Graphic war footage from Fallujah and Ramadi (You are warned)

[Selatius]

This one shows a nighttime ambush of a US column in or around Fallujah. Just listening to the gunfire is incredible.

http://www.islamonline.net/arabic/news/2004-11/10/images/ahdath.WMV

This next one shows a suicide car bomber hitting what I believe to be a US armored personnel carrier, and there is other footage of US vehicles (tanker trucks?) on fire in the road after another ambush.

http://www.islamonline.net/arabic/news/2004-11/10/images/film002.WMV

[maxudargo]

1. Crazy fucking fundies

"Allahu Akbar! Allahu Akbar!! Allahu Akbar!!!"

Jesus Christ. So to speak.

[BJ]

3. Crazy, maybe. But would you do any less to protect your country?

[maxudargo]

7. Uh..

Would I sit there with a video camera screaming "God is great! God is great!!" while some suicidal lunatic drove a car-load of explosives up to a checkpoint and detonated it?

No.

[BJ]

16. That's not what I meant.

If, hypothetically, the United States were invaded, the armed forces disbanded and a foreign occupation power in total control and the only resistance was guerrilla bands forced into disparate measures, you'd do nothing less?

I'm sorry, maxudargo, but you're exhibiting a great deal of cultural insensitivity. That cultural insensitivity and lack of curiosity of cultures other than our own is what got us to this mess in the first place.

[maxudargo]

17. Jesus Christ. Or Holy Mohammed or whatever

Give me a break. I'm supposed to be so sensitive to Islamic culture that I don't dare speak a critical word when confronted with religious fanatics going bat-shit psycho?

It has nothing to do with Islam or the Middle East. We gots 'em right here in River City. They claim to have elected our president. Of course, they're less likely to blow things up, but I'm sure that would change if we were invaded. That doesn't mean I would suddenly see them as heroic.

[BJ]

19. I never said they are "heroic"...

...they, however, see themselves as such. Remember, in our war of national liberation Washington, Jefferson and Franklin were considered traitors or worse by the majority of the British ruling class.

And remember this, more Islamic "fundies" can read and speak English than Americans ca read or speak Arabic. And they are just as computer literate as you. So every time a smart American "disses" Islam or the Islamic culture, I'm sure it reverberates throughout the Islamic world.

[maxudargo]

20. Well, I'll be careful then

And you're right. I remember now that Washington died while driving his carriage, loaded with gunpowder, up to a British position and detonating it there while Alexander Hamilton and James Madison stood nearby screaming, "Praise Jesus!"

[BJ]

21. Reductio ad absurdum........

Point well taken, Praise.

[forgethell]

38. Guerilla bands, yes

beheading innocent hosages, executing tied up police officers, suicide bombings? No!!!

[Crunchy Frog]

5. Yeah, crazy fucking fundies

never should have carried out an unprovoked invasion of a country that did nothing to us.

I hope the fucking fundies who decided to invade Iraq rot in hell for what they've done.

[Buzz Clik]

8. I couldn't agree more. But...

Posting those videos isn't helping anything.

[physioex]

10. The American...

People have "spoken" this is what they wanted and shall get....

[Mojambo]

2. War is an abstraction until you see this kind of stuff

The other thing that strikes me is the way that video footage is put togther. It seems almost independent-film like in its presentation.

It was artful.

[hlthe2b]

9. So, who is going to buy their kiddies violent video games this Christmas?

:mad:

I just can't get over the scenes in F911 where some of our younger, more naive guys were turning the whole thing into a "game," and comparing it to a video game of war and death.

[mhr]

4. Too Bad The Insurgents Don't Understand That The Bush Administration

masturbates to this stuff.

They are only feeding the head freeper with more fantasy material.

[Name removed]

6. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[physioex]

11. So what you see on Faux News isn't propaganda?

Please.....Aside from the propagada what you see is what has happened.

[hlthe2b]

12. My prayers for your family in Falluja, Buzz Clik...

I'm not sure I understand your coment about "the Freepers are right about some you. You dance so close to the edge, you don't even know where the line is anymore."

I'm saddened that both our troops and the people of Iraq are going to suffer as pawns to the agendas of others. While the poster may have an agenda, do you think this extends to DUers in general?

[Buzz Clik]

14. DUers in general? Absolutely not.

Generally, this is a great board.

However, I cannot fathom why maxudargo would post this here. It serves no positive purpose for anyone anywhere except those who shot the movie.

[maxudargo]

18. Whoa, whoa, whoa

Maxudargo did not post this here. Look again.

[Buzz Clik]

23. my apologies... (n/t)

[puddycat]

22. information must not be suppressed.That is what the right-wing fascists do

Information must not be suppressed. It is the right-wing reactionaries who want to suppress even the photos of returning coffins. To them, all information is a danger, because they don't trust anyone to possess it.

Americans are and have been too isolated from death in general--perhaps that is why 59 million of them happily voted for a war criminal to continue being their President. They have no idea what trauma and violence are, isolated in their little wombs of pre-packaged consumer goods, buoyed by endless shopping.

[Buzz Clik]

24. So what you're saying...

is that we are giving free advertising to religious nutbags who kill anyone and everyone in sight simply for the sake of providing information?

That makes no sense.

[Selatius]

Posting this stuff is not tantamount to supporting the resistance

I don't support guys who kill our soldiers, and If I can't make that any more clear to you, then I don't know what would. Having said that, this simply goes to show you what our soldiers are going through out there and what they're having to put up with 24/7 in a country that hates our fucking guts. This is the REAL REALITY of war, something the news media won't show anymore. It's not a fucking push-button video game. This shit is no different than what people saw on television 40 years ago coming back from Vietnam. The only difference is that there wasn't music or some resistance fighter screaming, "God is great!" in Arabic, just the sounds of war and people dying.

I warned you beforehand before clicking on the damn links, but you went ahead and did it. It's painful, bloody, violent, and insane, but that's war. If you can't stomach that, then that should be more reason to oppose unnecessary wars.

I can't believe you'd actually compare me to a freeper. Just go back and reread some of my posts elsewhere on this board. I hate this war. Everytime I read the news I can't help but think about Vietnam. Why? Because my family lived in Vietnam during that war. They suffered years of violence before leaving after Saigon fell.

As a final note though, I hope those you know who are over there fighting make it home. I wish death on no one's head. Violence is the absolute last option in my book.

[Buzz Clik]

25. This is an enormous board, my friend.

I have been posting here for a few months but still know only a few posters well enough to understand their motivations.

I was not squeamish about exploding cars, but I certainly was real curious about your motivations. You'll note from some of the reactions, I wasn't the only one who thought you were applauding the resistance.

I apologize for misjudging you, but it would be helpful if you were a little more clear in you intentions when you post in the future.

[puddycat]

27. why do you keep posting about "motivations" ? What is YOUR motivation?

What is your motivation for getting so upset about this? If you don't like it, don't look.

Information is like a huge dinner buffet. You partake of what you want, but just because you choose not to eat the peas and carrots does not make those who do, suspect.

This reminds me of our government's view of information about Iraq: they have closed down the buffet completely, and are serving stale crackers instead.

[puddycat]

26. well, no wonder they hate our guts--we invaded their country without cause

[Mojambo]

15. Like it or not, propaganda is information

And people are ALWAYS entitled to information. They should be exposed to Fox News and they should be exposed to things like this.

No one is ill served by information, everyone is dis-served by its absence.

I'm very sorry to hear about your family. It is my most sincere hope for their continued safety.

[Dzimbowicz]

13. As a veteran, I must state

that for a convoy to be driving at night in, what this posting has it, a definitely hostile environment with full beam headlights is asking to be hit. Although it was been twenty-five years since I was a Marine, we, at that time, had a variety of night driving options: full black-out, black-out drive with cat eye markers, etc. Toward the end of my tour, we were even instructed in the use of goofy goggles (passive light intensifiers) which enabled one to see clearly in the dark. I can only imagine the technology which is available today....

This causes me to pose two questions:
1. Was the convoy commander incompetent, inexperienced (if so, the NCOs would have made the necessary corrections) or asking to be hit?

2. Are the US leaders trying to cause such incidents in order to justify an increase in the US military presence there?

As to the second video, I am unable to view it because the software in my computer wants too many downloads and I am unwilling to accept them.

[bemildred]

28. They both seemed funny to me.

Second shows a car, shows the car blowing up,
shows it burning, shows (I think) a Bradley burning,
show some vehicles sitting waiting, shows some secondary
explosions, shows a dead guy in a uniform in loving
detail.

I don't think either one means much. The first was more
coherent, but I share your concerns about the lights and all.
Could have been cars driving into Albuquerque for all you
can tell.

Great propaganda though, sort of the other side of the
"Marlboro Man" I guess.

[DemoVet]

30. Funny?

[bemildred]

31. Odd, you know, not right, faked a bit?

Get a grip.

[DemoVet]

35. That dead soldier wasn't faked

I got sick looking at him, and at both of these clips. If someone had time to do a leisurely pan of a dead G.I. then these convoys aren't being adequately secured, and I can see why that unit refused to go out last month. He had also been lying there for a while by the look of him. Where were the escorts, or are things so bad that we can no longer cover our supply lines and the insurgents are picking our troops off more or less at will? The insurgents are out making movies, for chrissakes, and distributing DVD's that will have enormous propaganda value for years to come. If things are going so well over there, how is it that they are able to do that?
BTW, I do have a grip. I don't know about any other combat veterans out there, but I had a strong reaction to these clips, and the work "funny" in the context of this post hit a nerve.

[bemildred]

36. "Funny" has more than one meaning, and humorous wasn't what I meant.

And that was obvious from my post. You are supposed to have a strong
reaction to the clips, they are propaganda, so in your case it seems
they have had the desired result. I was pointing out that they appear
to be patched together propaganda pieces. As IG points out the dead
guy is from last Spring. And the ambushers were using lights for the
video camera, and there was a lack of continuity in the car bomb piece.

With respect to your analysis of the military situation, I think you are
correct, and that it's been obvious for some time that the whole thing is
a bungle.

I suggest you put me on ignore I you can't deal with candid discussion.

[UpsideDownFlag]

34. not. fucking. funny.

at all.

[IndianaGreen]

29. Pfc. Moises A. Langhorst, 19, of Moose Lake, Minn.

That's the name I saw on the name tag of the dead GI. He was clearly a U.S. Marine. Here is the DOD release:

Pfc. Langhorst died April 5; all others died April 6. All died due to hostile fire in Al Anbar Province, Iraq. They were assigned to 2nd Battalion, 4th Marines, 1st Marine Division, I Marine Expeditionary Force, Camp Pendleton, Calif.

http://www.defenselink.mil/releases/2004/nr20040407-0534.html



Moose Lake honors second Marine to die in Middle East

Associated Press

MOOSE LAKE, Minn. — A month after burying a fallen soldier, most of this town of 2,200 gathered again to say goodbye to another Marine killed in Iraq.

A funeral service was held Friday for Pfc. Moises (Moy) Langhorst, 19, who died April 5 from hostile fire near Fallujah. In early March, Pfc. Matt Milczark, who graduated from Moose Lake High in 2003 with Langhorst, died in a non-combat shooting in Kuwait.

Seven white-gloved Marines in crisp dress blues stepped carefully as they carried Langhorst’s flag-draped wooden casket from Holy Angels Catholic Church. The sharp cracks of the rifle salute echoed through the nearby woods and hills. Slowly and precisely, a Marine folded the flag on Langhorst’s casket and marched crisply around it to present the flag to the young man’s parents.

Langhorst’s father, George, a former Marine, saluted back at the flag presenter. Many who attended rushed away from the church to shed tears privately in their cars.

http://www.militarycity.com/valor/257140.html

Don't ask me to choose between our Marines and a bunch a fundamentalist terrorists shouting "God is Great"!

[bemildred]

32. RIP Troop. nt

[UpsideDownFlag]

33. what in the fucking hell? how many times can you repeat "alluah akbar?"

im not sure which fundies are more scary.

[godblessthebeastinme]

37. if you lived here, you 'd already be home

http://fallujapictures.blogspot.com/

Please pass this on to people who haven't seen images like these.