This is surprising because the nuclear navy has many small reactors, and, Al Gore's father was instrumental in the building of the Shippingport nuclear reactor (60 MWe) and the nuclear facilities at Oak Ridge, which also had many small reactors.

It doesn't matter what Al Gore thinks about nuclear energy - and he is not a scientist. If he accedes to the office to which he was elected and attempts to address climate change he will fail without massively expanding nuclear energy. This is a matter of physics and not any particular religion.

However again, you disagree with Al Gore. You are a reflexive opponent of nuclear energy and he is not.

You are also one of the critics of the type that Theodore Roosevelt famously described.

It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face in marred by dust and sweat and blood; who strives valiantly; who errs, who comes short again and again, because there is no effort without error and shortcoming; but who does actually strive to do the deeds; who knows great enthusiasms, the great devotions; who spends himself in a worthy cause; who at the best knows in the end the triumph of high achievement, and who at the worst, if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who neither know victory nor defeat...


But here's the especially delicious part, since you take this oracular view of Al Gore's words, albeit twisted to your own spectacularly weak interpretation and given that you have no positive plan that you can offer for addressing global climate change:

Still less room is there for those who deride of slight what is done by those who actually bear the brunt of the day; nor yet for those others who always profess that they would like to take action, if only the conditions of life were not exactly what they actually are. The man who does nothing cuts the same sordid figure in the pages of history, whether he be a cynic, or fop, or voluptuary. There is little use for the being whose tepid soul knows nothing of great and generous emotion, of the high pride, the stern belief, the lofty enthusiasm, of the men who quell the storm and ride the thunder.


http://www.theodoreroosevelt.org/research/speech%20arena.htm

Fop! I love that now slightly archaic word. It fits every single reflexive anti-nuke I have ever met, ever read, or ever heard about.

I hear a lot of tepid, shallow, whining from people on this site who cower intellectually behind Al Gore, even while they ignore what he says, and even while they have no clue how to address climate change.

I have a proposal to address the 120 exajoules of primary energy produced by coal and you don't. Since I have a positive plan on which I propose immediate action - the building of thousands of nuclear plants - while you have nothing to offer beyond "Nuclear is bad! Nuclear is bad!" - I argue that I am in no danger of being a fop. The people who built the first nuclear reactors got themselves in the arena. They took risks. In so doing they provided to humanity a workable approach to save themselves.

You don't become a nuclear engineer by citing Chapter 2, verse 11 of the "Gospel according to Al." You become a nuclear engineer by mastering difficult course work in mathematics and the physical sciences.

Al Gore famously says in his film that there is less than 10 years to get a handle on climate change. I think he is wrong. We have already passed the point where we can control events. The best we can hope to do at this point is not to prevent catastrophe but to reduce the scale of the catastrophe. Climate change is irreversible already. Carbon dioxide molecules don't check with the Greenpeace website's predictions about 2050 before they heat the atmosphere. They heat the atmosphere right now with or without citations of chapter and verse of "The Epistle of Saint JPak to the Mainers."

Al Gore says that solar energy is a key strategy for addressing climate change. I think Al Gore is wrong when he says this, although I understand that he, as a politician who may run for office is inclined to tell people what they want to hear. Be that as it may, Al Gore could not produce enough material in ten years to make an exajoule of solar electricity, and thus he is wrong when he says this.

However Al Gore is right when he says that climate change is the most important threat facing humanity. This is his signature statement, and this effort on his part has made me understand this issue and to think about this issue. Note that I did not learn what I learned by limiting myself to reading Al Gore's books. In fact I never read Al Gore, since Al Gore is not a scientist and there is nothing more he can tell me that I already don't know. The IPCC mitigation report is coming out in a few days, and it will not say in that report "Just read Al Gore's book, page 17, page 23 and page 72." Instead, in almost boring detail, it will talk about nuclear energy as a vital and essential tool. I suspect that Al Gore knows too everything I am saying here, but let's face it, if he stated this truth, he would alienate a small but vocal (and stupid) portion of his base, just as Richard Nixon would have alienated a small but vocal (and stupid) part of his base by declaring in 1968 that the capital of China is Beijing.

Again, if Al Gore assumes the office to which he was once elected he may either succeed or fail. We all think he has the potential to be a great man, but then again, many people thought that James Buchanan had the potential to be a great man just as many people thought that Abraham Lincoln was destined to be a small man. Great men act not on dogma, but on the reality of events. Lincoln did not come to office declaring that slavery must die. On the contrary, he came to office saying that he accepted that slavery should live. Roosevelt is not a great man because he declared Stalin a beast with whom he could not cooperate, even though Stalin was a beast. Roosevelt was a great man because he worked with Stalin when he needed to do so.

Of course, nuclear energy is not beastly. Nuclear energy is the safest cleanest exajoule scale form of energy there is. It has already saved millions of lives, and supported by an educated public, could save many more. I am coming to know nuclear professionals lately, and almost every single one of them is proud of his or her contribution to humanity and justly so. These people work hard at a challenging task.

It is disgraceful that there are so many fops who shit mindlessly on this noble work, especially because there are no such fops who have done the work to understand what it is about which they so freely and mindlessly pontificate.

Every single person who dies from coal today dies unnecessarily, in spite of the hard work and effort of millions of nuclear professionals around the world. Let me repeat that: Every single person killed by coal dies unnecessarily.

There is nothing superior to nuclear energy. It is the best form of energy humanity has. That fact would not be changed if Al Gore suddenly became a Dennis Kucinich clone. All the websites in the world stating how wonderful tidal energy could be if it actually existed will change that. One billion windmill shredded rap tors would change that. Three thousand ICC coal plants would not change that. All the day dreams about sequestration in the universe would not change that. None of these strategies has a chance in hell of being as safe as nuclear energy and all the big talk coupled with no action will revive a single person killed by air pollution.

The purpose of all the solar/wind/tidal talk is to make people comfortable with denial. You scratch a millimeter deep on the surface of reflexive anti-nuclear dunderheads and you see it every time. (There was one anti-nuclear dunderhead here yesterday who was singing the praises of climate change because - get this - it will be wonderful for the ethanol growing season in the Midwest.)

Not one reflexive nuclear opponent on this website has ever produced a shred of evidence that nuclear power is more dangerous than its alternatives. But these people are not about evidence, since their most spectacular approach to evidence is to ignore it. They specifically ignore the vast risks of the forms of energy that they foppishly allow to continue unfettered, like coal, like oil, like natural gas and insist that alone among energy systems only nuclear need be perfect. Why? Because that fits their religion. Every single anti-nuclear fop on this website can cry for days about 31 people who died at Chernobyl, but there is not one, zero anti-nuclear fops on this website who gives a rat's ass about the largest energy disaster of all time, a renewable energy disaster, the collapse of the Banjo dam, that killed hundreds of thousands of people in a single night. Not one reflexive nuclear opponent on this site, not one, zero, gives a rat's ass about any of those deaths.

It is immediately clear to anyone who can count exajoules that if, on taking office, Al Gore caters to the stupid part of his base, the reflexive anti-nukes, he will fail.

People sometimes ask me why I use the word stupid so much. It's simply because there is no word in the English language that better describes some of what I hear.

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Kolesar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-02-07 09:20 PM
Response to Reply #7
8. What about Dennis Kucinich? ... eom
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NNadir Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-02-07 11:49 PM
Response to Reply #8
9. He's a fool.
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bananas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-03-07 07:09 PM
Response to Reply #7
11. .
Edited on Thu May-03-07 07:15 PM by bananas
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bananas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-03-07 11:18 PM
Response to Reply #7
12. I am not a reflexive opponent of nuclear energy
I even support research into thorium, gen 4, and fusion,
which might not have the problems and limitations of the current technology.

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NNadir Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-04-07 04:14 PM
Response to Reply #12
13. Bullshit.
You don't know enough about thorium, gen 4 and fusion to have an opinion.

Neither do you know anything about current technology, which is the safest energy technology of any existing energy technology.
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