Cartoon by Patrick Corrigan of the The Toronto Star re Miller's closing shooting ranges. n/t

[jody]

[Taverner]

1. That is like the dumbest thing...ever done

How a shooting range can contribute to crime....<shakes head>

[Hangingon]

2. I shoot regularly at two ranges. All I se are law abiding

citizens. The local news regularly reports gang drive by shootings. I guess that is where gangsters learn to shoot.

[iverglas]

3. you're pretty lucky you didn't meet Edward Paredes!

http://www.thestar.com/comment/columnists/article/305916

"I am going to shoot you," Zekarias is alleged to have threatened, after brushing himself off from a rough deposit on the street, as bouncer Mario Ordonez told police. Gibson quoted: "Zekarias was shouting (to Paredes), "Give me the gun. I'll do this guy."

Two other bar staffers said they heard Zekarias urge Paredes to use variously his "gat," "piece" or "rod."

... Paredes was described as calm and apparently not wishing to provoke further trouble. Then, court heard, "he loses it," turning around, pulling a gun from his waistband, twice racking his weapon (a second casing was found on the pavement) and firing directly at employee Shane Knox as the latter ducked inside the doorway.

That bullet found O'Keefe, who'd wandered into the crosshairs.

... Court heard that Paredes belonged to a gun club, legally owned the Baby Eagle 9-mm semiautomatic and had a "permit to transport," properly stored – not tucked down the front of his pants.

And not to a strip club on Yonge Street. Not anywhere but between his home and the gun club.


I just love words of wisdom from the ignorant.

[Hangingon]

11. Actually I would say I am pretty ucky not to have to live in Canada

[iverglas]

12. well, I didn't say it

but there's a good chance I'd agree that you're pretty ucky.

[Hangingon]

13. Thanks for noting the typo.

I guess a blind squirrel finds an acorn every once in a while. Since the message was missed, I am so happy I don't live in Canada. Shame to have to say that because the country is beautiful.

[iverglas]

4. you're REALLY lucky you didn't meet Kimveer Gill!!

http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/20060914/gill_profile_060914/20060914/

In an autobiographical survey, he answers the question, "How do you want to die?" with an eerie foreshadowed response: "Like Romeo and Juliet -- or -- in a hail of gunfire."

Gill died after shooting himself in the head, but not before wounding more than a dozen people and killing 18-year-old Anastasia DeSousa.

In a blog on VampireFreaks.com, an online hub of goth culture, journal entries made in Gill's name speak about the hatred he feels toward society and his obsession for guns.

He owned the guns he used legally, and belonged to a gun club, too.

And I guess he was law-abiding right up to when he took those guns to Dawson College and started shooting people.

[iverglas]

5. did somebody say a shooting range contributed to crime?

Did it occur to you to get a clue before typing?

[krispos42]

6. I believe that's what the Toronto mayor said, yes n/t

[iverglas]

7. could you quote him please?

And while you're here, could you tell us where the handgun being sold on the streetcorner in the cartoon came from?

[krispos42]

8. Sure

Although I suspect you know exactly what I'm about to quote and where I got it from:

Miller wants shooting ranges shut down

May 27, 2008 04:30 AM
John Spears
Robert Benzie
Staff Reporters

Mayor David Miller wants to close recreational shooting ranges in Toronto, along with giving the city power to block gun manufacturers and wholesalers from opening new plants or warehouses.

"Nobody can deny that hobby directly results in people being shot and killed on the streets of our city," Miller said of sport shooting yesterday, amid debate on a possible gun bylaw.

<more>

http://www.thestar.com/News/GTA/article/431333

And in the cartoon the first impression that I got was that business owner was selling off his inventory for whatever he could get for it after his business was forced to close.

Or it was a statement that closing the range was irrelevent to the issue of guns getting into the hands of criminals.

I don't think it's a particulary good political cartoon either way.

[iverglas]

9. that's what I expected

Your assertion is that

"Nobody can deny that hobby directly results in people being shot and killed on the streets of our city"

is a statement that a shooting range contributes to crime.

Well, sorry, it isn't.

You know perfectly well that Miller's concern is about the firearms in the possession of gun hobbyists that leak into the hands of gun criminals. And you know perfectly well that this is what Miller meant when he said that the hobby directly results in people being shot and killed on the streets of Toronto.


And in the cartoon the first impression that I got was that business owner was selling off his inventory for whatever he could get for it after his business was forced to close.

No, sorry, that doesn't make any sense. No firearms are sold at shooting ranges in Toronto. (At least I wouldn't think so, but even if they were, that isn't the point. I doubt the cartoonist would be attacking Miller by portraying law-abidin' gun folks as traffickers.)

The cartoon was depicting the alleged futility of closing shooting ranges when the "real" problem is that handguns are available on any streetcorner. You know -- no hits on the "gangs" and "thugs" and "smuggling" targets, all the hits on the "legal gun owners" target.

So for pity's sake, are you people not even understanding the editorial message you find so trenchant?

Or it was a statement that closing the range was irrelevent to the issue of guns getting into the hands of criminals.

Yes, that would be it. It's an opinion. One that is quite reasonable, in fact, as part of a comprehensive analysis of the problems. As a stand-alone statement, it is a dishonest effort to evade the real issue.

The real issue is that Miller and Toronto council and police have been doing everything they can within their jurisdiction to address the problem of handguns in the possession of gangs and thugs in Toronto, but the problem is not one that they have jurisdiction to tackle directly. One aspect of the problem is the leakage of restricted firearms from hobbyists to criminals. Toronto authorities can do nothing about that, as long as hobbyists are allowed, under federal law, to possess restricted firearms, i.e. handguns.

So Miller has proposed an attention-getting measure that highlights the futility of everything municipal authorities might do to solve municipal problems -- people being victimized on municipal streets by individuals whose handguns leaked out of the possession of gun hobbyists -- because what really needs to be done has to be done by another level of government, which refuses to do anything.

The cartoon falls into the dishonest cheap shot category, just like the previous one.

[krispos42]

10. Okay, then

Mayor David Miller wants to close recreational shooting ranges in Toronto, along with giving the city power to block gun manufacturers and wholesalers from opening new plants or warehouses.

"Nobody can deny that hobby directly results in people being shot and killed on the streets of our city," Miller said of sport shooting yesterday, amid debate on a possible gun bylaw.

This is the phrase we're working from.

"Nobody can deny that hobby directly results in people being shot and killed on the streets of our city,"

That's Mayor Miller. By "that hobby" he means sport or recreational shooting. And, therefore, he wants to close the shooting ranges to stop the hobby of sport shooting, which will then no longer directly result in people getting shot and killed in Toronto directly (as in the guy with the Beretta Storm Cx4 carbine you referenced earlier), or indirectly, by reducing the ability of Toronto residents to go sport shooting and thus the number of sport shooters.

No, sorry, that doesn't make any sense. No firearms are sold at shooting ranges in Toronto. (At least I wouldn't think so, but even if they were, that isn't the point. I doubt the cartoonist would be attacking Miller by portraying law-abidin' gun folks as traffickers.)

No, that's not what I meant. I meant things like firearms stored in lockers at the range, or rental pistols, being sold illegally to whoever has ready cash, presumebly to overcome financial losses.

The cartoon falls into the dishonest cheap shot category, just like the previous one.

I agree.