14,000 knife victims a year (UK)

[davepc]

Knife violence in Britain is far worse than official statistics suggest, with almost 14,000 people taken to hospital for injuries caused by knives and other sharp weapons last year.


According to the latest Department of Health statistics, an average of 38 victims of knife wounds are admitted to accident and emergency departments across the country every day.

An analysis of hospital admissions data for England and Wales by the IoS revealed that assaults and injuries from knives and sharp implements, together with sword and dagger injuries, resulted in 12,340 people being admitted last year – 446 of whom were no older than 14. This is an increase of 19 per cent on the 10,372 admissions five years ago. The latest figures from Northern Ireland and Scotland bring the total number of victims in Britain to 13,795 each year.

Dr Tunji Lasoye, A&E consultant at King's College Hospital, London said: "In a nutshell the numbers of stab victims coming into A&E have gone up. It used to be that we would see isolated cases at weekends, but now it is nearly every day of the week. And the age of the victims has gone down. We used to see people in their early 20s; now they are in their mid-teens. And 10 per cent of the victims we see now are girls, which wasn't the case four or five years ago."

The latest statistics from hospitals in England alone highlight an 88 per cent jump in the number of children suffering stab wounds – from 95 in 2002-03 to 179 in 2006-07. And among 16- to 18-year-olds, there has been a 75 per cent rise from 429 to 752.

...

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/14000-knife-victims-a-year-860857.html

[wtmusic]

1. According to the author, cutting yourself with a knife is "violence"

What are the stats on toe-stubbings?

:rofl:

[aspergris]

3. just as

somebody who shot himself would be listed here as a victim of "gun violence" or "suffered gunshot wounds" etc.

Or my favorite - when one teenage gangbanger shoots a 16 yr old hardened gangbanger thug and it is listed as another "child victim of gun violence"

[aspergris]

2. an 88% jump in 4 years

wow.

Can you imagine if gunshot wounds to children showed an 88% jump in 4 years? Gun confiscation extremists would have a field day with it.

England has had a pretty big jump in crime in general. Not just knife incidents.

[muriel_volestrangler]

4. As a matter of interest, we have the equivalent gunshot wound statistics

However, over the same period, the numbers of under-16s admitted to hospital with gunshot wounds has gone down from 253 to 181. A fall of 68%.*

So, 84 more children were admitted with stab injuries than five years earlier. But 72 fewer children were admitted with gunshot injuries.

If no distinction is made between knife and gun injuries, the headline might read "teen violence stable."
...
*UPDATE 13:00: Sorry - there is one typo to correct in this. The percentage fall in gunshot wounds should be 28% not 68%. The numbers, however, are correct.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/markeaston/2008/07/knives_guns_and_teens.html

[Spoonman]

5. The headline should read

"If gun bans worked, teen violence would have dropped"

I particularly like reply number 5 to the blog:

"At the heart of it, I suspect, bad parenting is to blame - and how does one solve a problem as pandemic as that?"


In part they are correct, but it is noteworthy to recognize they are not blaming the guns and knives! (That is rarely the case here!)

[Longtooth]

7. Interesting point there.

Violence is the same no matter what laws are used. Hell, outlaw all weapons making the citizens use plastic eating utensils and I bet the bad element will sharpen sticks or improvise weapons from glass, steel cans. . . .oh wait a sec, that's already being done in the prisons.

I'm sorry, please continue.

[muriel_volestrangler]

8. Then again, there's the relative danger of gunshots and stab wounds

For example, I found these statistics when looking for the equivalent US figures:

In 1992, gunshots killed 37,776 Americans; cut/stab wounds killed 4095. Another 134,000 gunshot survivors and 3,100,000 cut/stab wound survivors received medical treatment.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9183471

Gunshots seem far more dangerous, in terms of the likelihood of death.

[tburnsten]

9. Knives are at least as deadly as guns

the only real advantage that a gun holds over a knife is that the user does not need to be in hugging distance to use it. Knives generally severe far more blood vessels than a service-caliber pistol bullet will, which makes it more likely that the victim will die. Aside from the noise, handguns are not particularly effective killing machines, since about 80% of people shot with a handgun survive.

[muriel_volestrangler]

11. 28% of gun victims died; 0.13% of cut/stab victims died

That was the point of giving some figures. So I really can't accept your claim that knives are at least at deadly as guns.

[tburnsten]

14. Does that cover...

the fact that in general, when shooting someone you have committed to killing them, whereas many times people cut others without ever intending to kill them? I dunno, just something to chew on. And does that include all the knife accidents, because that would really skew things.

[muriel_volestrangler]

18. The British figures about the increase and decrease in gun and knife wounds

don't specify a difference with regard to intent to kill or not, either. With the huge disparity in the fatality rates, you'll have to come up with something pretty spectaular to even begin to back up your claim that knife wounds are more dangerous.

[iverglas]

25. doncha just love a good percentage?

Let's look at that one again.

The latest statistics from hospitals in England alone highlight an 88 per cent jump in the number of children suffering stab wounds – from 95 in 2002-03 to 179 in 2006-07. And among 16- to 18-year-olds, there has been a 75 per cent rise from 429 to 752.

Good lord. A population of 60 million, and an increase of 84. Get an umbrella, the sky is falling. One child under the age of 16 was admitted to hospital with a stab wound every 2 days.



England has had a pretty big jump in crime in general. Not just knife incidents.

Really?

Got some facts to back up that false statement?

[spin]

6. Description of police crack down on knives...

On Wednesday November 3, I was driving along the Embankment in London when a policeman flagged me down. It was 11.30 in the morning, and I was in reasonable time for a meeting with lawyers due to start at midday.

The constable was accompanied by another policeman and a group of three men in what looked a little like traffic wardens' uniforms. These, I later discovered, were Mr Blunkett's new militia, the police community support officers (PCSOs). Their task, according to Sir John Stevens, is to "perform the vital role of security patrols in central London, deterring criminals and providing intelligence to police officers".

"We are conducting random stop and search under current anti-terrorist legislation," began the constable, addressing me through my open side window. "Would you mind if we searched your vehicle? We're training these new community support officers."



Although a little worried about being late for my meeting, I agreed to the search. I unlocked the doors and they went through my car and its contents: my overnight bag, my washbag and glove box. Next, they gestured towards my briefcase. As I lifted the lid I pointed out to them a Victorinox Swiss multi-tool, contained in a small webbing case, and a small collapsible baton, contained in another piece of webbing.

It is perfectly legal to buy both of these items. The penknife I carry because I find it useful for many small everyday tasks - cutting through packaging, opening bottles. The baton I bought to keep at home for security reasons. I live in a rural part of Suffolk that, although relatively crime-free, is policed very sparsely. I often hear people outside the house at night and I feel more comfortable with the baton inside the front door. A week or so before, I had discovered my young daughters playing with it and had locked it in my briefcase for safekeeping.

The community support officers reacted immediately. They behaved as if they had never seen a penknife before, pulling out the bottle-opener, the corkscrew, the thing that gets stones out of horses' hooves. "This device has a locking blade," said the constable. My goodwill towards the police began to give way to alarm. I reached for my mobile to call the lawyers and explain that I was going to be late but the constable stopped me. "Turn that phone off," he said. "You're about to be arrested for possessing offensive weapons and carrying a bladed instrument in public. You'll be allowed one call when we get you to Charing Cross police station."
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/opinion/main.jhtml?xml=/opinion/2004/11/28/do2802.xml


We worry about guns the Brits worry about knives.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/2258205/Cherie-Blair-A-call-to-action-on-knife-crime.html

edited for error in title

[iverglas]

26. some interesting commentary from an interesting source

http://www.policecommunitysupportofficer.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=784

In a nutshell: he was in illegal possession of both weapons. Full stop.

The knife wasn't a "penknife", it was a *locking* knife. The baton was apparently legal for possession in the home, not outside it, and is illegal for sale.

As one member of that site said:

he had no escuse for the knife or the batton and was dealt with correctly.

as was siad before , he would be praising the police if it was someone else caught in that area with the same ... but as it was some chap wearing a suit with a double barrel name then its all wrong. :eyes:

[tburnsten]

27. It is ridiculous that sticks are now illegal in the UK.

That is what a baton amounts to, a stick. And it is apparently illegal to possess sticks outside the home. What does it matter if the knife locks anyway? Are safety features now up for banning?

[iverglas]

29. if only what you said were true

The baton in question was a FOLDING baton, and THAT is why it is illegal. It is a readily CONCEALABLE weapon.

You're welcome.

[tburnsten]

33. If only sticks and heavy objects

couldn't be concealed just as readily. And I believe the word you are looking for is TELESCOPING, and they aren't that concealable unless you are wearing some pretty hefty clothing.






To give a scale, the shortest of those batons is sixteen inches fully extended. They are long and oddly shaped, so probably don't carry or conceal very well.

And why are blunt objects illegal in England anyway?

[iverglas]

38. gosh, I just must be missing something

the shortest of those batons is sixteen inches fully extended

Mm hmmmm. So when fully un-extended, that would make it, oh, a little under six inches long?

Huh. The front pockets in the pair of raggy baggy cotton pants I have on at the moment appear to be about eight inches deep ...


They are long and oddly shaped, so probably don't carry or conceal very well.

Yes, that's why they're made to telescope. So that people will carry them fully extended. Or so seems to be your point.

[tburnsten]

40. How often have you carried

a heavy six inch long tube in your front pocket? Sure you can find pants which you may be able to fit a closed baton into, but fitting it into your pocket is not equal to concealing it. big objects like the batons and pistols don't carry in pockets well because they have a tendency to swing freely and be very noticeable and uncomfortable, and that doesn't jive with the idea that they are banned because they are C-O-N-C-E-A-L-A-B-L-E, sure it is concealable if it is carried in a bag off-body, but either way, what is so inherently dangerous about a telescoping baton anyway? Why is it worse than any other blunt object?

UK laws don't seem to be heavily grounded in reality.

[iverglas]

41. good lord

Be careful your reach doesn't exceed your fully extended length. I think you're at risk of snapping a tendon, there. Yeeeeeeesh. Pitiful.

[tburnsten]

42. Childish jokes, how predictable. N/T

[spin]

48. The local police officer who rooms with us...

suggested I carry an ASP baton as a defense against dogs. http://www.asp-net.com/batons.html

I live in a small Florida town with a dog catcher who doesn't catch dogs. I used to walk my daughters Boston Terrier and would occasionally encounter a stray aggressive dog. My daughters small Boston who has tremendous courage and little common sense would turn psycho when another dog approached. The encounters we had were resolved peacefully, but I was worried that someday she would run into a dog that would attack and injure her (or me).

But a couple of months ago, a lady down the street from us let her Dachshund out in her yard in the morning to do his business. A stray Rottweiler attacked him. The lady was able to recuse her dog by beating the Rotty off. She was able to grab her dog and get him inside her house but the Rottweiler attempted to break her door down. The poor Dachshund spent 3 weeks at the vet recovering and had to be castrated because of damage to his testicles. The stray dog was never caught.

My daughter called the local police chief and informed him that if she was walking her dog and was attacked she would shoot the bad dog and call him to pick the dead animal up. The police chief had no problem with this.

The idea of firing a weapon in a town to avert a dog attack struck me as something to do only as a last resort. So I asked the police officer for his advise. His first choice was the ASP baton followed by Sabre Red OC spray. He also suggested carrying a firearm and using it if necessary. Both my daughter and myself have concealed carry permits.

The ASP was a good idea but it's awkward to carry or conceal. I chose to carry the OC spray, although the police officer said it might be ineffective against a pit bull (a common dog in the area we live). I also carried a small .357 mag revolver for last resort.

Recently we decided to fence in our yard and avoid the stray dog problem entirely. While this has proven an effective solution to the problem, I lost the excuse to go for walks with her dog. Consequently, I've gained some weight.

[tburnsten]

50. Defense tools are comforting, not comfortable

One point though, unless you are improbably short and/or the dog is improbably tall, I can't see how firing downwards at one rushing you would be all that dangerous, even in town. The earth is generally a pretty superb bullet trap, more so if the bullet has expanded going through an aggressive dog.

Our police seem to have a very similiar attitude towards concealed carry, they don't ladel out any of the harrassment I have heard people from less friendly states get when you fill out a permit application. I have heard that NY countieshave a tendency to converse with you while you fill out your paperwork, then deny you because it sounds like you might want a permit for defense. Ridiculous.

I wouldn't trust OC spray to work against a dog, animals in general have a far greater pain threshold than humans and I can't imagine pepper spray working very well.

[spin]

52. My biggest problem with using a gun....

to defend against a dog attack was the irrational attitude people have toward shooting animals. If you shoot a human in self defense it often seems to get you into less trouble than if you shoot a dog.

I have a fondness for dogs and when I encounter a loose aggressive one, I tend to blame the owner. My daughter and I were concerned when we heard of the rottweiler attack on the daschund because at that time of the morning children were waiting for school buses. We drove around the neighborhood searching for the dog to no avail.

I did some research into OC spray used against dogs. Some sources stated it would work but others had the same opinion you did. The ASP baton probably was the better choice. If I go back to walking dogs again, I may purchase one and hang it on my belt. A solid thump with the ASP should discourage any dog and it should enable you to maintain a safe distance.

[tburnsten]

53. If you go that route, your options open up a bit

For instance, there are the stun batons, which are basically nightsticks with stunguns built into the sides of them, a very aggressive, very large dog may be dissuaded more emphatically by the little zap they put out than by the actual impact. ASP batons are most likely higher quality and more durable though.

I too love dogs, but I can't stand dogs that have been poorly raised and socialized improperly. I understand they are pack animals and behave as such, but I also have little to no sympathy for an animal that is basically wild, like many overaggressive dogs are. My moms dog is about the best little fella I've ever seen, my "friends" dog is a big wiry one who acts basically feral much of the time. Huge difference, and I see no reason to treat an anti-social dog as anything but an overgrown rabid coyote.

[spin]

56. I hadn't considered a stun baton...

thanks for the input.

My son in law has raised rottweilers and pit bulls, all which have been gentle and well trained animals. Unfortunately his rottweiler died of old age and the pit bull was stolen. If we decide to move out of the small town we live in and find a home in a more remote rural area, he plans to get another pit bull puppy.

My daughter is considering breeding our male Boston terrier with a small black and white pit bull that belongs to one of her good friends. The mix might produce some good dogs.

[spin]

34. OH MY GOD!!! A locking blade...

I have one in my pocket right now, A Spydrco Endura with a fully serrated blade. http://www.newgraham.com/detail.aspx?ID=7655

I love living in the United States. Since I have a concealed weapons permit and live in Florida, I can carry a "switch blade" or auto knife if I want. I see little use for auto knives and don't own one but both my son in law and daughter carry them.
Like this one: http://www.arizonacustomknives.com/products/?id=6088

A knife is a tool to me. I use a knife many times a day for simple tasks and food prep. I'm not trained in knife fighting, so I don't view it as a weapon that I would use. I carry a firearm for that purpose.

What are the knife laws like in Canada?

[iverglas]

39. Criminal Code of Canada, s. 84

http://www.iijcan.org/ca/sta/c-46/sec84.html

“prohibited weapon” means

(a) a knife that has a blade that opens automatically by gravity or centrifugal force or by hand pressure applied to a button, spring or other device in or attached to the handle of the knife, or

(b) any weapon, other than a firearm, that is prescribed to be a prohibited weapon;

Regulations Prescribing Certain Firearms and other Weapons, Components and Parts of Weapons, Accessories, Cartridge Magazines, Ammunition and Projectiles as Prohibited or Restricted
SOR/98-462

http://www.canlii.org/ca/regu/sor98-462/whole.html

Former Prohibited Weapons Order, No. 4

8. The device known as the “Constant Companion”, being a belt containing a blade capable of being withdrawn from the belt, with the buckle of the belt forming a handle for the blade, and any similar device.

9. Any knife commonly known as a “push-dagger” that is designed in such a fashion that the handle is placed perpendicular to the main cutting edge of the blade and any other similar device other than the aboriginal “ulu” knife.

10. Any device having a length of less than 30 cm and resembling an innocuous object but designed to conceal a knife or blade, including the device commonly known as the “knife-comb”, being a comb with the handle of the comb forming a handle for the knife, and any similar device.

html fixed

[spin]

43. Sounds reasonable enough ...

Auto knifes and gravity knives are prohibited. Both are interesting to handle and play with, but I've never been all that impressed with their value as a tool or as a weapon. Very easy to cut yourself with one if you don't use caution.

Push daggers might make good weapons but I can't see any other practical uses. Belt buckle knives and other knives concealed in "innocuous" objects remind me of toys for boys.

Now the knife-comb might be useful if I didn't shave my head.

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

45. Have to disagree, the assisted opening kershaws are very nice.

The Kershaw Blur is an opening assisted knife blade is about 3.75 inches it is as fast to open as any spring loaded knife I have ever seen. I have the one with the blade that is half serrated, it is immensely useful.

David

[spin]

47. I don't believe Canadian laws restrict the Kershsaw...

assisted opening knifes.

The Canadian Criminal Code states exactly this:

In sec. (84)(1)(b) "any knife that has a blade that opens automatically by gravity or centrifugal force, or by hand pressure applied to a button, spring or other device attached to the handle of the knife".

There are no other knife banning laws in Canada.

SPRING ASSIST ARE NOT GRAVITY OR CENTRIFUGAL FORCE, AND HAVE NO BUTTON ON THE HANDLE, WHICH MAKES THEM PERFECTLY LEGAL TO OWN, USE, AND CARRY.
http://www.assistedknife.com/index.cfm/fa/pages.main/pageID/5

I've handled several assisted opening knives and found them very fast and reliable. I still prefer my Benchmade 710 axis lock folders or my Spyderco Endura folder. With a little practice the Benchmade with the thumb stud on the blade or the Spyderco with the thumb hole on the blade open very fast.

I'm not real fond of a combination blade. The Spyderco Endura folder I carry is fully serrated and is very handy for tough cutting jobs. I also carry a fixed blade knife with a plain edge which is great for food prep and finer work. I hesitate to use a folder for food prep as food may find its way back into the mechanism or the handle and cause bacteria problems. Fixed blades are much easier to clean.

The two knives that I have on me right now are:

Spyderco Endura: http://www.newgraham.com/detail.aspx?ID=7655

RC-3 (Rat 3} made by RAT Cutlery Co. http://www.newgraham.com/detail.aspx?ID=45275 http://www.ratcutlery.com/rc-3.htm

From what iverglas posted and what I've found on the internet, Canadian knife laws are reasonable and fairly uncomplicated. Knife laws vary considerably from state to state in the U.S. Most police officers I've talked to are not real familiar with them and frown on folders with blade longer than 4".

In Florida, a concealed weapons permit allows you to carry concealed just about any knife you want with some exceptions like a ballistic knife.
http://www.simplysarasota.com/knifecollector/FloridaKnifeLaws.html

Disclaimer: I am not an attorney nor do I play one on TV. The information posted above is merely my opinion based on my experience and my discussions with local law enforcement and my research on the internet.

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

49. You're probably right.

The combination blade comes in handy in my line of work. Laws in some states allow firefighters and police to carry knives that can be opened with one hand including spring loaded knives. I've never had a problem while carrying a knife. I'll be sure to not carry one in England though. I'll just find myself a big walking stick (maybe an axe handle) and carry it.

David

[iverglas]

51. I should probably say

It may not be quite as uncomplicated as it looks.

The purpose for which a knife (or anything else) is carried comes into the equation.

http://www.canlii.org/ca/sta/c-46/sec90.html

Criminal Code
PART III: FIREARMS AND OTHER WEAPONS
Possession Offences
Carrying concealed weapon

90. (1) Every person commits an offence who carries a weapon, a prohibited device or any prohibited ammunition concealed, unless the person is authorized under the Firearms Act to carry it concealed.

Punishment

(2) Every person who commits an offence under subsection (1)

(a) is guilty of an indictable offence and liable to imprisonment for a term not exceeding five years; or

(b) is guilty of an offence punishable on summary conviction.


Criminal Code
INTERPRETATION
Definitions

2. In this Act,
“weapon” means any thing used, designed to be used or intended for use

(a) in causing death or injury to any person, or

(b) for the purpose of threatening or intimidating any person

and, without restricting the generality of the foregoing, includes a firearm;

[spin]

54. The discretion of the police officer...

is probably the deciding factor. In a rural area for example, a short fixed blade knife carried openly may not be a concern where carrying one in an urban environment might lead to some intense questioning.

Similar to Florida.

[iverglas]

55. well, only at the outset

The charge still has to be proved beyond a reasonble doubt and all. ;)

Yes, at all stages, circumstances will be important factors. A reasonable explanation will create the reasonable doubt that will preclude conviction.

[jody]

10. 'Let burglars off with caution', police told by UK Home Office

'Let burglars off with caution', police told

Burglars will be allowed to escape without punishment under new instructions sent to all police forces. Police have been told they can let them off the threat of a court appearance and instead allow them to go with a caution.

The same leniency will be shown to criminals responsible for more than 60 other different offences, ranging from arson through vandalism to sex with underage girls.

New rules sent to police chiefs by the Home Office set out how seriously various crimes should be regarded, and when offenders who admit to them should be sent home with a caution.

A caution counts as a criminal record but means the offender does not face a court appearance which would be likely to end in a fine, a community punishment or jail.

When is a crime not a crime?

When it's committed in the UK

[muriel_volestrangler]

12. But that's the Daily Mail, and so it means nothing

If a reliable newspaper has said that, then it's worth thinking about. The Mail lies, constantly.

[jody]

13. Mail Lie “Obama blames Washington for America's Economic woes and links McCain to President Bush”?

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/worldnews/article-1032878/Obama-blames-Washington-Americas-Economic-woes-links-McCain-President-Bush.html

[muriel_volestrangler]

16. Could be - find the story somewhere else, and we'll find out

Really, the Mail is less trustworthy than, say, Fox News. It's always better to get your stories and links elsewhere; and if the story doesn't exist elsewhere, then suspect it's not true. It's like saying "I read on the internet that ..."

Here's a recent thread, all about the reliability of the Mail: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=389&topic_id=3556922

[jody]

17. Absent your proof refuting the Mail article, I'll choose to believe it. That's reasonable because

the article on Obama was factual.

[muriel_volestrangler]

19. I have some money from Nigeria I'd like to send you

Give me you bank details and password, and I'll take care of it all, honestly.

[jody]

20. I asked you to provide a credible source refuting the cited article. Please put up or shut up. n/t

[apocalypsehow]

21. Interesting sig line you're a sporting there, pardner. Did you help Scalia craft his opinion?

Or would that be more precisely accurate along the lines of something like this: "We the people voted for Ronald Reagan, George Bush I & II so they could appoint justices like Kennedy, Thomas, Roberts, Alito & and the hero of the hour, Nino Scalia! :applause:"

Seriously, I'd be interested in hearing your answer, as long as it doesn't come swaddled in linen-yards of obfuscation and dishonesty. How about it? :shrug:

[jody]

24. The only part of your post deserving a reply is re my sig line. DUers have discussed the 2nd since

2001.

DU limited discussion of RKBA to a single-issue forum now called "Guns" and derisively referred to as gungeon.

The 2nd is a divisive, polarizing issue and pro-RKBA DUers rarely survived very long before they were tomb-stoned.

Poll after poll have been conducted among DUers and consistently 60 to 70 percent of respondents support an individual RKBA as stated in the Democratic Party platform.

SCOTUS in both the majority and dissenting statements of Heller recognize the individual right to keep and bear arms for self-defense that existed before the Constitution and BOR were ratified.

Frequently, anti-RKBA DUers have posted on threads in the Guns forum, questions about whether we pro-RKBA supporters would defend all rights just as aggressively and fervently as we defended RKBA.

For me the answer is "YES"!

In my opinion, all our rights are threatened by governments that grow more powerful each year like vampires draining the life-blood from their victims. What remains are victims whose only purpose is to feed the vampire.

Now that we pro-RKBA types on behalf of We the People have won a major victory in Heller, I turn my attention to another single right that is also being egregiously abused by government, the Fourth Amendment'

Amendment IV
The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.

I changed my sig line on 7 July 08 to show my commitment to all rights and specifically the Fourth Amendment.

Why don't you join me in fighting for the Fourth Amendment?

[apocalypsehow]

35. Looks like I once again allowed the triumph of hope over experience cloud my judgment when I said:

"...as long as it doesn't come swaddled in linen-yards of obfuscation and dishonesty. How about it?"

Because that's precisely what that 311 words of yours above consists of as any kind of "reply" to anything I asked you - a puffy gauze of obfuscation and dishonesty.

:thumbsdown:

[jody]

36. Have a good day and good bye. n/t

[apocalypsehow]

37. Your concession is noted and graciously accepted. n/t.

:thumbsup:

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

46. It is nice to see you back after the mourning period.

I would have hoped you would have come up with some original stuff while you were away.

David

[apocalypsehow]

57. Well, thanks for the welcome back. I think. But to be honest

I wasn't "away" because I was mourning the Heller decision; we had a very serious medical scare in my immediate family, and posting scintillating commentary on the internet was about the last thing on my mind for a while (thanks to all you folks who sent me PM's inquiring about my absence :thumbsup:).

In any event, the Heller decision went about like I thought it would, so I wasn't all that surprised or even disappointed. What actually disappointed me was the dissent, which was intellectually dishonest and factually weak. I'm no lawyer, but I feel I could have written a much better one in reply to Scalia, et al. Or maybe not: fools for clients, and all that. But it is my belief that the dissent was quite weak, and could have used some help.

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

58. Sorry to hear that.

I hope everyone is okay now. Anyhow nice to have you back? It was kind of one sided there for a while. It's no fun trying to argue with people you agree with.

David

[SteveM]

32. You got an answer. Any response? (nt)

[DrCory]

44. What Is Your Opinion...

...of Justice Kennedy's position in Boumediene v. Bush?

[muriel_volestrangler]

22. And I'm pointing out your 'cite' is useless

because it has no credibility to begin with. People don't write a refutation of everything that appears in the Mail - it would take too long. It's like refuting the National Enquirer.

[jody]

23. I'm disappointed you are unable to defend your position. In debates that means you lose. n/t

[iverglas]

28. another gem from jody's world

In the real world, s/he who makes a claim gets to substantiate it.

[radioburning]

15. In the big picture it only means nothing if it's pro-gun...n/t

[iverglas]

30. Cherie Blair: A call to action on knife crime

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/2258205/Cherie-Blair-A-call-to-action-on-knife-crime.html
(Juyl 6, 2008)

I wouldn't ordinarily cite the Telegraph, but this was handy and seems relatively straightforward.

Oh, that's because it consists entirely of a reproduction of a statement by Cherie Blair.

Cherie Blair QC, chair of the Street Weapons Commission, on the truth about gang violence and what can be done to bring it under control.

... Our report, published yesterday, represents a call to action. I believe if we don’t act - now - then the implications are serious for our future individual safety, community wellbeing and our society. Tackling gun and knife crime must be an urgent national priority for everyone from the Government downwards. It needs coordinated and strategic leadership from the centre, effective enforcement to help reduce the attraction of knife and gang culture and effective intervention and youth services on the ground to divert those young people most at risk.

It is why in our report we call on the Government to establish a Violence Reduction Unit, at the heart of Whitehall. It would be a centre of expertise to reduce violent crime and behaviour by working with partner agencies to seek to achieve long-term social change.

We saw excellent work being done by a number of police forces, and the Commission were particularly impressed by the Violence Reduction Unit in Glasgow, a city which has been confronting the problems of knife violence for a long time.

This unit, under bold leadership, has been developing innovative strategies for reducing violence through both enforcement and prevention. This matches my own view that there is no sharp distinction between prevention and enforcement. Enforcement has a crucial preventative role in itself that needs to be acknowledged. All ways of dealing with knife and gun crime have an important role to play and there is more to do through all means of tackling the problem - diversion, support and sanction. ...

[iverglas]

31. Street Weapons Commission

http://www.channel4.com/news/microsites/S/street_weapons_commission/index.html

Not official as I'd assumed -- an initiative of Channel 4. Various links at that link.