GUNS IN THE NEWS - September 29, 2003

[CO Liberal]

[CO Liberal]

1. Teen who had gun at school released

Teen who had gun at school released

HELENA - A judge released a Helena teenager from a detention facility Thursday, days after the youth was charged with taking a loaded handgun into Helena High School.

Michael Tynan, 17, has been charged with a felony count of attempted assault with a weapon and a misdemeanor charge of possession or allowing possession of a weapon in a school building.

<more>

http://www.billingsgazette.com/index.php?id=1&display=rednews/2003/09/29/build/local/mt-teenreleased.inc

[CO Liberal]

2. Man charged, another sought in gun deaths

Man charged, another sought in gun deaths

By Aimee Edmondson
[e-mail]
September 29, 2003

Memphis police have charged one suspect and are looking for another in two separate Saturday night homicides.

Police have charged a Memphis man with second-degree murder after a fight at a south Memphis home.

Kenneth Wallace, 43, of 1890 Benford was charged in the Friday shooting death of Keokie Key, 28, of 1514 Parkway View.

Police said Key tried to stop a fight between Wallace and another man at 967 Porter when Wallace pulled a handgun and began shooting.

<more>

http://www.gomemphis.com/mca/local_news/article/0,1426,MCA_437_2306059,00.html

[CO Liberal]

3. Gun incident leads to charges

Gun incident leads to charges

ADDISON, Pa. — A Grantsville man has been charged with attempted homicide after he allegedly entered an Addison home early Friday and threatened to kill a man there.

Jeffrey Thomas Kelly, 38, also was charged with attempted robbery, aggravated assault, simple assault, burglary, criminal trespass, recklessly endangering another person and terroristic threats, according to the Pennsylvania State Police at Somerset.

Police said Kelly entered the Cypress Lane residence without being invited, pointed a gun at the 28-year-old victim and demanded all the man’s money or he would kill him. The victim grabbed the gun, and Kelly and the victim struggled. During the fight, the gun discharged once, striking a wall.

<more>

http://216.15.229.16/news/full_story.cfm?story_id=16417

[CO Liberal]

4. Police, feds seek 45 weapons stolen from gun shop

All of a sudden, I feel less safe here in Colorado..... - Wayne

* * * * * * * * * *

Police, feds seek 45 weapons stolen from gun shop

FREDERICK, Colo. (AP) - Police and federal authorities are investigating the theft of 45 handguns, rifles and shotguns from a gun shop.

The weapons were in a 700-pound safe taken from High Country Gunsmithing Friday morning. The safe was found in a stolen pickup in Lakewood Friday afternoon, but there was no sign of the weapons.

Police said Saturday they had no suspects.

''Anytime you have that many weapons out on the street, there is a great concern for the safety of citizens and fellow officers,'' police spokesman Gregg Lotspeich said.

<more>

http://www.trib.com/AP/wire_detail.php?wire_num=237378

[MrBenchley]

5. Gee, I thought

more guns equaled less crime....(snicker)

[CO Liberal]

6. Metro can keep guns off trains, buses

Metro can keep guns off trains, buses

BY KEN LEISER
Post-Dispatch
09/28/2003

Metro bus and light-rail passengers won't be able to carry concealed guns on the Missouri half of the transit system after Oct. 11 despite changes in state gun laws.

The agency's top lawyer said last week that the state's concealed weapons law won't trump existing regulations that forbid the public from bringing guns, knives or other weapons onto transit property.

"We can legally ban any handguns from any facility" or any light-rail vehicle, bus or Call-A-Ride van, said Metro General Counsel Celeste Vossmeyer.

<more>

http://www.stltoday.com/stltoday/news/stories.nsf/News/F1AF8476BE14273A86256DB00013B299?OpenDocument&Headline=Metro+can+keep+guns+off+trains,+buses++

[CO Liberal]

7. Two men shot in Optimist Park

I'll bet they're feeling a bit pessimistic right now.... - Wayne

* * * * * * * * * *

Two men shot in Optimist Park

9/29/2003 9:13 AM
By: News 14 Carolina

Police are still trying to figure out what happened when two men were shot Sunday night.

CHARLOTTE, N.C. -- Charlotte-Mecklenburg police are trying to figure out what happened during a shooting in Optimist Park.

Around 8:30 p.m. Sunday, police say they found bullet holes in a car and in a house, but they did not find anyone wounded.

A few minutes later, two men showed up at Carolinas Medical Center saying they had been shot.

<more>

http://www.news14charlotte.com/content/local_news/?ArID=41816&SecID=2

[MrBenchley]

8. Guns make Gary family safer....NOT

"Five people were found shot to death and another was wounded this morning in a Gary home, authorities said.
The shooting victims — all members of the same family — ranged in age from 2 years old to 82 years old, police said.
Among the dead was a man who had threatened suicide in the past, detectives said, and had been removed from the home on a previous occasion by a police SWAT team. "

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/chi-030927gary,1,1718675.story?coll=chi-news-hed

Thanks to the corrupt gun industry, the guy could walk into any gun show in Indiana and buy a gun without a background check....and the city of Gary couldn't have required a background check if they'd wanted to...

[Withergyld]

15. does the article state

the the individual bought the firearma at a gunshow, or is this your opinion?

You have to register to view the article, could you please quote the section in the article that states how the weapon was obtained.

[MrBenchley]

16. Gee, you mean that if he didn't

it's fine and dandy for gun shows in Indiana to go on selling guns to lunatics and criminals without a background check?

[Withergyld]

18. You did not answer the question

Does the article state where the shooter got the firearm?

The Bureau of Justic Statistics reported the following:

"According to the 1997 Survey of State Prison Inmates, among those possessing a gun, the source of the gun was from -

a flea market or gun show for fewer than 2%
a retail store or pawnshop for about 12%
family, friends, a street buy, or an illegal source for 80%"

http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/guns.htm

I really think our time could be better spent trying to prevent criminals from getting firearms from the third source (family, friends, a street buy, or an illegal source) listed then the first source (a flea market or gun show) which is less than 2%.

IMO closing the "gunshow loophole" would do little to prevent "lunatics and criminals" from getting firearms.

[MrBenchley]

19. And you didn't answer mine

And where do you suppose "family, friends, a street buy, or an illegal source" get those guns?

"IMO closing the "gunshow loophole" would do little to prevent "lunatics and criminals" from getting firearms."
Yeah,, surrrrrrrrrrre....

[Withergyld]

25. I don't think criminals ...

and the mentally incompetent should have access to firearms.

[CO Liberal]

20. Here's a Question for YOU, Wythergyld

Why are you apparantly so interested in keeping the gunshow loophole OPEN?

[MrBenchley]

21. You will notice howls of rage

from the RKBA crowd whenever it is mentioned.

[Wcross]

22. Gunshow loophole?

Is that like those "cop killer" bullets and "plastic guns" you people were howling about a few years back?
Why do you use the "gun show loophole" when you mean private sales? Do all private sales occur at gunshows?

First of all, a gunshow doesn't sell anything but tables to vendors. Some vendors are gun dealers and are required to do everything a gunstore would do when selling a firearm. Some individuals sell their personal firearms at the show. If they wanted to, they could sell them in the local paper or traders post. They could also post an ad on a bulletin board at work or the local corner store.

Lets start refering to it as the "personal sale loophole"-

You are making it seem as if every gun sold at a gunshow is sold without a background check when clearly that isn't the case.

Me- I don't have any problem with background checks.

[MrBenchley]

23. Gun show loophole, cross....

"Is that like those "cop killer" bullets and "plastic guns" you people were howling about a few years back? "
You mean the ones that Deadheart Dick Cheney was virtually the only lunatic in Congress to vote FOR? You've got the nicest ever playmates, cross...Cheney, Nugent and nutcase Larry Pratt.

[Wcross]

26. So the statement is correct?

Is it correct that you want background checks on all private sales or just private sales at gun shows?

As usual, you avoided the question. I sure am glad you took the time to respond, but it didn't make any sense.

By the way- no such thing as a plastic gun or cop killer bullets.

I just find it hard to understand how limiting background checks to gunshow private sales will reduce firearms crimes.

[MrBenchley]

27. If you're asking me

I'd prefer background checks on ALL gun sales, but will settle for just those at gun shows, and a ban on newspaper advertising.

"By the way- no such thing as a plastic gun or cop killer bullets. "
Sez you. Deadheart Dick Cheney sure thought there was when he voted FOR them.

"But Cheney has come under increasingly heavy fire for a number of conservative stances against popular gun control measures, funding for the federal Head Start pre-school program, and the Equal Rights Amendment for women.
Cheney defended two of his most controversial votes on the gun issue -- opposition to provisions banning armor-piercing "cop-killer" bullets and easy-to-smuggle plastic weapons -- mainly on legislative procedural grounds. "

http://www.cnn.com/2000/ALLPOLITICS/stories/07/30/talk.wrap/

"I just find it hard to understand how limiting background checks to gunshow private sales will reduce firearms crimes. "
Gee, what's so hard to understand? The shows are Tupperware parties for criminals.

[Withergyld]

28. Can you give a statistic

on how many criminals buy weapons at gunshows? I have shown that the number of criminals that purchase firearms at Gunshows is less then 2%(a few months ago I showed where it is less then 1%, use the "search" function and find it). You have not refuted this. Find some numbers. I have tried to use facts to support my opinion. What evidence is there that "The shows are Tupperware parties for criminals."
Until you can show proof other then your personal opinion on this matter (which I have acknowleged, but disagree with) I will not address this matter further as there is no way to refute an "opinion."

edited for grammer

[MrBenchley]

29. You going to trot out thatg load of hooey AGAINN?

"the number of criminals that purchase firearms at Gunshows is less then 2%"
And the rest buy them from people who buy them at gun shows....or crooked gun dealers.

"What evidence is there that "The shows are Tupperware parties for criminals." "
http://www.vpc.org/fact_sht/gunshow.htm

[Withergyld]

30. interesting

"And the rest buy them from people who buy them at gun shows....or crooked gun dealers."

So how will closing the "gunshow loophole" prevent these secondary sales?

As to the article you referenced, mostly speculation and inuendo with no substance.

[MrBenchley]

31. Who are you trying to kid?

<sarcasm>THAT's why the gun industry is fighting so desperately to keep this propped open...because so many of its gun show customers can get by a background check.</sarcasm>

"mostly speculation and inuendo with no substance"
Sez you.. Of course many of us put more weight on sworn testimony than we do on NRA propaganda.

[Withergyld]

32. My last question still stands unanswered

"How will closing the "gunshow loophole" prevent secondary sales?"

[MrBenchley]

33. Gee, I thought you were claiming

that there WERE none...and now you want to claim that closing the gun show loophole won't stop them.

I suggest you look at where the jello got nailed to the wall for the answer.

[Withergyld]

34. you are putting words in my mouth again

from post #18
"I really think our time could be better spent trying to prevent criminals from getting firearms from the third source (family, friends, a street buy, or an illegal source) listed then the first source (a flea market or gun show) which is less than 2%.

IMO closing the "gunshow loophole" would do little to prevent "lunatics and criminals" from getting firearms."

As much as you post about the "gunshow loophole" I get the impression that you feel this is a major source for criminals to obtain fireams.
My reply in post #18 quoted data indicating that less then 2% of criminals buy firearms from gunshows.

in post #19 you reply:
"And where do you suppose "family, friends, a street buy, or an illegal source" get those guns?"

in post #30 I asked:
"So how will closing the "gunshow loophole" prevent these secondary sales?"

Instead of answering the question, you put misquote me and then claim victory on the subject.
:eyes:

[MrBenchley]

35. Not hardly

"As much as you post about the "gunshow loophole" I get the impression that you feel this is a major source for criminals to obtain fireams. "
Yeah, I do....so why do you suppose "family, friends, a street buy, or an illegal source" go to gun shows where they can avoid background checks? Why do you suppose the corrupt gun industry is fighting to keep it open?

[Withergyld]

36. Why is a new law necessary?

Couldn't "family, friends, a street buy, or an illegal source" be prosecuted as accesories to whaterver crime the criminal uses the gun to commit?
It is already illegal to knowingly provide a firearm to a felon. Why are there not more prosecutions for this.
How will closing the "gunshow" loophole reduce a criminal's access to firearms?
Not all FFL holders are required to perform background checks when selling a handguns.

[CO Liberal]

37. And Perhaps THAT Needs to Be Changed

Not all FFL holders are required to perform background checks when selling a handguns.

I believe there should be a thorough background check any time a handgun changes ownership.

[Romulus]

38. eh?

"Not all FFL holders are required to perform background checks when selling a handguns."

Explain, please. Do you mean C&R people?

[Withergyld]

39. yes

A type 3FFL (C&R) can dispose (sell) a firearm from their collection without performing a background check or having the purchaser fill out a form 4473. All that is required is to get a copy of the purchasers ID and log the transaction in their bound book.

[MrBenchley]

40. Say what?

This is too frrigging funnny. Rather than cut off the supply of guns obtained without background checks by the simple expedient of closing a loophole in an existing law...we're supposed to hope that the buyers can be tracked down by law enforcement AFTER they have scattered to the four winds.

"Not all FFL holders are required to perform background checks when selling a handguns."
Gee, THAT is comforting...NOT.

[Withergyld]

24. I think that you are wasting your time

trying to pass legislation that will only affect ~2% of armed criminals.

We as Democrats should carefully consider any legislation by looking at the costs vs. benefits to society. Seeing that less then 2% of criminals aquire thier firearms from private sales at Gunshows, I don't see how this can significantly reduce criminals access to firearms. I don't see how our society will benefit from this legislation being passed.

When you can show evidence that closing the "gunshow loophole" will greatly reduce a crminal's access to firearms I would reconsider my position. Until that time I think we are wasting our time pursuing the matter.

[CO Liberal]

9. Man gunned down in his front yard

Man gunned down in his front yard
By MIKE GLENN
Copyright 2003 Houston Chronicle

A southwest Houston man died at the hospital early Sunday after he was gunned down in front of his home, police said.

Terry Winston Thompson, 47, was shot about 12:30 a.m. Sunday in the front yard of his house in the 6500 block of Jason.

He told his girlfriend, who also lived there, that he was going out to buy a beer. She reported hearing gunshots outside the house as he was returning about 15 minutes later, Houston police said.

A neighbor, who also heard gunfire, then saw a silver or gray midsize sedan speeding from the scene.

<more>

http://www.chron.com/cs/CDA/ssistory.mpl/metropolitan/2126055

[CO Liberal]

10. Orlando Man Found Shot To Death In Bedroom

Orlando Man Found Shot To Death In Bedroom

POSTED: 6:42 a.m. EDT September 29, 2003

The Orange County Sheriff's Office is searching for suspects after a man would found shot to death in his bedroom over the weekend.

Investigators said the man, who is in his 20s, was discovered Sunday at about 2:30 a.m. in his apartment located at 4251 Windcross Lane.

<more>

http://www.local6.com/news/2517039/detail.html

[CO Liberal]

11. Two Detectives Shot In Atlantic County

Two Detectives Shot In Atlantic County

Cops Went To Home Regarding Bar Dispute

POSTED: 10:00 a.m. EDT September 29, 2003

GALLOWAY TOWNSHIP, N.J. -- Two township detectives were shot Monday when they went to a home regarding a bar dispute, state police said.

Their conditions were not immediately known, Trooper Sgt. Gerald Lewis said. No information was available on the suspected gunman, Lewis said.

"Apparently he fired on them," Lewis said.

<more>

http://www.wnbc.com/news/2517690/detail.html

[CO Liberal]

12. Partyer shot as he leaves

Watch who you're partying with in alaska - Wayne

* * * * * * * * *

Partyer shot as he leaves

WASILLA: Troopers say man kicked out victim, then fired into darkness.

By DOUG O'HARRA
Anchorage Daily News

A 24-year-old man was shot in the butt Saturday night after he was kicked out of a Wasilla home where he had been drinking and the resident fired a couple of rounds from a .44 Magnum handgun into the night, according to Alaska State Troopers.

The victim, identified by police as Jeff Navarette of Anaheim, Calif., was taken by Lifeflight helicopter to Providence Alaska Medical Center and was listed in stable condition Sunday afternoon.

"This kid is actually damn lucky," said troopers Sgt. Dennis Ponder. "This actually went through the meaty part of his buttocks, and it went right through without hitting the femoral artery or the bone."

Jobie Karr, 40, was taken to Mat-Su Pre-Trial Facility on charges of first-degree assault, two counts of misconduct involving a weapon in the fourth degree, and reckless endangerment, according to a troopers press release. He was held in lieu of $27,500 cash-only bail plus a court-approved third-party custodian.

<more>

http://www.adn.com/alaska/story/4037545p-4058599c.html

[MrBenchley]

13. Another

"responsible law abiding gun owner"....NOT.

[MrBenchley]

14. An RKBA hero in action

"For 3 1/2 years, Gray, a fugitive from a third-degree felony warrant stemming from a scuffle with state troopers, has vowed to live out his life and die behind the fence if necessary.
It was here that the mingling of fundamentalist religion and militia foreboding (he was a leader in the Texas Constitutional Militia and often held training on his property) spun into a dark world view and outright rejection of civil authority.
On Christmas Eve 1999, state troopers in Anderson County stopped a car for speeding near Palestine. Inside were the driver, a passenger, high-caliber pistols and assault rifles.
The passenger, John Joe Gray, was wearing a gun in a shoulder holster. He refused to get out of the car and, when the troopers forcibly removed him, he bit one on the hand and tried to take the trooper's weapon. "

http://www.chron.com/cs/CDA/ssistory.mpl/front/2126185

[MrBenchley]

17. Two shot in Minnesota Government Center

"MINNEAPOLIS - A man and a woman were shot and wounded Monday at the Hennepin County Government Center, and another woman was in custody as a suspect.
The two wounded were taken to the nearby Hennepin County Medical Center for treatment, Roseann Campagnoli, a sheriff's spokeswoman, said.
Campagnoli said the shootings erupted a little after 10 a.m., and the motive was unknown. They happened on the 17th floor of the center's administrative tower; among the offices in that area are some that handle child custody cases and housing cases. "

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=519&ncid=718&e=5&u=/ap/20030929/ap_on_re_us/government_center_shooting