is it incorperated

[bossy22]

i was doin a quick scan of the decision and didnt see real mention of incorporation

did anyone see anythin about the 2A applying to the states

[Fredda Weinberg]

1. Constitutional rights always do. n/t

[Fovea]

2. The fourth amendment and the second.

Ruby Ridge, Waco, etc.

If you can't keep your home free from search and seizure with the fourth, you frequently end up losing your life defending the second.

I cannot help but think it works better the other way around.

[SteveM]

3. From Scotusblog...

On the question of the Second Amendment’s application to the States: “23 With respect to Cruikshank’s continuing validity on incorporation, a question not presented by this case, we note that Cruikshank also said that the First Amendment did not apply against the States and did not engage in the sort of Fourteenth Amendment inquiry required by our later cases. Our later decisions in Presser v. Illinois, 116 U. S. 252, 265 (1886) and Miller v. Texas, 153 U. S. 535, 538 (1894), reaffirmed that the Second Amendment applies only to the Federal Government.”

[bossy22]

4. shit

well there goes any hope of change in NYS law

[SlipperySlope]

5. give it time...

They couldn't rule on incorporation because that wasn't the question in front of them. Give it time.

[bossy22]

7. i hope it does

then we can fix up this %500 dollar permit fiasco to own a pistol

[SlipperySlope]

6. Summary of Heller incorporation

No. Heller was not incorporated in the 14th amendment.

The court did not rule on incorporation because that was not the question in front of them. The attorneys who argued this case carefully picked DC because it would allow them to avoid the incorporation question; DC is a federal district, not a state.

Rights are not automatically incorporated. The court practices "selective incorporation", basically meaning it isn't incorporated until the court says it is.

None of this is either good news or bad news. This is all as expected. The attorneys avoided the incorporation question, the court wasn't asked the incorporation question, and the court didn't rule on the incorporation question.

There is a footnote about incorporation however:

23. With respect to Cruikshank’s continuing validity on incorporation, a question not presented by this case, we note that Cruikshank also said that the First Amendment did not apply against the States and did not engage in the sort of Fourteenth Amendment inquiry required byour later cases. Our later decisions in Presser v. Illinois, 116 U. S. 252, 265 (1886) and Miller v. Texas, 153 U. S. 535, 538 (1894), reaffirmed that the Second Amendment applies only to the Federal Government.

Incorporation will have to be settled at a later date.

[MyRV9]

8. What I don't get...

Is that the 2nd amendment doesn't grant a right - it imposes a limitation on government - said limitation ratified by all the states. Why should it not apply?

[TPaine7]

10. Because debatably

it was only intended to be a limitation on the Federal government.

There are counterarguments, like Dred Scott's dicta, but that is at least a respectable opinion.

The 14th Amendment emphatically empowered the Second Amendment's enforcement against the states.

See my open letter at www.obamaonsecond.com for a sketch of the history.

[Indy Lurker]

11. no one has said it doesn't

the problem is that the supreme court has not said that it applies to all the states.

The reason it has not said whether it applies to the states or not is because it was not asked if it applies to the states.


It was not asked if applied to the states because the law in question was not a state law.

[TPaine7]

9. Ditto

I read that quote as a simple statement of fact.

The history of the 14th Amendment overwhelmingly, I would say irrefutably, argues for 2nd Amendment incorporation.

(The abolitionists who wrote the Amendment thought they were protecting the individual right to bear arms against state infringement. Gun control lunatics who spew bovine scatology obviously think they know better than the guys who wrote the 14th, but so what.)