Recommendations for an additional handgun for self-defense.

[jody]

Background: over several decades for CCW, my family has used S&W Model 38 revolvers and found them perfect for our needs.

S&W replaced the Model 38 with the Model 638, see below.



QUESTION: Based on your personal experience from use, what comparable light-weight revolver from other manufacturers do you recommend with specifications similar to the Model S&W 638?
- Barrel 2”
- Shrouded hammer
- Caliber .38 Special
- Five round capacity
- Weight 15 oz.
- Small frame e.g. J-frame

NOTE: I believe my question meets DU's rule "Discussion of gun-related public policy issues or the use of firearms for self-defense belong in the Guns Forum.

[SteppingRazor]

1. My self-defense handgun is the SIG Sauer P220

I think the 9mm is the all-around best round for self-defense purposes. Your view may vary, of course.

[shireen]

3. that's a semi. Jody, are you looking for a revolver or semi? n t

[SteppingRazor]

5. Yeah, I know. I'm just sayin'.

I own a couple revolvers too, but my top choice for self-defense is the P220. It's definitely not the same specifications as jody's revolver, but it's the gun I'd recommend most.

[jody]

6. Revolver only. I'm looking for a substitute for the Mdl 38/638. n/t

[SteppingRazor]

7. Only revolvers? Hmmm.... well, if you like S&W, what about the model 65 Ladysmith? n/t

[jody]

8. I'm looking for other than S&W, we've looked at the mdl 65. Thanks. n/t

[SteppingRazor]

9. How 'bout the Ruger SP101?

On edit: Some specs.

- Barrel 2.25 inches
- Caliber .38 Special
- Five round capacity
- Weight 25.5 oz.
- Small frame (designed as small-frame version of the GP100)

[jody]

11. Thanks, I'll add the SP101 to my list. n/t

[shireen]

2. check out the outdoor life forum, there are some threads there

I am a bit confused about DU guidelines abt. guns, but gun discussions in the outdoor life forum don't seem to get locked so people have been posting gun questions there.

Here are a couple of recent threads:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=271x1478
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=271x1087

I have never tried the model in your post, and will be interested to read responses from others who have used it. It looks like a nice compact gun to carry around, but given its weight and barrel length, the recoil could be pretty powerful. Guys may not mind the recoil as much, but my girley hands don't like it too much, so I'm probably going to get a heavier S&W 686 with 4 or 6 inch barrel.

[jody]

4. Mdl 38 with low velocity rounds is perfect for women, based on the experience of several women.

[DonP]

10. Charter Arms Undercover .38

I've always been a 1911 semi guy, but a local shop had an older Charter Arms .38 Undercover in on a trade. Basically a J-Frame, 5 rounds, very light, but with an exposed hammer.

I picked it up for a really cheap price (under $100), thinking it would be great for our 95 pound daughter to use. But my wife tried it at the range last summer and I haven't seen it since. Every time I want to give it a try she doesn't want to give it up.

I know Charter doesn't have a consistent reputation for quality, but she's put a few hundred rounds through it and hasn't had a single problem. Now I find myself keeping an eye open for another one.

[jody]

13. Thanks, I'll add that to my list. n/t

[SteppingRazor]

15. They've got a bobbed-hammer model, too. Called the "Off Duty" model.

I agree with the previous poster too. Charter Arms got a bad rap, but I don't think the guns were really that bad -- people just associated "cheap" with "low quality."

[Tandalayo_Scheisskopf]

12. Remember what the cops day:

"All a snub nose is good for is to shoot the 5 rounds to scare them, then you throw it at them, hit them and injure them".

[jody]

14. I guess that's why many LEOs carry snub nose revolvers as a backup. n/t

[spin]

27. Most cops are really not good shooters.

The great majority don't spend a lot of time at the range practicing. Shooting is part of the cops job, but usually it's not a hobby.

The range master at the pistol range I used to hang out at was an excellent shot. He was a retired police officer and told me, "I never really knew how to shoot until I took this job. I learned by sitting around listening to the regular shooters and by practicing when I had a chance."

A snub nosed revolver is a tough gun to shoot well as it usually has a heavy trigger pull, a short sight radius, and a lot of recoil. Lots of practice is necessary to master one. It can be a good choice as a self defense carry gun as it is small, light and easily concealable.

I personally like Smith and Wesson revolvers. Ruger and Taurus also make good revolvers.

[benEzra]

29. Anyone saying that can't shoot worth a crap, IMO.

Snubbies are not inherently inaccurate, but the sharper recoil and increased muzzle flash/blast compared to a full-length barrel, coupled with the short sight radius, may make them harder for a newbie who only shoots twice a year for quals to shoot well.

Massad Ayoob (well known firearms trainer) did a demonstration once to debunk the "snubbies can't hit anything" myth, by shooting a standard B-21 LEO training target at 100 yards from a braced position with good ammunition and getting like 70% hits.

I've personally hit a 24" steel plate 8 for 9 with a 3.5" barreled S&W 3913 (compact auto, not a revolver) from a braced position, so I dare say I could do the same thing at 50 yards with a .38 snubbie.

[krispos42]

30. True, that

In the police urban sniper-rifle market, short, bull-barreled AR-15s are becoming popular. The shorter and thicker barrel vibrates less and is more rigid, making the rifle extremely accurate. And because they use scopes instead of iron sights, sight radius is not an issue.

Of course, they lose a couple of hundred feet per second muzzle velocity, but that's not an issue in most urban sniping situations.

[jmg257]

16. I like the SP101 too. I carried one as a backup to my GP100 duty revolver, and it

was very nice. Rugers are solid, easy to breakdown, and can handle alot of .357.

[virginia mountainman]

17. Would you consider a .357?

You can still use the .38spl Ammunition in them, and due to the better material used for the higher powered .357 round it will hold up much longer to heavy practice sessions (if you use .38SPL ammo almost exclusively).

As for recommendations, ANY, Revolver from a MAJOR manufacture, and you should be fine.

But please consider a .357 instead, that round is one of the VERY best for self-defense. And if you decide that the .357 round is too much for you, or a loved one, just use .38SPL ammo instead.

You gain a lot of versatility with a .357 over a .38.

The revolver I have for such use is a S&W modal 27 with a 4 inch barrel, but it is a bit big and heavy for CCW, but it makes an excellent "outdoor" gun, when loaded with soft point bullets, for emergency use against bears and such. (I know I know, I need to use a .44 mag for that, but I am a great shot with the .357, and I have complete confidence in my ability with it)

[jody]

18. I understand re .357 but the frame size, weight, & barrel length are important. n/t

[virginia mountainman]

19. I understand..

Jody, I know you said that semi-autos is "out" but let me make a comment. Their are many auto's that are small, double action, with a very simple safeties.

The "manual of arms" on these pistols is very simple, I am thinking of a Makarov pistol I own. All it requires is one more movement (operation of the slide) than a revolver. It has a double action trigger system. and once a round is in the chamber, the user can place the gun on safe, and it automaticly "decocks" the hammer, and then you can use it just like a Revolver.

It is much smaller than many "snub nose" revolvers, and lighter as well. And the caliber of 9x18 is about like a 38 spl. I would also say the muzzle blast and recoil is MILDER than a snubby 38.

I let my wife try out on a pistol such as this, and she took to it like a Labrador does to water....She worked her way into the 9mm's and than she laid claim to my 1911 .45


I also find I carry the little Mak' allot during the summer, it is easily concealable in my pocket, with its slim profile (when I carry it like this, I carry it with an empty chamber) It also works out great when I need be 100% undetectable armed. It fits with room to spare in a jackets inside pocket with NO bulge, it is also much lighter than most other CCW firearms, when being discrete, lightness is a HUGE plus.

In other words, with carrying the .45 is inconveniet, the little mak' fills the bill nicely.

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=91429860

[jody]

20. Thanks, I'll look at the Makarov pistol. We own a variety of handguns and we've used several

S&W Mdl. 38 for decades.

The S&W Mdl. 38 is going for $400 plus and I thought some DUer might have personal experience with a revolver similar to the S&W at a much lower price.

I admit I love my 1911 auto but the other women in my family love the S&W Mdl. 38, probably because my wife used one and they emulate her. It's also light enough for them to carry in a purse, never jams, and easy to check for an empty cylinder.

We've also enjoyed using Speer's Plastic Training 38/357 components with large pistol primers for safe practice without having to go to the range.

My grandchildren learned gun safety at eight years of age using Speer's Plastic ammo in a S&W Mdl 38 and they thought it was a blast. More fun to them than Red Ryder bb guns.

[virginia mountainman]

21. That "familiarity" with the gun

is very important. And is worth a little bit of inconvenience (bulk and weight) to a user that would not be 100% comfortable with an automatic.

I Like my S&W revolver, but my opinion on good high quality revolvers is if you have shot one, you have just about shot them all.

Now, I have some friends that swear by these "Rossi" revolvers and Taurus revolvers, being a bit cheaper but still a "high quality" firearm. Actually I have several friends that swear by Taurus firearms, automatics and Revolvers.

Rossi seems to make a really nice product, that is quite a bit cheaper than an S&W.

http://www.rossiusa.com/products/product-details.cfm?model=R46102&category=REVOLVER

Nice little 357 their.....that can be fed .38 SPL and the rubber grips would make it easier to control With a MSRP of $325!

[jody]

22. Many thanks for the additional data, I'll definitely look at Rossi and Taurus. The Rossi Mdl R46102

is 10 oz heavier than the S&W Mdl 38.

Many would say why worry about 10 oz but that's a lot in a handbag that already is overburden.

The last thing I want to do is encourage leaving a handgun at home because the purse is too heavy.

[virginia mountainman]

23. Hmm

Well.. The 38 spl version is 2 oz lighter...But it looses the .357 ability

The S&W is made with an Aluminum Alloy, the Rossi is steel, Steel is cheaper and stronger than the Aluminum Alloy, but it is heavier.

If weight is a concern, you can get plastic framed automatics that can be very light..But..That is not a revolver...

Catch-22

Just to elaborate a bit, I had a plastic framed Glock, with a 3 inch barrel, in .45 ACP....and it is an incredible handful to fire. I sold it years ago.

I was looking for the "summer gun" back before I stumbled over the little Mak I was talking about above.

[jody]

24. I checked Taurus' site and their Mdl 851comes in at 16 oz. Prices on GA are in the $400 range. n/t

[aikoaiko]

32. I almost bought an 817B2UL --- if only it had a shrouded hammer

7 rounds of +p is a nice set up, plus the grip is slightly extended for the pinkie.

[pipoman]

25. Why not a M638?

Here's mine, I did the polish job on it myself, it looked exactly like your pics before. I just didn't like the 2 tone appearance or the epoxy finish on the body.



I have other more expensive carry options but always come back to this gun. There just isn't a better option IMHO. Of coarse you could go on gunbroker or someplace and buy a used M38. A S&W centennial would be my second choice I suppose.

[jody]

26. We have a Mdl 638 along with Mdl 38s. I agree with you, it's a fine revolver. I was trying to

find a less expensive revolver but with the same basic specs as the the Mdl 38/638.

After using the Mdl 38 for so long, it's difficult for me to objectively evaluate other light weight revolvers.

I wanted other DUers to keep me honest in my comparisons of alternates to the Mdl 38.

Thanks for the comment. :hi:

[krispos42]

28. How about a 9mm revolver?

Taurus makes (or made) a 9mm stubbie 5-shot. More power than a .38 but less than a .357 Mag, and you have a variety of permium ammo to pick from. Lots of bullet weights and such to choose from. Plus cheap practice ammo!

Taurus uses a "Stellar" full-moon clip that you can load and unload without special equipment. And full-moon clips load fast into a revolver's cylinder. Champion shooter Jerry Miculek can empty a 6-shot .45 ACP revolver, reload it, and empty it again in 2.99 seconds.

Can't say I ever shot one, but I like the concept, especially for cops. Their backup revolver can match the 9mm on their hip in case their autopistol is lost or stolen.

http://www.taurususa.com/products/product-details.cfm?id=336&category=Revolver

http://www.taurususa.com/products/product-details.cfm?id=329&category=Revolver

[aikoaiko]

31. I think you know the answer already --- there's nothing better than a S&W

S&W is just hard to beat in terms of quality revolvers.

I've got a 2inch Taurus titanium for .357 with the shrouded hammer. I trust my life with it, but I wish I had the same thing in S&W.