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davepc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-26-08 02:47 PM
Original message
Pelosi Says D.C. Should Continue Gun Regulation
House Speaker Nancy Pelosi (D-Calif.) says that despite the Supreme Court decision to strike down its gun ban, the District of Columbia will still be able to regulate firearms.

"I think it still allows the District of Columbia to come forward with a law that’s less pervasive," Pelosi said at her weekly briefing Thursday. "I think the court left a lot of room to run in terms of concealed weapons and guns near schools."


http://briefingroom.thehill.com/2008/06/26/pelosi-says-dc-should-continue-gun-regulation/
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NightWatcher Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-26-08 02:50 PM
Response to Original message
1. the court OK'd guns in private homes. they didnt say anything about schools or CCW
holy crap Nancy is appearing to be a big time gun grabber. I cant wait till she is replaced
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jody Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-26-08 02:54 PM
Response to Reply #1
2. The opinion was not limited to homes, it said "1. The Second Amendment protects an individual right
to possess a firearm unconnected with service in a militia, and to use that arm for traditionally lawful purposes, such as self-defense within the home."

"self-defense within the home" is an example but the broad protection required by the 2nd is "to use that arm for traditionally lawful purposes".
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RaleighNCDUer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-26-08 03:18 PM
Response to Reply #2
3. Funny how the actual wording of the 2nd amendment
says no such thing.
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davepc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-26-08 03:21 PM
Response to Reply #3
4. Funny, that's the rights argument against Roe....
IT DOESN'T SAY ANYTHING RIGHT TO PRIVACY IN MY CONSTITUTION!!!!@$!%!@#%@#%!#$%
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jody Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-26-08 03:40 PM
Response to Reply #3
6. Read the opinion and you'll find it used state constitutions, e.g. PA (1776) and VT (1777) to decide
what the parties that entered into the social contract we know as the Constitution and then approved amendments we know as the Bill of Rights meant by RKBA.
(c) The Court’s interpretation is confirmed by analogous arms-bearing rights in state constitutions that preceded and immediately followed the Second Amendment. Pp. 28–30.


Our interpretation is confirmed by analogous arms-bearing rights in state constitutions that preceded and immediately followed adoption of the Second Amendment. Four States adopted analogues to the Federal Second Amendment in the period between independence and the ratification of the Bill of Rights. Two of them— Pennsylvania and Vermont—clearly adopted individual rights unconnected to militia service. Pennsylvania’s Declaration of Rights of 1776 said: “That the people have a right to bear arms for the defence of themselves, and the state . . . .” §XIII, in 5 Thorpe 3082, 3083 (emphasis added). In 1777, Vermont adopted the identical provision, except for inconsequential differences in punctuation and capitalization. See Vt. Const., ch. 1, §15, in 6 id., at 3741.

North Carolina also codified a right to bear arms in 1776: “That the people have a right to bear arms, for the defence of the State . . . .” Declaration of Rights §XVII, in id., at 2787, 2788. This could plausibly be read to support only a right to bear arms in a militia—but that is a peculiar way to make the point in a constitution that elsewhere repeatedly mentions the militia explicitly. See §§14, 18, 35, in 5 id., 2789, 2791, 2793. Many colonial statutes required individual arms-bearing for public-safety rea-sons—such as the 1770 Georgia law that “for the security and defence of this province from internal dangers and insurrections” required those men who qualified for militia duty individually “to carry fire arms” “to places of public worship.” 19 Colonial Records of the State of Georgia 137–139 (A. Candler ed. 1911 (pt. 2)) (emphasis added). That broad public-safety understanding was the connotation given to the North Carolina right by that State’s Supreme Court in 1843. See State v. Huntly, 3 Ired. 418, 422–423.

The 1780 Massachusetts Constitution presented another variation on the theme: “The people have a right to keep and to bear arms for the common defence. . . .” Pt. First, Art. XVII, in 3 Thorpe 1888, 1892. Once again, if one gives narrow meaning to the phrase “common defence” this can be thought to limit the right to the bearing of arms in a state-organized military force. But once again the State’s highest court thought otherwise. Writing forthe court in an 1825 libel case, Chief Justice Parker wrote:

“The liberty of the press was to be unrestrained, but he who used it was to be responsible in cases of its abuse; like the right to keep fire arms, which does not protect him who uses them for annoyance or destruction.” Common¬wealth v. Blanding, 20 Mass. 304, 313–314. The analogy makes no sense if firearms could not be used for any individual purpose at all. See also Kates, Handgun Prohibition and the Original Meaning of the Second Amendment, 82 Mich. L. Rev. 204, 244 (1983) (19th-century courts never read “common defence” to limit the use of weapons to militia service).

We therefore believe that the most likely reading of all four of these pre-Second Amendment state constitutional provisions is that they secured an individual right to bear arms for defensive purposes. Other States did not include rights to bear arms in their pre-1789 constitutions—although in Virginia a Second Amendment analogue was proposed (unsuccessfully) by Thomas Jefferson. (It read:“No freeman shall ever be debarred the use of arms .”18 1 The Papers of Thomas Jefferson 344 (J. Boyd ed. 1950)).

Between 1789 and 1820, nine States adopted Second Amendment analogues. Four of them—Kentucky, Ohio, Indiana, and Missouri—referred to the right of the people to “bear arms in defence of themselves and the State.” See n. 8, supra. Another three States—Mississippi, Connecticut, and Alabama—used the even more individualistic phrasing that each citizen has the “right to bear arms in defence of himself and the State.” See ibid. Finally, two States—Tennessee and Maine—used the “common defence” language of Massachusetts. See Tenn. Const., Art.

XI, §26 (1796), in 6 Thorpe 3414, 3424; Me. Const., Art. I, §16 (1819), in 3 id., at 1646, 1648. That of the nine state constitutional protections for the right to bear arms enacted immediately after 1789 at least seven unequivocally protected an individual citizen’s right to self-defense is strong evidence that that is how the founding generation conceived of the right. And with one possible exception that we discuss in Part II–D–2, 19th-century courts and commentators interpreted these state constitutional provisions to protect an individual right to use arms for self-defense. See n. 9, supra; Simpson v. State, 5 Yer. 356, 360 (Tenn. 1833).

The historical narrative that petitioners must endorse would thus treat the Federal Second Amendment as an odd outlier, protecting a right unknown in state constitutions or at English common law, based on little more than an overreading of the prefatory clause.



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AtheistCrusader Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-26-08 11:40 PM
Response to Reply #6
10. Washington State Constitution
"SECTION 24 RIGHT TO BEAR ARMS. The right of the individual citizen to bear arms in defense of himself, or the state, shall not be impaired, but nothing in this section shall be construed as authorizing individuals or corporations to organize, maintain or employ an armed body of men."

Seems pretty clear to me. The SCOTUS ruling on Heller seems 100% in line with my State's reading of the individual having a personal right to self defense with firearms.
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RaleighNCDUer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-27-08 11:59 AM
Response to Reply #10
12. And that has what to do with the price of tea in China?
Washington was granted statehood in 1889 - a full century after the constitution was written. Its constitution has less than no bearing on the what the framers of the US constitution wrote a hundred years earlier. The only state constitutions that can be applied to show the thinking of the framers of the constitution would be those of the first 13 states which made up the US at the time, and maybe those added to the US in the 20-30 years immediately following.
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Spoonman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-26-08 03:49 PM
Response to Reply #3
7. Please list your qualifications
on constitutional law so that we might "think" about caring what your interpretation of the 2nd means..... Stop!

Never mind we already have the experts opinion on that issue.

BY-BY!
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MyRV9 Donating Member (94 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-26-08 09:25 PM
Response to Reply #3
9. You're right.
The amendment says "the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed (period)".

The people = individuals, just like in the other amendments. Do you think the right to free speech is a collective right?

The people, individuals, have a right to keep and bear arms. It is silent as to the circumstances that might cause them to exercise that right. The amendment simply prohibits the government from infringing upon it.
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bossy22 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-27-08 12:00 AM
Response to Reply #3
11. they never mentioned anything about
TV in the first amendment- or wire taps
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HALO141 Donating Member (425 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-26-08 03:28 PM
Response to Reply #1
5. "APPEARING to be a big time gun grabber" ????
Sometimes things are just what they seem.
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SteveM Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-26-08 04:24 PM
Response to Original message
8. Pelosi using an old War on Drugs trick: "guns near schools."
Some years ago, the Supremes knocked down the federal penalty-enhancement laws, saying that the Interstate Commerce Clause, the rationale for penalty-enhancement, was a thin backbone upon which to jail someone for a long time.

http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,134119,00.html

The guy who argued what has been described as the most significant Supreme Court ruling (2001) "in the last decade" is an old buddy; rock-solid, blue-collar Pennsylvania-raised liberal (now in Texas).

Pelosi is still into a tried and failed model of expanding federal power with all its prohibitionist accretion.
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Longtooth Donating Member (303 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-29-08 01:29 PM
Response to Reply #8
13. Yes but the Heller decision referenced guns IN schools not NEAR schools
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