Armed and Dangerous--Teachers Can Pack Guns in Arizona

[texshelters]

Dear Patriots,

The Arizona Senate Judiciary Committee has done the near impossible and made me jealous of university professors.

In a 4 to 3 vote, led by Republican Senator Karen Johnsonof Mesa, Arizona, the committee has decided that it is okay for teachers and students at universities and colleges in Arizona to carry concealed handguns to class.

I would love to sidle up to a student who is late to class and slip my jacket backward past my holster to reveal my colt 45. There's nothing like using the threat of gunfire to improve student punctuality, attendance, and grades. And if a teacher gives a bad grade, watch out! Bobby and Buffy might cap you one with their legally protected concealed weapon.

The idea is this: if a deranged student who was able to get a gun because mentally ill people and former convicts can buy guns in Arizona without background checks, then teachers and other students should be able to carry them. It is just too hard and too undemocratic to do background checks on those buying guns. Therefore, arm everyone!

It's also extremely difficult to register guns because there are about 250 million in the United States. Registering the 247 million cars in 2005 in the United States was much easier because cars are bigger. Therefore, registering cars is okay but registering guns every year, that's hard because people have concealed gun permits and they wouldn't be concealed when the guns got checked and registered.

This decision to allow guns in colleges and universities doesn't go far enough. Since this same criminals and mentally ill people can buy assault weapons of any variety and number in Arizona, teachers and students should be allowed to be armed with these same assault weapons. Only then will we feel safe at our campuses.

The bad news is that Senator Johnson was unable to get the concealed weapons into K-12 classrooms as she wanted. Yes my friends, this is true. I am sure the kindergarten teachers need guns in order to defend against the wild gothic 5 year old trench-coat mafia.

If you want to "support" Ms. Johnson in her fight to arm teachers, write her or call her at the state legislature in Arizona: azleg.gov

Gun fire for all, including preschoolers!

Yours,
Tex Shelters

[sepulveda]

1. big deal

there is no law preventing either teachers or students at colleges to be armed in washington state

i have yet to see any of the ridiculous stuff you mention happen here.

and nobody is saying "arm" anybody.

they are saying allow them the CHOICE to arm themselves.

much as they have in WA. i am not aware of any WA college campus being a shooting gallery.

much like abortion debate , the anti-choice side wrongly claims the pro-choice side is pro-abortion. we're not. we're pro GIVING WOMEN THE CHOICE to choose abortion

similarly, we are not for ARMING teachers. we are for choice. teachers who are not otherwise prohibited from carrying ELSEWHERE in public, should be allowed the choice to exercise their civil right to carry.

ditto students.

that you cannot see the analogy, but choose instead to ridicule (with fantastical nonsensical scenarious) people who may choose to exercise their constitutional rights is rather ironic

[texshelters]

10. I'm serious

There are people in Arizona that want to arm K-12 teachers. That is insane! Why do people that live in fear have the right to endanger others? While driving, can I "chose" not to stop at a red light? Aren't their rules for driving and flying and marriage. Why is infringing on guns more objectionable than infringing on my right to safe from guns in public?

It makes no sense unless you chose to live in fear of a random gun attack that could be prevented by enforcing laws and regular gun registrations and mental health checks like we do for drivers.

Peace,
Tex Shelters

[bossy22]

36. and there are rules to carrying a firearm

in most places you need a license
you must have it concealed- if visible can be an automatic revocation of license
can't brandish without good reason
can't be intoxicated

CCW is much like a drivers license.

[sabre73]

40. Because driving, flying and marriage

are not covered in the BILL OF RIGHTS first off. And second have you ever been to a high school? There have been shootings at schools long before Columbine! We had gang bangers being arrested all of the time on campus with their illegal guns (usually after they shot at somebody)

Tell me this... Do you have a fire alarm in your house? If the answer is yes the please tell me why? Statistically you are MUCH more likely to be the victim of a violent crime where the use of deadly force would be warranted and justified than you would be of a home fire.

That statistic is nearly double for schools.

You say:

"It makes no sense unless you chose to live in fear of a random gun attack that could be prevented by enforcing laws and regular gun registrations and mental health checks like we do for drivers."

But the same can be said about the argument you are making. You are the one who sounds like they are afraid not us.

Oh and I am a owner and legal operator of a vehicle and I have NEVER undergone a "mental health check" for the right to be so.

Oh and I wanted to reveal some cool news to all who might read this:

The other day I went out with my family for a day of shopping and "hanging out" and the funniest thing happened to us as we were out (and I was carrying - concealed - my 1911 .45 cal pistol with 2 spare mags)....

The funny thing was that I did not shoot anyone...... What is even funnier than that is that NO ONE even knew that I was carrying a loaded gun on my person.......

Strange I know since we who carry our pieces legally don't just go around putting other people in danger with our mere presence!

[SteveM]

2. Hey, send this to the WAPO. They'll run it if they think you're serious. (nt)

[jody]

3. Are you referring to Arizona bill S.B. 1214? If so the article embellishes & exaggerates the bill.

FACT SHEET FOR S.B. 1214
concealed weapons; school grounds

Purpose
Allows a person with a valid concealed carry weapons (CCW) permit to possess a concealed weapon on school grounds.

Background
In general, persons in Arizona may carry weapons without a permit as long as the weapon is visible. However, Arizona law permits, with certain restrictions, a U.S. citizen to carry a weapon concealed if the person has received a CCW permit. The Arizona Department of Public Safety (DPS) is required to issue a CCW permit if the applicant meets all the statutory requirements. A.R.S. § 13-3112 requires applicants to be residents of Arizona or U.S. citizens, be lawfully present in the U.S., be at least 21 years old and satisfactorily complete a firearms safety training program. Applicants must not be under indictment for, or convicted of, any felony in any jurisdiction, mentally ill or adjudicated mentally incompetent. An applicant must submit to DPS a completed application, a certificate of completion from an approved firearms safety training court, fingerprints and an application fee. DPS is required to check the criminal history of every applicant against the Central State Repository for criminal records in Arizona within 60 days of receiving an application.

A deadly weapon means anything that is designed for lethal use and includes firearms (A.R.S. § 13-3101). Firearms are prohibited in certain situations, regardless of whether a person possesses a CCW permit, including polling places on election day, nuclear power plants or hydroelectric generating stations, correctional facilities and federal buildings. Laws 1991, Chapter 237, expanded the prohibition to possession of a deadly weapon on school grounds with exceptions for: 1) an unloaded firearm that is carried within a means of transportation (vehicle) under the control of an adult; 2) a firearm that is not visible from outside a locked vehicle; and 3) a firearm for use on the school grounds in a program approved by a school. A weapon is also allowed on school grounds if the weapon is possessed for the purposes of preparing for, conducting or participating in hunter or firearm safety courses. Additionally, the prohibition against possessing a deadly weapon on school grounds does not apply to certain individuals, including a peace officer, a member of the U.S. military or a correctional officer of the Arizona Department of Corrections. A school is defined as a public or nonpublic kindergarten program, common school or high school; and school grounds is defined as in, or on the grounds of, a school. (A.R.S. § 13-3102).

There is no anticipated fiscal impact to the state General Fund.
Provisions

1. Exempts, from misconduct involving weapons, a person who possesses a valid CCW permit and possesses a concealed firearm on school grounds.

2. Expands the definition of school to include a community college under the jurisdiction of a community college district, a university under the jurisdiction of the Arizona Board of Regents, a private college or a private university.

3. Makes technical changes.

4. Becomes effective on the general effective date.

Prepared by Senate Research
February 14, 2008
CEW/jas

[DonP]

5. Awww, now you went and ruined it with facts!

This new post had a good rant going and was doing a fair job of creating an image of 5th graders carrying at recess and the lunch lady with an attitude and a side by side under her apron.

Now people will realize it's just allowing the people that have already qualified to continue to exercise their rights. That's no fun for getting ignorant people stirred up about an issue.

[jody]

7. I know, life is cruel sometimes.

:hi:

[texshelters]

12. Thanks for the compliment, but you missed the point

Why would we need guns if there weren't crazy people with guns?

If having a gun makes you feel safe, fine. I don't see how having them at a university will make people safe. School is for education, not shooting. Did you forget that?

If only "law abiding citizens" have guns, then why do "law abiding citizens feel" they need to carry them everywhere?

Is it that guns make us feel more manly? Isn't it the guns at the schools that have caused the killing? Shouldn't we do our best to keep them out and only in the hands of "law abiding citizens"?

Tex Shelters

[Boomer 50]

15. Simple, crazy people have guns.....

So we can either submit to their violence or stand up and fight back. I choose to fight.

Look, I sympathize with your feelings but you need to understand that firearms technology exists. You can't undo that no matter how badly you want to. It doesn't take a genius to build a firearm. A trip to Lowe's and your local auto parts store will net you all you need to build a submachine gun. By disarming law abiding citizens while the criminal element either a. keeps their guns, or b. builds their own, you are encouraging violence and the same kind of shootings you want to stop.

Laws that create gun free zones are simply advertizements to criminals telling them exactly where to go for disarmed victims. I personally believe it's criminal to put our children in schools where the teachers and adminstrators have no way of stopping a shooting. Give them the chance to save our children. We've already proven that disarmament areas don't solve the problem. Give something else a chance and see if it works.

[gorfle]

20. Because....

Why would we need guns if there weren't crazy people with guns?

But there are crazy people with guns. See the recent Illinois shooting.

If having a gun makes you feel safe, fine. I don't see how having them at a university will make people safe. School is for education, not shooting. Did you forget that?

Yet shootings do happen at schools - did you forget that? People who have concealed carry permits should be able to carry on university campuses just like everywhere else. If they can walk down main street with a concealed weapon, surrounded by hundreds of people, why not a university campus? What is different?

If only "law abiding citizens" have guns, then why do "law abiding citizens feel" they need to carry them everywhere?

Because we know that not just law abiding citizens have guns - criminals do, too. And insane people who should have them but have them anyway.

Isn't it the guns at the schools that have caused the killing? Shouldn't we do our best to keep them out and only in the hands of "law abiding citizens"?

Illinois is one of the most restrictive states in the nation for firearm ownership. It didn't do a thing to prevent the shooting on their campus. The fact is, anyone could walk onto any college campus today, regardless of whatever rules they have prohibiting firearms, and gun down as many people as they wanted. No law is going to change that fact.

[sabre73]

41. Where are you getting this stuff?

You say:

"If only "law abiding citizens" have guns, then why do "law abiding citizens feel" they need to carry them everywhere?"

There are far too many "Unlawful criminals" carrying guns! What do you mean "only law abiding citizens are carrying guns"?

Then you say:

"Is it that guns make us feel more manly? Isn't it the guns at the schools that have caused the killing? Shouldn't we do our best to keep them out and only in the hands of "law abiding citizens"?"

I'll respond in order

1) More manly? No they don't make my wife or myself feel "more manly". They help us remain prepared should the need to use them arise. (and before you say that it is unlikely let me say it has happened and we were prepared)

2) guns caused the killing? What? next you will tell me that it is your car that can't obey the speed limit on the highway. LOL. Guns don't "cause" anything. It is the intent of the person wielding a club, bat, knife, sword, plastic wrap, etc that does the killing not the tool.

3) Do our best to keep them out? Yes. We should do our best to keep the UNSAVORY PEOPLE WHO want to cause harm out of the schools not guns legally carried concealed. Often, you can't figure out who is sane and who is ill until they snap and start killing people. So, what is the harm in letting people decide on how they would like to protect their own lives?


You are right on one point though, "School is for education, not shooting." That is so true!...... I wonder if the gunmen who killed all of those unarmed students and staff gave 2 pieces of crap about that mentality? I would venture to say that they did not care they wanted to shoot anyway.

But hey! who cares that a legal CCW could have put a stop to it? I am sure none of the victims family's care about what COULD have saved their loved ones lives......

[texshelters]

11. It's called humor

Exaggeration is a technique used in humor. Humor is what people use to make political points sometimes. The point being, having guns on campus is insane and unnecessary if we keep hands away from the mentally ill and have reasonable registration laws like we have for cars and actually enforce laws that exist.

Thanks.

Tex

[jody]

18. What you call humor is identical to what a gun-grabber might post. n/t

[sabre73]

42. Just because you are happy

living in denial does not mean that we are. Guns carried by the right people (no matter where) makes for great security and good sense.

We already have "reasonable registration laws" These laws were made to diminish gun violence but just the opposite happened.

Somehow, we gun owners get pegged for that though.... It blows my mind that you think it "unnecessary". Have you been to college? or High School for that matter? Who is going to be the front line protection for our children should the crap hit the fan?

The one security guard that is employed part time? It sure worked in Virginia..... Ooops NO IT DID'T...

Furthermore, exaggeration and humor are also used to hide ignorance and "Flame bait" here.

[jmg257]

4. What do you teach - "Fear Mongering 101"? The old "campus will run with blood argument", which

has actually and tragically only ever happened in gun free scool zones BTW, is a bit much no? Why would lawful citizens who can legallly carry concealed anywhere else in society suddenly turn bat shit crazy, or even irresponsible once at school? All that "hard test" stress? Brandishing IS a crime you know - no matter how it may tend to "get students to class on time" or "get me an A". Not too many I know would risk the right to carry for such stupid reasons. What bullshit...

Since schools will not do enough to make sure NO ONE will bring a weapon on campus, nor provide everyone with personal security, then people must be allowed the right to legally protect themselves - it's that whole unalienable right of self-defense thing.

Registration of guns is not only hard, it is also unconstitutional because there is no need for it - other then confiscation.
Knowing what specific gun is in the hands of someone legally allowed to possess that arm will not prevent crimes. Those who are not legally allowed to own them will not (need to) register them - ever, it is a violation of their right against self-incrimination. Weird huh? As history has repeatedly shown - it's a totally stupid idea to let those in power KNOW who owns what guns - they ALWAYS use that knowledge to disarm, then abuse, the people.

I wish NY would allow carry in it's schools, then I will have the means to the right to defend my kids when I am with them at school. Right now they have NO security against violence on campus, except some INSANE notion that a would-be murderer of children really cares whether it is also illegal to bring a gun with him to commit those murders.

[texshelters]

13. Would be killers

How do "would-be killers" get guns? Answer: lax guns laws, no gun registration, no mental health care, a society that thinks guns can solve problems, no background checks, no councilors in our schools, etc. How many "would-be killers" that weren't former students have actually entered schools and shot people? I can't think of any.

If we keep the fear high of events that don't occur, then we can all feel safe. Is that the logic here?

Tex Shelters

[Endangered Specie]

19. Obviosuly you have never tried to buy a gun before...

background checks are required for buying guns except for in-state private transactions (and many states require some form of check to cover those as well)

[bossy22]

23. what would registration

accomplish? It's not like criminals register their guns. We have a handgun registry in New York for over 50 years and i think it has helped solve a total of 10 crimes in those 50 years.

We do not have lax gun laws- what we have is lax enforcement. Working in a gun store selling guns i have realized that the local police don't give a shit about straw purchasers (people who buy guns for criminals), we reported them for awhile, until the police called us back and said to don't even bother- because they werent investigating them anyway. THIS IS AN OUTRAGE....we dont need more laws, we need police to do their jobs and focus on straw purchasers, gun thefts.

I dont know why people suggest gun registration- it would cost so much to register every gun and probably only 2/3 of guns would be registered. there is no benefit.

it is very obvious though that you have never tried to purchase a gun in any state from a licensed dealer.

[jmg257]

28. One I know of - in Pennsylvania Amish country I think it was?

But of course that is not the entire issue, though it is a quite valid part if it - especially when talking threats to younger grades. The logic here is to keep the "fear" of such events high - the more people aware of such dangers the better - and the more apt of something truly effective being done, like we are seeing now in Arizona. Too many people have the idea that an effective step IS in place, because of stupid "gun free school zones" - when such bans have proven to be just the opposite, and only disarm the lawful.

There is also logic to take real steps to reduce such events...I agree enforcing the gun laws is a good start, as we saw Cho got passed laws already in place that should have prevented him from being armed. A better mental health system is also a good idea - a proper system to declare and deal with the mentally ill (and handle legally the suspension of their rights). If they are so dangerous that they shouldn't have access to arms - they should not be out in public - there are too many other ways to harm others that don't require misusing a gun at all. Firearm registration will do little or nothing - as I pointed out above - and it is proven to lead to confiscation - not worth the eventual infringement or the cost. And background checks are already in place - but we should let private sellers have access to the National data base - close those evil "loopholes" we keep hearing about but are really just the law. Besides - guns are not the problem, and only take the focus off the real issues, and those would-be offenders who perpetrate such despicable cts..

And so the logic must go further in realizing that despite all these attempts, which quite apparently still aren't effective enough, tragic events have and will continue to occur. With the advent of "gun free zones", they have gotten worse (just a coincidence? No - but only partly as there are clearly social issues involved). So that means the next LOGICAL step after realizing this, is that we DO NOT infringe on the rights of people to protect themselves, exactly because, just like in the rest of the world, the State won't/can't protect us. The logic ISN'T to wax fantastical about "blood filled campuses" and any bullshit "scenarios" you might dream up in order to promote the mythical fear of letting responsible CCW-legal parents, teachers and students be armed - it has never happened ANY where else in society that have adopted legal CCW, why would campuses be any different? And especially when banning them from carrying has clearly NOT helped, but typically & tragically negatively impacts the situation instead.

[sabre73]

44. There has not been

one iota of logic in any of your posts to date.

[Herman74]

6. I guess the idea is here that a professor would think to herself something like...

..."Well, today's discussion in Philosophy 101 will be on Plato's Republic, and it could get rather ugly. Better bring the Glock, if not the Uzi."

IT DOESN'T WORK THAT WAY!!!

Unless they're really paranoid or demented, professors aren't going to be bringing guns day after day after day to their classes. And if they're demented, they shouldn't be given the right to do so! All this stupid law does is reinforce the stupid idea that you need a stupid gun in order to be safe. Heck, under this law, the first person a deranged campus killer would shoot would be the professor (with or without a gun)! Of course, if you have a right to own a gun, so too does a lunatic (being, alas, not born with a tatoo saying "I'm a lunatic, don't sell me a gun!"). And therein lies the problem.

[pipoman]

8. I am glad to hear someone finally admit

that there really isn't a problem with gun violence in the US or more specifically on college campuses.

[Herman74]

24. Wasn't me admitting to such nonsense...

...with 10,000 people murdered each year by guns, with guns killing Americans at a higher rate than did the Vietnam War, and with the gun homicide rate in the U.S. about 24 times higher than that for gun-controlled U.K., I would have to be an utter fool to do so.

[bossy22]

32. question

are gun homicides better than knife or fist homicides? why does it matter what weapon they use.

second question
were there 300 million americans in vietnam?- what was teh actually per capita death rate of soldiers in vietnam.

statement
did you know when our laws and the UK's laws were similar the UK homicide rate was lower than it is now as a "gun control" utopia?

i apologize again

[pipoman]

37. You said,

Unless they're really paranoid or demented, professors aren't going to be bringing guns day after day after day to their classes.

So which is it? Is there a violence problem on college campuses and in the US in general or is this hypothetical professor paranoid/demented? It can't be both ways. Who is the demented one, the one who wishes to arm him/herself knowing there is a violence problem and nearly the same likelihood their house will burn down or a storm will claim it that they will be confronted with possible life threatening violence? or the person who wishes to keep this hypothetical professor who has been schooled on the defensive use of the firearm, passed a criminal background check, has not had mental problems or domestic violence issues, has been tested and issued a license to carry a concealed weapon from defending him/her self based on the greater good theory?

[pipoman]

46. yep, just as I suspected

[bossy22]

9. mentally ill

people deemed so by a court have no right to purchase or possess a gun. do you know the standard glock 9mm is really no less powerful than an UZI. I hate it when people think an Uzi is this awesome weapon- its a pistol with a long barrel for christ sakes.

i'm sorry, i didnt mean to bring up facts...my bad

[Herman74]

30. irrelevant

"mentally ill people deemed so by a court have no right to purchase or possess a gun." -- bossy22

Did that stop the murderer at Virginia Tech from buying guns? How about the guy at Northern Illinois University (who wasn't taking his meds), Charles Whitman, or Son of Sam or the guy who shot ten Amish girls? Many murderers are mentally ill, but, alas, are not born with a tattoo indicating so.

[bossy22]

31. relevant

"Did that stop the murderer at Virginia Tech from buying guns? How about the guy at Northern Illinois University (who wasn't taking his meds), Charles Whitman, or Son of Sam or the guy who shot ten Amish girls? Many murderers are mentally ill, but, alas, are not born with a tattoo indicating so."

lets break this down into time periods

Pre-NICS system
Charles whitman
son of same
at this time we had no background check system so these guys probably just bought these guns "legally" but were probably prohibited due to federal law- thats why NICS was created- to actually have a way to check the prohibited persons list

Post-NICS system
NIU
VT
well those 2 killers fell through cracks in the system- which should be urgently repaired- cho was legally prohibited from owning firearms but due to a stupid clerical error- was never put into the system
the NIU killer IIRC was also prohibited federally- but again- the background check system was updated

solution- keep those background records recent and thorough

[texshelters]

14. The mentally incompentent do get guns

The incentive to make profit will keep guns in the hands of the mentally incompetent, the deranged, the angry, the vengeful, etc. I guess I don't have enough confidence in Americans, and humans in general, to keep their emotions in check long enough to holster there guns and not shoot someone, mistakenly or otherwise.

Peace,
Tex Shelters

[pipoman]

16. Well

with 46 states having "shall issue" concealed carry on the books and literally millions of licensees carrying concealed firearms every day, if your assertions had any basis in reality wouldn't there be many deaths/murders weekly committed by those concealed carry licensees? We all know that if there were that the fact the shooter had a ccw would make the news and likely the headline. You shouldn't have any trouble proving your assertions with a simple Google search. Just because your reasoning seems sound to you doesn't mean there is any basis in fact.

[texshelters]

21. So?

1. The blog was about guns in universities, not carry permits. I don't care what permits you have, a gun is not needed on campus.

2. How many people actually carry concealed weapons? Some people dream of a day when everyone carries a concealed weapon, but not many people do or want to.

Tex Shelters

[bossy22]

25. no one in their right mind

dreams of everyone having guns. What we do dream of is everyone that is willing to take the responsibility of ownership- to have the ability to purchase and carry guns.

also being a college student- and a person who works in a gun store i have to say that the "profit" arguement doesnt work. over 99.9% of gun sale profits to these companies are from law abiding adults purchasing weapons- they don't make profit from selling guns to criminals (usually thats a secondary sale which the gun industry makes no money on)

the idea that the gun industry floods the market with guns is completely false. many times their are wait periods because the industry can't even keep up with demand
for example


this standard AR-15 has a wait list time of about 16 weeks before one is shipped- and this time is increasing due to ever increasing demands. at my store we have a wait list of about 50 people awaiting their rifles.

[Herman74]

26. How many people can you take out with one of the guns pictured? n/t

[bossy22]

33. about as many as you can take out with

this hunting shotgun


this standard police defensive side-arm


and this gun designed in 1894


i hope you know that the gun in the post above is only used in about 2.91% of murders

any gun is dangerous- any gun can kill. Just like any car can become a dealy weapon if not used responsibly

i do not get the relevance of your post

[bossy22]

35. question

why does it matter?





how many innocent pedestrians can you take out with one of these monsters?

[pipoman]

38. I would ask you the same question I asked in post #37 above??? N/T

[sabre73]

43. WOW you are absolutely

ignorant.....

Need more be said?:shrug:

[Herman74]

27. Mentally ill aren't going to be applying to carry concealed weapons!!!

Did the murderer at Virginia Tech who used guns to murder many people get a concealed weapon permit??? How about the more recent murderer, the guy who shot several people to death at Northern Illinois University?

[bossy22]

34. again

relevance please?

[pipoman]

39. Neither had a concealed carry permit to my knowledge

please post a link. Otherwise you make my point. Those who do jump through the whoops to get a concealed carry license are very very unlikely to cause a problem. It is the ones who do not have a ccw and are carrying illegally who are the issue nearly every single time.

[dmallind]

48. Which is rather the point

So when we allow people who DID apply successfully for a CCW permit to carry in schools, we surely have a greater confidence that they are NOT mentally ill (since as you stated, they wouldn't bother to apply) so what's the problem letting them carry in schools? Does walking into a school turn an otherwise rational and safe CCW permit holder into a raving loon for some reason? If not then surely they will continue to be rational and safe in the school, where they will do no harm and have some chance of doing some good in the unlikely event that their class is the next target for a student or employee who IS mentally ill (and like you said, who inevitably ignored the laws about CCW permits just as much as the laws about bringing guns into schools and, last but not least, the laws against shooting people).

[mvccd1000]

17. If you like that crazy bill, maybe.....

... you should move to one of the many (14?) states where it's ALREADY legal for CCW holders to carry in schools. Utah, Colorado, and others have allowed this for years.

Luckily for us gun owners, the subversive press has squelched the stories on the many teachers who shoot tardy students every day, as well as the stories of the armed kindergarten kids who drop their guns in class.

:sarcasm:

[texshelters]

22. I'm glad you understand my point!

Because of this hidden, unreported criime spree by 5 year olds and teachers shooting tardy students, we NEED guns in the schools. More guns will solve the problems that don't exist! I'm glad you see my point!

Tex Shelters

[virginia mountainman]

29. Yea!!

After all, We need, Gun Free zones to keep us safe from harm!!!!

Lets put a great big sign out, to let all the "mass murders" know that GUNS, are not allowed HERE.. under penalty of law..

WE know it works so well..

EXTREME SARCASM ...

Actually it is hard to remember a mass shooting in recent memory THAT HAPPENED OUTSIDE, of the fabled "Gun Free" zone....If we can trust our children with these teachers, I have NO problem trusting them with a "tool" to keep our kids safe...no problem whatsoever.

After all, if they cannot be trusted with a gun, they should not be trusted with our children.

[mvccd1000]

45. You don't make much of a point....

Since there are no crime sprees by 5-year olds ("arm all the kindergarteners"), and there are no teachers shooting tardy students in the states that ALREADY ALLOW CCW holders to carry in school, your "point" is pointless.

There ARE, however, crimes committed by the people who are not allowed to bring guns into schools, which kills your logic that gun-free zones are all we need to protect our students.

Maybe you can explain why all of these CCW holders who are perfectly trustworthy in the bank, in the restaurant, in the city council meetings, etc., are suddenly going to snap or become careless when they walk into a school. The rest of us know that that isn't going to happen, just like it didn't happen in Utah, or in Colorado, or in any of the other states where it is legal.

Sorry to rain on your parade.

[Turbo Teg]

47. That's what

Love to hear! Finaly, some good legislation. Hope they do that around here. Hopefully she'll be able to get the teachers of K-12 to be able to lawfully carry in the future aswell. Kudos.