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Is our culture's current strategy of "famine relief" a sustainable solution to relieving famine?

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greyl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-22-07 01:17 PM
Original message
Is our culture's current strategy of "famine relief" a sustainable solution to relieving famine?
Edited on Tue May-22-07 01:18 PM by greyl
I'm looking for evidence that it is, and would appreciate any help.
As I understand our current method, it is to put still more land under cultivation and send the surplus into so-called Third World areas whose population is already exceeding its carrying capacity, thus ensuring that there will be more starving people next year.

A less distressing question might be, "is our current strategy of filling supermarket shelves a sustainable solution to feeding ourselves?"

Thanks for any insight and links to solid data.
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XemaSab Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-22-07 10:16 PM
Response to Original message
1. You ask many difficult questions.
I don't have any actual figures, but I will say that ag subsidies exist to promote ag subsidies, not to feed people good food.

Secondly, famine usually has both an environmental and sociopolitical component.

We're very lucky to live in a big country with a lot of arable land. If there's a bad harvest in one region, the whole country isn't hosed.
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Nihil Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-23-07 04:31 AM
Response to Original message
2. Your current understanding appears to be accurate.
> ... send the surplus into so-called Third World areas whose population
> is already exceeding its carrying capacity, thus ensuring that there
> will be more starving people next year.

Of course the "interesting" time is in the near future when there
is no "surplus" to send abroad (indeed, there may be no surplus to
re-distribute internally either).

All of the wailing that "we don't do enough to help the Third World"
will be as a whisper compared to the coming hysteria ... and dying time ...
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Eugene Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-23-07 07:29 AM
Response to Original message
3. The assumption of starvation caused by too many people may not be valid.
Edited on Wed May-23-07 07:32 AM by Eugene
The U.S. encourages and even subsidizes food exports mainly
to support U.S. farmers. The big dispute in the latest free
trade negotiations is how developing countries are forced to
open their markets to subsidized imports, depressing prices,
undercutting local farmers, and discouraging self-sufficiency.

When a crop fails in Africa, previous years' surpluses may
have been sold off on the world market. The poorest people
cannot afford to buy back imported food at market prices.
That's where donated food aid comes in.

A surplus is often available elsewhere in the region. However,
donor governments prefer to buy and export food from their
own countries, even if that option is more expensive. The
practice keeps a lot of middlemen well paid. Charities like
Oxfam complain that the practice also serves to distort
markets and undermine food security in the longer term.

As for our own practices, U.S. and E.U. polices have been to
reduce production or even take surpluses off the market to
support prices. Try a Google search on "EU food mountain"
for example. There is plenty of food to go around, at least
in the near to middle term.
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bananas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-23-07 08:52 AM
Response to Original message
4. There's some good information at this link
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happyslug Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-23-07 09:30 PM
Response to Original message
5. Most Famines have been the product of Government Policy, not a lack of Food.
The Classic Example is the Irish Famine, where Food was EXPORTED from Ireland to England, and Food From the US was forbidden to be imported let the price of Corn in London drop to much (In fact the British Prime Minster of the time period lost his position for he tried to import food into Ireland to relieve the Famine). The worse part Ireland during the Famine was a NET EXPORTED OF FOOD, but no food for the Irish.

For More See
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irish_potato_famine

The Same with the Ukraine famine of the 1930s, Stalin wanted to Destroy any Resistance to his rule in the Ukraine AND pay for industrial equipment he was importing with Grain from the Ukraine, thus you had a situation where you had Famine while Food was being Exported.

http://www.faminegenocide.com/resources/ukraine_famine.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holodomor

Even the Chinese admit that their famine of the 1950s was caused as much by Government Policy as opposed to "natural Causes:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Three_Years_of_Natural_Disasters

The same for the Ethiopian famine, the Government used the Famine was a Weapon against people who opposed the Government:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1984_-_1985_famine_in_Ethiopia

Somalia had a similar backdrop, through this time it was local warlords using food (and the Denial of Food) as a weapon against their Enemies:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Restore_Hope

The thrust of these famine can quickly be seen, it is RARE for people to die of Starvation in the last 200 years UNLESS their Government is somehow involved (ether through Neglect as in Ireland, or deliberate policy as in the Ukraine). Thus the world reaction to send food DOES not lead to further famines, as long as the Government of the People involved no longer want to leave their people starve.

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HamdenRice Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-24-07 11:46 AM
Response to Original message
6. All of your premises are wrong so it's impossible to answer your question
Edited on Thu May-24-07 12:35 PM by HamdenRice
The idea behind famine relief is not "to put still more land under cultivation and send the surplus into so-called Third World areas" and moreover, these famines are not occurring where "population is already exceeding its carrying capacity."

I assume you are talking primarily about Africa where famines have been more frequent than elsewhere in recent decades.

On the first issue, you don't seem to understand the difference between famine relief and development assistance. The policy to prevent famine and reduce hunger adopted by most of the international community is not just short term food distribution through famine relief -- it's development assistance, ie, enhancing the capacity of poor countries to produce food for themselves and more equal distribution of the capacity to purchase food by the poor.

In eastern and southern Africa, that means helping African farmers make investments in agriculture, such as irrigation, improved seeds, fertilizer, better fallows, better market information, improved roads and improved storage. During periodic crises, the policy is to provide food aid to tide people over until conditions improve. Most development experts emphasize acquiring that food from within Africa, but as one poster has pointed out, farm lobbies in developed countries do use food relief as a means of marketing first world surpluses. But famine relief is a tiny, short term part of development assistance.

Your second false premise is that these countries are at their carrying capacity. I don't know why you persist in this false belief despite the many times others have tried to correct your false views with facts.

The primary natural cause of famine in Africa is not scarcity of land. It is irregular rains. (As another poster pointed out, natural causes precipitate famines, but the ultimate causes are entirely man made.) The main difference between agriculture in Africa and the agricultural regions of almost every continent is that African agriculture is rain fed. That means if there are no rains, there is no crop. That is also why, if African countries can make investments in water storage and irrigation it is expected that famines will cease.

If you travel by car across South Africa and Botswana (as I have) the single most remarkable feature of both countries agriculture is their control of water. Travelling west from the Johannesburg-Pretoria region to Botswana, whether you take the low veld route or highveld route you will come across dams -- giant dams public works like Hartebeestpoort dam, private football field sized dams, and even swimming pool size dams. Dams dot the South African countryside and a very significant portion of total rainfall runoff is captured. South Africa relies on rains, but can produce food whether the rains are good or not; it has excellent irrigation. Botswana is much drier and does not have enough consistent rains for rain fed agriculture, nor for dams to be useful; but because of the unique geography of southern Africa, whereby much of the rains that percolate down into South Africa run west underground in massive acquifers to Botswana. Botswana is dotted with wind-driven boreholes and water tanks the way South Africa is dotted with little dams. That's why such a dry country as Botswana nevertheless has massive cattle herds, using its semi-desert savannah areas to produce massive amounts of meat.

That's the kind of investment that eastern and southern African countries, including Ethiopia, ultimately want to create. They have no shortage of land; they have a shortage of investment.

The only African countries that can be said to have real land shortage issues for their farmers -- as opposed to man made land tenure and maldistribution problems -- are Rwanda, Burundi and Malawi. But even these countries could with investment increase output and none of the three has experienced famine.

Rather than stick to your counterfactual fantasies about the causes of famine, why not read this interesting article that recently appeared in the Christian Science Monitor. It shows some of the hurdles faced by Ethiopian farmers that keep them poor and hence vulnerable to famine when the rains fail -- for example, the excessive number of middle men who take most of the price of grain as it moves from the farm to the city:

http://www.csmonitor.com/2007/0223/p01s04-woaf.html

Market approach recasts often-hungry Ethiopia as potential bread basket

ADDIS ABABA, ETHIOPIA - Imagine if Ethiopia, that land of skin-and-bone children that defined African famine in the 1980s, could turn from the world's largest recipient of food aid into a bread basket, not only feeding itself, but its neighbors also.

It could happen...

Ethiopia is the second-largest maize producer in Africa, and yet Ethiopian farmers are getting poorer and poorer," says Ms. Gabre-Madhin, the head of Ethiopia's soon-to-be-functioning commodities exchange. "We're going to have to do something very dramatically different. The stakes are high."

There are 10 million farmers in Ethiopia, a country of 80 million, growing mostly cereals such as wheat, maize, sorghum, barley, sesame, and an Ethiopian grain called "teff." Yet, few farmers travel more than 12 miles from their homes in their lifetimes, so they have very little information about what their food would be worth if they did decide to sell it. When they do sell, they sell to a local trader, who then sells to another trader, and another, adding cost to the food when it finally reaches the consumer in large cities like the capital, Addis Ababa.

"The farmer doesn't know the price – he might get five cents here, but on the other side of the country, where there's a drought, he might get three times the price," says Gabre-Madhin. "So let's imagine the farmer goes to a warehouse where you have constant updates with the latest market prices. Now the farmer starts thinking nationally, not locally."

<end quote>

The article also discusses how purchasers cannot purchase grain directly from farmers because quality varies so much. Overall the system is chaotic, and rife with market failure.

Just consider the effect that cheap, foot powered, Chinese style threshing machines would have. Many African peasants thresh their grain by having their cattle trample it, then throwing it in the air for the wind to blow away the chaff. This means the grain is damaged, dirty, and disfavored by local urban consumers; a huge amount is wasted or lost. Threshing machines alone would increase effective yields drastically.

Consider storage. Olga Linares de Sapir, in her article "Agriculture and Diola Society," describes a community in southern Senegal that produces surpluses of both rice and peanuts almost every year. They store their surplus rice over their cooking huts so that the smoke discourages vermin like rats, mice and insects. But after two or more years, the stored rice has an unpleasant smokey flavor. The Diola therefore have developed a pattern of competitive giving away of old rice. Part of the article is quite humorous because this "old rice" is treated much the way north Americans treat Christmas fruit cake. If the Diola had modern storage facilities, markets and bank accounts they could accumlulate their surpluse rice or sell it and store the value of their supluses instead.

Once again, I would urge you to abandon your false, make-believe ideas of why famines occur or what the international community is trying to do to prevent them. Once you understand why Africans are poor and why some countries experience periodic famine, you will abandon the notion that withholding food aid during periodic famines is appropriate, and understand that such a policy is nothing but cruel and pointless, and accomplishes nothing other than death and destruction.
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HamdenRice Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-24-07 02:17 PM
Response to Original message
7. One more nail for the coffin of the "carrying capacity" argument
Ethiopia is probably more dependent on direct food aid than any other country in Africa. Yet note this sentence from an Ethiopian embassy website:

http://www.ethemb.se/ee_eth_econ.html

To start with, out of the sixty percent of its landmass which is known to have the potential for agricultural development, only 15 percent is said to have been developed. Although its contribution to the national economy is very limited, the country's livestock wealth is the 2nd largest in Africa.

<end quote>

Again it's a lack of investment and development, not that they have reached the "carrying capacity" of their resources.
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LWolf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-27-07 10:06 AM
Response to Original message
8. Sustainable? No.
A sustainable solution involves birth control, zero, (or, better, negative) population growth, and setting populations up to grow and raise their own food.

Do I advocate allowing masses to starve as a way to reduce population? No. I'm realistic enough to know that if people don't want to actively address population growth issues, starvation, disease, and war over scarce resources will continue increase. :shrug:
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