Have you ever changed an anti-gunners mind? (long)

[Turbo Teg]

A few years ago, I met a girl who I was thinking about seeing. We met up a few times and went to restrounts and such and we had a good time. I came over to her house a few times and everything was going pretty decent. Now one day while we we're going into her house she had brushed up against me and felt my Glock 27 in my waist band. "What's that?" she asked. "It's my concealed carry Glock" I said. Now I never told her I carried concealed, well, because it never really came up.

"Well you can't bring that in here" she said. I asked why not, and told her that everytime we met up and I came over, I had been carrying a gun. " I have a child" she said, which I obviously already knew. "Can't you just leave it in your car or something?" I said no, that I wasn't going to leave a 500.00 dollar piece of equipment in my car to get stolen. I told her that I understand that she doesn't want guns in her house and that was fine and that I'll leave. I also told her that if she didn't like guns, it wasn't gonna work out between us anyway. I pretty much figured that's that and was on my way back to my truck when she told me not to leave. I told her again that I'm not leaving my gun anywhere and that it was gonna stay on my hip. She reluctantly agreed. Once we got into her home it was kinda wierd now, since we kinda had our first "fight" and we really weren't even dating. She gave me the usual run down of questions like, "Why do you have that?", "Is it registered?" "Are you licensed to carry it?", etc.

I told her that I carry it for protection, and piece of mind knowing that if for whatever reason I need it, it's there. I told her that there is no registration in the state of Ohio and that I was licenesed to carry. I answered a few more questions before she started telling me about how she hated guns and was a member of stop the NRA.org and all that jazz. I asked what made her so anti-gun and she told me she had 3 friends killed during a robbery. (It was actually a relitively high profile case here in ohio a while ago, I didn't know she knew the victums untill then, they were tied up then shot) I asked her if she'd ever shot a gun before. She said she hadn't. We did a little more talking and then to my surprise, she wanted to see it. I said OK. I went to the kitchen and unloaded the magazine and racked the one out of the chamber and brought it back to her. She kinda took it nervously and looked it over. "That's lighter than I thought it would be" she said. She said something about my Glock bieng ugly, but that's ok, I get that a lot. I showed her how to hold it and told her the basics of gun safety. "Is there a lot of kick?" She asked. I told her there was a decent amount with that gun because of the cartridge and light wieght, but told her there are other guns that are real mild. I asked if she ever wanted to try shooting one. She told me no.

I said "C'mon, I'll even buy you lunch and dinner if you come with me." She thought about it and said ok, but that she was only gonna try it, and not to be mad if she didn't like it. It must have been about two weeks or so later that we we're actually able to arrange it. I brought the Glock 19, the Bushmaster AR-15, and the AK-47. She looked at the the rifles with a worried look on her face. I told her that they were pussy cats as far as shooting, but that we were gonna start with the 9mm. We put on all the nesasary protection and then loaded up. I started first. I emptied the mag and put in a fresh one and handed it to her. He was nervous I could tell but she handled it like a champ. She blew of about 3 rounds before she got into it. After she emptied out the mag, she was smiling. "That was cool", I told her I know and that 80,000,000 gun owners couldn't be wrong. She wasn't to nervous when we got to the rifles now. Loaded up the Bushmaster and the AK, and we started firing. She was on the AR and I on the AK. We swapped out and that was it. She wanted to shoot the AR for the rest of the time. Since that day she has been pretty much pro gun. She was gonna stop getting the Emails or whatever from stop the NRA.Org (or com, whichever) but I told her not to. That it was kinda like spying on the enemy. Since then we broke up and are still friends who talk regularly. She still talks about going shooting and such which is cool. We only went out together one more time after that since it's hard to find someone to take your child and make time and all that. I just remembered feeling how good it was to be able to show someone the light. Has anyone else had an expierance like that?

[Spoonman]

1. NO,

I can't legally prescribe medications.
:sarcasm:

[Kolesar]

2. DU has a spell-checker, you know

I don't think you have to be a member (a paid supporter) to use it.

[Turbo Teg]

4. Oh sorry

I didn't know the grammer police were on the prowl.

[iverglas]

7. okay

that was self-parody, right?

[krispos42]

30. Grammer grammar?

He he he, I misspelled that word all the time as well until the spellchecker caught it.

I think it's because of actor Kelsey Grammer. :-)

[Spoonman]

9. It's all they've got.

Notice the lack of response to the content of your post.

[iverglas]

16. what response would you like?

Oh how nice. You had a girlfriend. Oh how nice. You introduced her to a new hobby. Oh how nice. She now has a public policy position that seems to be as irrational as the one she started with. Oh how nice.

Really, that's all I can think of to say in response to the content of the post. Summarized as: big whup.

[Turbo Teg]

43. Why do you post?

I can't really understand why you post? It doesn't seem like you really ever have anything worth saying. Your posts seem to be a lot of nothing. I've read a lot of them, and this is pretty much the conclusion I have come to. Your agruements are usually never that good, weak at best, you seem to act very childish and get off topic very easily. What do you contribute? Since you say all you can think of is "Oh how nice" why say anything at all? It's not like everyone is waiting to hear what iverglas has to say, and you have to say something and you decide to type a jumble of nothing.

[iverglas]

48. I'm hearing static

[Name removed]

65. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[iverglas]

74. gee, radioburning

There seems to be more than one guideline you're not familiar with.

I'm not hearing static. I'm hearing ignorance.
I can't help it. Your posts are childish and immature. You don't have the mental capacity to disprove anything. All you can do is go "na na na na na". You are a moron. This is not my opinion, you have proved this to be a fact. That's all I wanted to say on the matter...
:hi:



Not waving goodbye so soon, were you?


html fixed ...

[Kolesar]

23. Your post was truly uninteresting, lacking in style, and not worthy of analysis or comment

edit: and it's "spelling", not "grammer"

[SteveM]

25. So why are you commenting for a SECOND time?

[Kolesar]

34. that was dumb

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=118&topic_id=166283&mesg_id=166287

[Irreverend IX]

40. Some of these anti posts sound like fundies discussing porn...

"When I watched that Anal Rodeo movie, I was so revolted by its wanton ungodliness I nearly vomited! And the second time I watched it was even worse! And the third time I thought I could hear Satan speaking to me through the television! Anyway, I'm going back home to watch it again. I have to, uh, understand sin in order to fight it."

[Tejas]

41. I think half of them are drunk-posting lately n/t

[iverglas]

6. yes, but

then we'd never get to read about someone's piece of mind.

Well actually, I guess we would. It takes the human mind to debug that one.

[virginia mountainman]

3. Yes...On several occasions

All it takes is for them to have an open mind, and a willingness to acknowledge a few obvious facts..

But most anti's are so full of hyperbole and elitism, they almost float off into outer space.

I did manage to "inform" on strong anti a couple of years ago, now he is one of the strongest "civil rights" supporters i have ever met.

The "anti-civil" right ideal, like most other Republican ideas, easily crumble under the weight of logic.

[iverglas]

5. zzzzzzzzz

So someone who had never tried a sport discovered she enjoyed it. Did you offer to take her riding? Waterskiing? Mountain climbing? She might have enjoyed them too. Had anyone ever written poetry for her? Did you? She probably would have liked that too. You could have introduced her to the joys of cultivating rare orchids, doing home renovations, playing the flute ... any number of things she might never have tried and expected to find boring or annoying, or even scary, and discovered instead that they were fun.

What I'm failing to see ... yes, I'm just really thick, I know ... is what this has to do with anyone hauling his firearm around with him in public or having it on his person in anyone else's home, or what the public policy on firearms possession should be, or anything along that line that was obviously of concern to her and to many other people, and what her views on the subject were and why they would have changed because she discovered that shooting was fun.

So what was this "light" you showed her? That shooting is fun?

Big fucking whup.

[bossy22]

8. one word somes it up

Bias

i was once an anti-myself but i was taken shooting and i enjoyed it alot. So i went out and bought myself a Ruger 10/22. Even when i bought my first gun i was still big on gun control until i started getting into it more and started realizing the truth.

[Spoonman]

10. To demonstrate your attitude

"the joys of cultivating rare orchids"

Big fucking whup

[iverglas]

13. to demonstrate your

(a) total failure to comprehend anything you read
(b) amazing willingness to misrepresent anything you read
(c) is there a third option?

-- I didn't say "big whup" about shooting as a hobby.

Nonetheless, you say "big whup" about cultivating exotic orchids as a hobby. (I'd say the same myself; holds no interest for me.)

What "attitude" of mine you think you have demonstrated, I will never, ever know.

One person introduces another to the fun of shooting as a hobby. Another person introduces someone else to the fun of climbing mountains as a hobby. Both subjects thought they would not enjoy the hobby before they tried it, perhaps because they thought it would be boring or difficult or dangerous. What do I care, in either case? I don't. Not unless they're friends of mine, or something.

What people enjoy as hobbies is of no concern of mine when it comes to public policy, public policy being the subject matter of this forum.

Who turns whom on to what hobby is of the absolute utmost irrelevance to what any public policy should be.

And whether someone chooses to base his/her opinions about some public policy on whatever newfound hobby s/he has taken up ... well, that's not someone I'd be paying much attention to anyhow.

[Spoonman]

15. Food for thought

"What do I care, in either case? I don't"

"What people enjoy as hobbies is of no concern of mine"

"that's not someone I'd be paying much attention to anyhow."


Then why the hell did you even reply to his post?
































Attitude!

[Callisto32]

12. I'm sure my time spent writing this is what you are after but...

As I am sure you have all figured out by now if you've seen my admittedly few posts I am a gun owner, a shooter, a bit of an amateur gunsmith, and I manufacture my own ammunition. That said, I also am a photographer, trumpeter, dancer, singer, I enjoy growing plants of both the ornamental and edible variety, I raise dogs, I am my own auto mechanic, tailor, and housekeeper et cetera. If I can turn someone on to any of these things I am happy, but if I can turn a formerly "anti" into a shooter I am effing THRILLED. Why? Because generally there is some kind of irrational fear of the weapon based upon bias from God-knows-where or lack of familiarity. Helping somebody to get over that kind of fear IS a "Big fucking whup." For that matter, I felt the same way when I was a part of getting an arachnophobic friend to hold a tarantula. So, the light he showed her is that there is noting to be afraid of, and that being so is a waste of time and energy, and an unnecessary drain on the person.

So, iverglas, try to have a heart, and if you can't well.....you don't have to be a jerk.

[iverglas]

14. ah ...

For that matter, I felt the same way when I was a part of getting an arachnophobic friend to hold a tarantula.

So has your friend now decided that everyone who does not have a serious criminal record and/or a serious psychiatric/psychological problem in his/her past should be allowed to wander around shopping malls with tarantulas perched on his/her head?

And if so, I would care because ...?


So, the light he showed her is that there is noting to be afraid of, and that being so is a waste of time and energy, and an unnecessary drain on the person.

I just don't think that was the point of the little tale:

Since that day she has been pretty much pro gun. She was gonna stop getting the Emails or whatever from stop the NRA.Org (or com, whichever) but I told her not to. That it was kinda like spying on the enemy.

Sounds to me like one more person whose brain might have beeen addled by too much loud noise. Or maybe it was inhaling all that lead.

I like shooting stuff, therefore I have abandoned all my former beliefs about public policy relating to firearms. Rational? Not by any definition I can think of.

Mind you, her previous beliefs as regards the public policy in question may not have been rational either. I wouldn't know. I think we're supposed to believe her previous beliefs were a result of FEAR of firearms. Who knows? Not us. If so, well, big whup. Mine aren't, so what do I care?

[gorfle]

57. You just don't like it, Iverglas.

I like shooting stuff, therefore I have abandoned all my former beliefs about public policy relating to firearms. Rational? Not by any definition I can think of.

That's not the point, and you know it. You've just got your panties in a wad because here we have a classic example of someone who "hated guns" being exposed to them and discovering that when owned and used responsibly they aren't the great big bogey man they originally thought them to be.

It's amazing what happens when you take a generally decent, upright citizen and teach them in the proper way to handle firearms. What happens is that they make the connection - "Wow, if I'm a firearm owner and I'm a generally decent, upright citizen, all the rest of these firearm owners are probably decent, upright citzens, too - just like me!"

And it totally takes the thunder out of the "Gun owners are a bunch of salivating wackos with penis issues" that we are so commonly inundated with.

And I think that's what really chapes your ass more than anything.

[krispos42]

32. Yet none of those sports mentioned have political overtones

Billions of lobbyist dollars don't exist because of waterskiers. Politicians are not attacked because they are pro or against woodwinds. People don't base their political identity on which party supports gardening. And your right to climb mountains is not the subject of Constitutional debates.

What I'm failing to see ... yes, I'm just really thick, I know ... is what this has to do with anyone hauling his firearm around with him in public or having it on his person in anyone else's home, or what the public policy on firearms possession should be, or anything along that line that was obviously of concern to her and to many other people, and what her views on the subject were and why they would have changed because she discovered that shooting was fun.

I'll take a shot at answering.

It's because many of the people that advocate for very strict ownership and usage rules for firearms are people that know very little about guns and have never shot one. A significant portion of them, in fact, if given a chance to try shooting at a range, would probably refuse. This means that governmental laws and policy are strongly influenced by people that are willfully ignorant of the target of those regulations.

[Kolesar]

33. I think you are making stuff up and posting it on the internet

"It's because many of the people that advocate for very strict ownership and usage rules for firearms are people that know very little about guns and have never shot one. A significant portion of them, in fact, if given a chance to try shooting at a range, would probably refuse. "

I seriously doubt if you have data or numbers to support your opinion.

[krispos42]

35. Oh, like Representative McCarthy?

She wants to ban guns with barrel shrouds.


"What's a barrel shroud?", you might ask?

Well, BA, surely Rep. McCarthy knows. After all, she's in office based on her anti-gun platform. Let's ask her.


"I believe it's a shoulder thing that goes up."



Oops.

[Turbo Teg]

46. Shit, I just posted about this

and didn't realize you posted this too. Owell, I linked the video too for a visual aid for our slow learners.

[iverglas]

36. noooo

Why, I would never have said that. If you hadn't said it first.

The straw gets extremely thick in the air around here by the end of a day.

[Kolesar]

39. I'd rather talk about Banff

I'm planning a vacation. Have you ever been there?
No, I don't think I want to talk about it on this thread :goes without saying:.

[iverglas]

42. oh, just ignore them

TX Rat and I used to chat about the west all the time here. He's in Texas and flies up to fish in Manitoba, and I have to find places on the map for him that I've never heard of. ;) He keeps inviting me to come, and I keep hinting that he should fly over this way first and pick me up ...

I'm in Ontario and have only been west of Sudbury twice in my life. Once to Winnipeg in February, something I'd say I don't recommend except I wouldn't have missed the drive across the frozen top of Superior, and once to Calgary and Edmonton in August for a few days when I was kept busy getting chased by some foreign govt agents ... with guns (there you are, that must explain it all) ... and as I recall, while it may be a dry cold (as they're fond of telling us soggy easterners), it was a damn humid hot. So all in all, I didn't get to see too much out there. The co-vivant tells me the air in Saskatchewan is like nowhere else on earth. The drive from Edmonton to Calgary at night is quite impressive, if you like stars. Lots of 'em.

Now, the St Lawrence, the rest of the Great Lakes, Newfoundland, the Maritimes, I can tell you about them! But you could always drop into the Canada forum for tips. There's western types there.

[bossy22]

37. the proof is in the legislation itself

first off the first assault weapon ban had so many holes in it you could fly an elephant through it. The new ban is even worse- it bans such rifles as the Steyr Aug (already not imported- banned from importation) and the Tavor (which is a fully auto machine gun so it would never be imported). If they knew anything about firearms they would have made a bill that actually made some sense.

Their biggest fallacy was thinking that by banning some cosmetic features, they could ban guns, not realizing the industry would just remove those features

[Turbo Teg]

45. Well, if you read

a lot of anti gun propaganda and know a lot about firearms, you'd know. Like when someone is talking about AK-47s bieng used in crime and how they should be banned or what not while showing a picture of an AR-15, just to name the first one that came to my mind. Or when some lawmaker says that the AR-15 is way more leathal than a Ruger ranch rifle (mini-14), or when Carolyn McCarthy can't even describe what a barrel shroud is even though she wants them banned on firearms.



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ospNRk2uM3U And it's deffinatly not a "shoulder thing that goes up"! Also, those guns used only accounted for about 2% of gun crimes. Hmmm, sounds to me like she doesn't know what she's talking about. Anyhow, I don't have hard data to back this up. I'm sorry, just my personal expierance.

[bossy22]

49. hard data

is in the legislation my friend

[gorfle]

58. Dead-on, Krispos!

It's because many of the people that advocate for very strict ownership and usage rules for firearms are people that know very little about guns and have never shot one. A significant portion of them, in fact, if given a chance to try shooting at a range, would probably refuse. This means that governmental laws and policy are strongly influenced by people that are willfully ignorant of the target of those regulations.

QFT!

Excellently put, Krispos.

[radioburning]

66. I like this guy!

Very well put, krispos42. I like your style...

[iverglas]

73. Is that you

Mary Rosh?

[radioburning]

78. Brilliant

Yeah, wow...you found me out. Jeez, you're good.:sarcasm:

[Turbo Teg]

44. Well I guess I'll break it down for you.

It seems to me that she had an irrational fear of firearms and the people who use them. It also has to do with the fact that she's opened up to the idea of normal people carrying firearms for protection, and no longer thinks that anyone who carrys a gun is a criminal and such. I don't know why this would have anything to do with carrying a gun in a persons home or what public policy on firearms is. She didn't "discover" shooting was fun, she "discovered" something she knew nothing about. She hated guns without even knowing anything about them. She believed the BS that CNN and 60 minutes showed, and what her friends and such told her. The "light" I showed her that a firearm is nothing more than a tool. I took the "mystery" out of the object and let her see it for what it is, just a piece of equipment.

[iverglas]

47. and we care because

That's the part I just can't figure out. Why do I care what some complete stranger thinks about anybody?

Does the fact that she now thinks that the people she knows who play with firearms are charming fellows mean something? Does it mean that some people who aren't charming fellows don't have firearms? That the charming fellows she has met don't leave a firearm in the bedside table when they go out, for who knows who to get hold of?

She hated guns without even knowing anything about them.

What, she didn't know that three friends had murdered by someone using a gun? What I saw was that she asked a relative stranger not to bring a firearm into the home where her child lived. Seemed damned responsible, to me.

What I still don't see is what the fuck this has to do with anything.

If someone I don't know is such a flake that s/he decides what public policies to support based on what hobbies s/he enjoys and who enjoys them with her, I don't really need to know anything else. This person is so irrelevant to anything that she may as well not exist.


If you people would get over your fear of people who advocate stringent firearms control policies, you might make sense occasionally. Pretending that everyone who disagrees with you about public policy is either ignorant or irrational just makes you look dumb and unpleasant.

We won't hurt you, really. We don't shoot your silly "arguments" down unless you pull the trigger.

[Turbo Teg]

54. Another post with really no point.

Well what it does mean is that she no longer thinks that everyone who owns a gun is a bad person. Asking a relitive stranger to not bring a gun in the home is fine. I wasn't gonna bring one in after she asked. But please don't say that a gun in the home is gonna make her child any less safe, it just makes you look dumb and unpleasant. There are 80 million gun onwers out there who I'm sure have children, and since the stats say your child is more likely to drown in a pool than a be shot with a gun, I think it's safe to say the children will be ok with guns in he house.

The public policy on firearms have been created by people that are totally ignorant about firearms. Completely ignorant. If they weren't we wouldn't have ended up with a useless '94 AWB, which was good for us, because if they actually knew anything about guns we would have ended up with an even more stringent ban. What I did was help someone get over an irrational fear and take another look at the issue. Once she got over the fear and was able to look at it from a different point of view, her opinion on the matter changed.

If you would just get over your fears of people who advocate firearms rights , you might make sense occasionally. Pretending that everyone who disagrees with you about public policy is either ignorant or irrational just makes you look dumb and unpleasant. We won't hurt you, really. We won't shoot your silly "arguements" down unless you pull the trigger.

[cliffordu]

11. A slight edit to the OP

A few years ago, I met a girl who I was thinking about seeing. We met up a few times and went to restrounts and such and we had a good time. I came over to her house a few times and everything was going pretty decent. Now one day while we we're going into her house she had brushed up against me and felt my vibrator 27 in my waist band. "What's that?" she asked. "It's my concealed carry vibrator " I said. Now I never told her I carried concealed, well, because it never really came up.

"Well you can't bring that in here" she said. I asked why not, and told her that everytime we met up and I came over, I had been carrying a vibrator. " I have a child" she said, which I obviously already knew. "Can't you just leave it in your car or something?" I said no, that I wasn't going to leave a 500.00 dollar piece of equipment in my car to get stolen. I told her that I understand that she doesn't want vibrators in her house and that was fine and that I'll leave. I also told her that if she didn't like vibrators, it wasn't gonna work out between us anyway. I pretty much figured that's that and was on my way back to my truck when she told me not to leave. I told her again that I'm not leaving my vibrator anywhere and that it was gonna stay on my hip. She reluctantly agreed. Once we got into her home it was kinda wierd now, since we kinda had our first "fight" and we really weren't even dating. She gave me the usual run down of questions like, "Why do you have that?", "Is it registered?" "Are you licensed to carry it?", etc.

I told her that I carry it for protection, and piece of mind knowing that if for whatever reason I need it, it's there. I told her that there is no registration in the state of Ohio and that I was licenesed to carry. I answered a few more questions before she started telling me about how she hated vibrators and was a member of stop the NRA.org and all that jazz. I asked what made her so anti-vibrator and she told me she had 3 friends killed during a robbery. (It was actually a relitively high profile case here in ohio a while ago, I didn't know she knew the victums untill then, they were tied up then shot) I asked her if she'd ever shot a vibrator before. She said she hadn't. We did a little more talking and then to my surprise, she wanted to see it. I said OK. I went to the kitchen and unloaded the magazine and racked the one out of the chamber and brought it back to her. She kinda took it nervously and looked it over. "That's lighter than I thought it would be" she said. She said something about my vibrator bieng ugly, but that's ok, I get that a lot. I showed her how to hold it and told her the basics of vibrator safety. "Is there a lot of kick?" She asked. I told her there was a decent amount with that vibrator because of the cartridge and light wieght, but told her there are other vibrators that are real mild. I asked if she ever wanted to try shooting one. She told me no.

I said "C'mon, I'll even buy you lunch and dinner if you come with me." She thought about it and said ok, but that she was only gonna try it, and not to be mad if she didn't like it. It must have been about two weeks or so later that we we're actually able to arrange it. I brought the vibrator 19, the Bushmaster AR-15, and the AK-27. She looked at the the rifles with a worried look on her face. I told her that they were pussy cats as far as shooting, but that we were gonna start with the 9mm. We put on all the nesasary protection and then loaded up. I started first. I emptied the mag and put in a fresh one and handed it to her. He was nervous I could tell but she handled it like a champ. She blew of about 3 rounds before she got into it. After she emptied out the mag, she was smiling. "That was cool", I told her I know and that 80,000,000 vibrator owners couldn't be wrong. She wasn't to nervous when we got to the rifles now. Loaded up the Bushmaster and the AK, and we started firing. She was on the AR and I on the AK. We swapped out and that was it. She wanted to shoot the AR for the rest of the time. Since that day she has been pretty much pro vibrator. She was gonna stop getting the Emails or whatever from stop the NRA.Org (or com, whichever) but I told her not to. That it was kinda like spying on the enemy. Since then we broke up and are still friends who talk regularly. She still talks about going shooting and such which is cool. We only went out together one more time after that since it's hard to find someone to take your child and make time and all that. I just remembered feeling how good it was to be able to show someone the light. Has anyone else had an expierance like that?

[iverglas]

17. well there you are

Surely the US really has legalized pot after all. Can there be any other explanation for this??

[MadAndy]

18. I have found that the best way to convert an anti is to take them shooting.

Works every time.

[iverglas]

19. do you only meet stupid people?

How primitive must someone's brain be for "I like shooting things therefore firearms control is evil" to make sense to him/her?

Maybe I'm not understanding something here.

I mean, it's not like the pseudo-term "anti-gunner" actually means anything. My great-uncle was a gunner in WWI. I'm not opposed to him.

[MadAndy]

21. Stupid people are those who are so ideologically rigid that their minds

are closed. Feel free to revel in your ignorance. Alot of antigun types live in cites and only hear about guns associated with crime or accidents. They often dont know anyone who owns one legally. It's not surprising they are initially afraid of them. By taking them shooting, they become familiar with how they operate and that they are not evil talismans that cause you to commit crimes. They also learn that target shooting is fun. Rather than considering them stupid I think they are smart enough to realise that the line of BS they have been fed for decades is BS after a little first hand experience.

[Kolesar]

20. "She brushed up against me and felt my Glock 27 in my waist band"

...and I just knew what that juicy nubile was thinking. She combed her hair back from over that tiny halter top she was wearing asked me if I had a permit for that thing. Before I could answer, she told me that I couldn't get a permit for concealed and that I was going to have to produce...

[SteveM]

26. He comments a THIRD time. He's fascinated!

[DrCory]

38. Bet he's typing with only one hand!

N/T

[SteveM]

59. I guess the "Pepsi syndrome" takes on new meaning.

[iverglas]

60. well I don't know that one

but it's obviously an ethnic slur directed at French Canadians.



testing, testing ...


edit

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pepsi_Syndrome

HA!

Never mind!

[Longtooth]

69. Oh come on! What happened next?

[Spoonman]

22. I can't resist

Yea I tried it once, I dulled every knife I had and two carbide skill saw blades trying to remove the skull cap!:rofl:

[spin]

24. I wonder if it is a good idea to take a girl friend shooting...

The ones I did take shooting were fast learners and enjoyed shooting.

They could hit the circular bullseye on a 25 yard rapid fire target frequently.

If I changed the target to a silhouette target for self defense practice (the target resembles a person) they tended to shoot low. I'd tell them "Center body mass, center body mass." They would just look at me and smile.

[SteveM]

27. Yes. He "came over," but is hesitant about hunting (vegetarian, y'know).

[razors edge]

28. Looks like somebody

got Chuck Schumer to remove that bug from his ass long enough to enjoy a little TEC-9 action, unfortunately he stuck it back in immediately afterward. (Where were his safety glasses?)

[apocalypsehow]

29. Was this originally published in Penthouse Forum?

"she had brushed up against me and felt my Glock 27 in my waist band. "What's that?" she asked."

Good grief. :eyes:

[liberal4truth]

51. Or made up on the fly by the OP. Either way, its' definitely a stinker.

I have read way to many "stories" like this over the last 30 years, all pure BS,
with no proof ever offered at all.

[bossy22]

52. its kinda hard

to show proof for a personal story....i don't think many people publish those

[Turbo Teg]

55. What proof do you need.

There's no way I can back it up. I don't really care if you believe it or not.I think you just don't like the idea of people going from anti-gun to pro-gun. I think most of the anti gun people are pretty angry in general because gun control has been majorly declining in the last few years. WE MUST ALL BE LOOSING OUR MINDS! By the way, your post was a major stinker! You really have nothing to say so you just say the other persons lying. You have anything to back up that I'm lying? Thought not. Typical anti-gun garbage.

[iiibbb]

31. Lots of times

My wife included.

I haven't turned any of them into NRA members, but a lot of anti-s I've worked on have at least come around to neutral. As long as I can get them to understand that most gun-control legislation is all fluff that won't change criminals' behavior I'm happy.

[Endangered Specie]

50. At least two people, one a guy, one a girl.

[iverglas]

62. but you forget! (with addition)

You changed your own mind, dincha??

Hahahahahah.


"Poll question: A poll about GUNS: What is your view?"
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=118&topic_id=107180&mesg_id=107252

Endangered Specie
Thu Jun-16-05 04:41 PM
Response to Original message
72. I dont know entirely what the current laws are...

but I know that virtually every automatic weapon is banned, and that is how I voted. Though this question is pratically impossible to sum up in a poll.

I still believe in regulations for buying ANY weapon, including required training, safety courses, legal instructions, and criminal checks. Not to mention, and criminal (ex or other wise) should not be allowed a gun, the bar for what makes a "criminal" versus "minor offendor" is hard to draw, but at least anyone with a felony conviction or violent crime conviction should be barred for life.

Im not quite sure what to think about the whole .50 cal thing.

I also like the idea of age limits for owning a weapon too (18 sounds about right).

My goal here is to strike a middle ground, I dont take very seriously any of the extremes on this issue ("Ban them all", and "Allow them all" are equally far-fetched imho).

It is ridiculous to say that no one can be able to have a .22 pratice rifle, or a home protection shotgun, or a defensive revolver. It is also equally ridiculous to say that anyone ought to be allowed to own any gun, such as full size Machine Guns (by that, I mean things like MG42's etc...) or artillery pieces.

The debate is where do you draw the line in the middle.

There were actually better ones from the old, pre-improved Endangered Specie, but that's what I'm finding on a quick search.

You just talked yourself right around, dincha?

Ha. Ha.



Aha, found some better.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=118&topic_id=70822&mesg_id=70822

Endangered Specie
Thu Jul-15-04 01:51 PM
Original message
As a not very pro-gun person... I would like to declare the AWB..

useless, one of the most dumbest pieces of legislation Ive seen in some time.

It does pratically nothing to curtail weapons, as a matter of fact it HURTS the gun control advocates cause, it is a distraction, people, because of the name think it actually does what the title says... just like the Patriot Act :eyes:


Endangered Specie (
Thu Jul-15-04 06:34 PM
Response to Reply #18
20. Take this test...

Id hope youd agree with me that ALL the weapons probably should be banned, not just a select few on very shaky criteria.

http://www.ont.com/users/kolya/AR15/awc.htm


MrBenchley
Thu Jul-15-04 06:35 PM
Response to Reply #20
21. Oh, I see....

So you want the AWB to be stricter...is that it?


Endangered Specie
Thu Jul-15-04 07:01 PM
Response to Reply #21
22. YES

very much so.

I call it stupid and useless becaus it bans some guns but completely misses others that are just as deadly, if not more so!

People think it makes them safer, but it really doesnt, it doesnt need renewing, it needs some serious rewriting, it has NO teeth!

I love history!

Even when it was kinda a fairy tale to start with.

[Hoosier lawyer]

53. a couple

I got to my law school roomie by explaining the racist and statist nature of gun/people control. After living with me for a couple of years he went from a total gun grabber to contemplating getting a concealed carry license.

My partner is coming along slowly. She is from a fake eastern liberal background, so I am the first actual person she knew who owns or carries a gun. I have showed her that most of the anti arguments are pretty weak, but it will take a long time to fully overcome decades of media bullshit.

[iverglas]

63. jeez, some of you people have dumb friends

They have stupid ideas to start with, and they change their minds at the first whiff of garbage.

I love that "fake eastern liberal background". I just don't quite know what it means ...

[radioburning]

67. That doesn't surprise me at all, iverglas. That doesn't surprise me at all...

"I just don't quite know what it means ..."

That doesn't surprise me at all, iverglas. That doesn't surprise me at all...
:dunce:

[DemOkie]

56. Yup Teg I have, but

My story doesn't involve a former girlfriend. Way many years ago when I was in the College Dems, my best bud started as a fierce anti-RKBA guy. I think he was especially pissed that a US Senate candidate he had worked very hard for lost to Repblican doofus, a fact he blamed on the NRA. Being new to the state at that time, I asked what his candidates positions on RKBA were. By the time he got through, I pointed out that his candidates position was 100% anti-gun, so what did you expect the NRA to do? Long story short, after some time he became, while not entirely pro-gun, at least he accepted that the 2nd Amendment was an individual right and that guns are simply tools, and that the person wielding them determines the outcome. BTW, I went on to work with his candidates next campaign as his unofficial gun rights advisor. I still think if he had followed my advice, this state would have had a Democratic Senator instead of a Republican.

[iverglas]

64. talk about yer dumb friends

at least he accepted that ... guns are simply tools, and that the person wielding them determines the outcome

I mean, how stupid would someone have to be not to have figured that out on his/her own?

What did this guy start out thinking? That firearms were little robots from outer space with little cyberminds of their own?

[Hoosier lawyer]

68. what makes them stupid?

The fact that they are not true believers like you? I like how you throw your toys out of the pram whenever someone does not agree with you. Your name calling is childish and makes you hard to take seriously.

[old mark]

61. YES! My wife.

My wife is a nice Jewish girl from Philly, parents a Corporate Lawyer and a College Prof/PhD, was anti-gun from birth.
I have been an ardent handgunner since the 1970's.
I bought a used .357 magnum about 14 years ago, and taught her to shoot.
She loved it.
She has had her own gun, an older S&W revolver, for several years.
She has been disabled for about 6 years, and spent most of her time alone at home while I was working.
She felt much more secure with the gun nearby.
She is my only convert, but she is the only one I was concerned about, so I guess I am a success.

mark

[radioburning]

70. "Gun Nut"="Art Fag"

"Gun Nut" equals "Art Fag". For the record, I don't approve of either term.
I'm just trying to make people aware of the fact there are a lot of people in this country, whether you like it or not, that enjoy shooting guns in a lawful, legal ways and that does not automatically make us violent, psychotic, depressed, a republican, a redneck, racist, poorly educated, anti-social, or a "nut". We just want you to stop trying to take away our right to go to the shooting range and try to get closer to that bullseye, go hunting and bring home some food that didn't come from the supermarket, collect and admire specific guns for their aesthetic value or quality of craftsmanship or design, or just plain sleep better at night knowing that if you hear somebody breaking into your home you have the chance to do something to protect your life and that of your loved ones-other than just sitting on hold waiting for 911 to pick up. Whatever the reasons are that people want guns, when you call someone a "gun nut", or any other of the derogatory terms people use against gun enthusiasts, you're doing the same thing as when somebody calls someone into the art scene an "art fag". All it is is a way to negate everything about a person because you are ignorant to what makes them passionate about something. It's the same thing, just coming from a different direction.
Fine. You don't understand why we'd be at all interested in anything related to guns. I don't understand why anyone would be interested in anything related to onions! But I understand that there are other people in the world who love onions. So be it. I move on. Now here's where you say "well, onions don't kill people". Well, guns don't kill as many people as automobiles. Guns don't kill as many people as prescription drugs. Guns kill literally less than 1 tenth as many people than "poor diet and lack of exercise" (if you look at causes of death on the Center for Disease Control's annual totals). For the most part, most people just attribute those things to "symptoms of living in the modern world", and accept that the world will never be an absolutely perfect "utopia". But so called "assault weapons", which are the "evil boogeyman" of guns, get banned-not because they are responsible for less than 5% of all gun deaths, but because they look menacing and intimidating. Don't believe me? An AR-15(banned) and a Ruger Mini-14(not banned) shoot the same bullet, at roughly the same velocity and speed. The only "real world" difference is the way they look. That's like taking two similar cars and banning the one with the racing stripes because "it looks fast". Most of these gun laws are proposed by people who've never even been shooting. Motorcycle helmet laws were decided mostly by people who've never even been on a motorcycle. I almost cry when I see a 13 year old kid riding their bicycle around in quiet a cul-de-sac wearing a helmet because some bloated, out of touch politician thought it would be a good idea to play parent to a state! How long till we have to wear a helmet while shopping in the mall? This is an exaggeration, but what if the girls on the tv show "Laguna Beach" were deciding laws that affected your life? The laws would seem perfectly normal to them! Wouldn't you start to speak up about it? It's like people who will only have sex in missionary position making laws to make you have sex in only missionary position. You wouldn't even know I had guns unless you were standing next to me at the shooting range. Stay out of my life!
We are just people who are tired of being demonized by people who are usually completely ignorant about why we are passionate about guns, and when you call us gun nuts we see exactly what you are trying to do-belittle us because we are strong in our beliefs and you are afraid of anyone who is not afraid to be what they want to be and do what makes them happy...even if it makes the squeamish and timid nay in disapproval.

End of rant.

Signed,
radioburning
Liberal, Agnostic, Pro-Gun, Pro-America.

[pipoman]

71. Just a heads up

it is usually frowned upon to post the exact same post in more than one thread. It is viewed as a waste of bandwidth just FYI.

[radioburning]

72. Copy That. Sorry! Noob Here...

Thanks for the heads up...

[mvccd1000]

75. Yes, at least two of them.

It's kind of like showing a child something. Once their eyes are open, they are amazed at how wrong they've been.

Sounds like we have several people here who like to live life "eyes wide shut."

[Tejas]

76. interesting observation there

could it be that the "eyes wide shut" comes from being in the minority?

[facepalm]

77. Yes, I've convinced many.

The easiest way to turn someone to the pro gun side is to live in a state with concealed carry and reveal to them that almost everyone they have known for the past 10 years is carrying. And that crime is consistently 30 percent lower than before FL started concealed carry 20 years ago.

The other way is invite them shooting.

Most people aren't anti-gun any more than rural white people are inherently racist. People basically respond with hostility and fear to anything that is unusual to them. This is just as true of urban liberals as it is of rural working class people.

[iverglas]

79. yeah, why not tell, er, half-truths?

And that crime is consistently 30 percent lower than before FL started concealed carry 20 years ago.

It's probably the best, er, weapon you've got ...


http://www.firstcoastnews.com/news/florida/news-article.aspx?storyid=106460

TALLAHASSEE, FL (AP) -- The rate of serious crimes in Florida edged up in 2007 after years of declines, with a particularly alarming increase in the number of crimes involving guns.

The overall crime rate -- factoring in population growth -- was up 1.4 percent in 2007, over where it was in 2006, according to data released by the Florida Department of Law Enforcement. But for crimes in which guns were used, the numbers were much larger.

Murders involving guns went up 11.5 percent last year and armed robberies with guns increased by 25 percent, from about 14,300 in 2006 to just under 18,000 last year. Aggravated assaults with firearms also went up, by 6.5 percent.

... While it was the first year in more than a decade that the overall crime rate has gone up, violent crimes have been creeping up in Florida for a couple years. In 2007, violent crime increased by just under 2 percent, following a 3 percent increase the year before.

People basically respond with hostility and fear to anything that is unusual to them. This is just as true of urban liberals as it is of rural working class people.

Blah.
Blah.
Blah.

You and your ever-changing choir in the Guns forum, singing away about how stupid anyone who disagrees with you about public policy is. If only it were all true, eh?