Rally for gun rights in the Loop (Chicago, IL)

[davepc]

Proponents of gun rights gathered in the Loop Friday to push legislation legalizing concealed weapons in Illinois. Among the speakers at the rally was a Texas state representative whose parents were among 23 people gunned down at Luby's cafeteria in 1991.

Recent rallies at the Thompson Center have been demands for gun control laws following fatal shootings of Chicago children. Thursday, the plaza was full again, but the message was from those demanding the right to bear arms.

In a show of support for responsible gun ownership, about 200 chose the plaza of the Thompson Center for what they called a Second Amendment freedom rally. The rally comes after a recent decision by the Supreme Court Allowing handguns in Washington D.C.

"With the U.S. Supreme Court decision we are celebrating here today, I see those days of fear and helplessness coming to an end," said Valinda Rowe, IllinoisCarry.com.

...

http://abclocal.go.com/wls/story?section=news/local&id=6259726

[jody]

1. Looks like D.C. residents must wait to purchase firearms given the shortage of FFL dealers.

D.C. still feeling a little gun-shy

The FFLs are held by Arena Stage, The Shakespeare Theater Company, Josh Sugarman of the Violence Policy Center, The U.S. Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms, K S Supply and Cs Exchange Ltd.

* * * * * * * * * * * *

So Sykes will be a potential handgun owner's only option, until gun stores begin to open in the District; and that could be a while. According to a spokesperson for the ATF, there are no pending applications for new FFLs.

The ATF is required by law to process applications within 60 days, but any gun store would have to be approved by the Chief of Police and meet all local zoning ordinances.

* * * * * * * * * * * *

While city officials have said they want to keep D.C.'s gun laws as tough as the courts will allow, they say they have every intention of allowing gun stores to open.

[SteveM]

2. Hmm, another way to keep the arts alive -- sell guns. As for D.C....

The Assistant Coordinator for the Department of Agencies in conjunction with the Division of Boards and the Ministry of Commissions will peer over his/her glasses, shake those jowls and point to an error, and say: "Well, now, boy, you didn't fill this out right" ...bends over to loose a stream of tobacco juice... "'Have to start the process over again, hear?"

[Tejas]

3. background

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f12XrQ6H0Og

Information for those that might not be familiar with Dr. Hupp, the speaker from Texas.

[MicaelS]

9. Slightly better quality over here

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-4069761537893819675&q=Suzanna+Hupp&ei=qsR8SOqYAo-E4gKRyYGTCw&hl=en

[Herman74]

4. Has this Bushevik been Invited to speak?

"Machine Gun" Sammy Alito been just so very IMPORTANT in the fight to ensure that the good ol' USA remains ON TOP when it comes to murder rates in the industrialized world!!!

Or how about George W. Bush and Dick Cheney themselves? Have they been invited to speak? After all, like good conservatives everywhere, they don't value human life much, BUT THEY DO ABSOLUTELY LOVE GUNS!!!

[DonP]

5. Sorry to break the news to you, but so do a lot of good liberal Democrats.

"Have they been invited to speak? After all, like good conservatives everywhere, they don't value human life much, BUT THEY DO ABSOLUTELY LOVE GUNS!!!"

40 states now have "shall issue" concealed carry laws and 8 others have the more corrupt "may issue" system for concealed carry. Do you really think that all 48 of those states are run by the Republicans?

I live in one of the only two states that refuses to allow it's law abiding citizens the right to defend themselves and we have one of the highest murder rates in the country each year in Chicago. So tell me again how effective gun bans and gun control are at stopping violence and show us a single study that shows any kind of relationship between gun laws and reduced crime rates?

Don't be ignorant and fall for the idea that somehow extensive gun control is a long standing Democrat principle. It ain't even close.

[Herman74]

6. Well, since the time that....

JFK was gunned down, and then Martin Luther King, Jr, and then Bobby Kennedy, I would say that at a minimum gun control has been on the minds of a good many Democrats, at least those Democrats who value human life.

Oh, and it's on Obama's mind too. From Yahoo News --> "Obama linked to gun control efforts."

http://news.yahoo.com/s/politico/20080419/pl_politico/9722 And do check out this too, regarding Barack: http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/630645/barak_obamas_gun_control_positions.html?cat=75

Standing way far apart from Obama are the Republicans standing here:



You want to compare bans, do you? Don't compare bans where all citizens have to do to bypass the ban is take a subway to some other nearby location to easily get a gun (e.g., Washington, DC). That's no ban at all!!! Compare murder rates where guns are exceedingly rare throughout (e.g., Japan) to those where they're found everywhere (U.S. of A.). So now, Don, what country has the significantly higher murder rate, the USA or Japan???

You want to understand how gun control can reduce crime rates? Fine. I'll make it as simple for you as I can. If no one has a gun, no one gets robbed by a gun, and no one gets murdered by a gun. Simple enough?

Noticed that you seem to be a firm believer in this "concealed carry" stuff. Well then, who draws his gun first, the criminal with foreknowledge that a crime is going to be committed, or the law-abiding concealed-carry guy? And the gun's really not doing much good if one's hands are reaching for the sky (or a bullet is in one's back), all the while the gun is still concealed, right, Don?

Now people are, of course, perfectly free to stand with Dick Cheney and the NRA. This is something I would never do, but hey, that's just how I am, being brought up as a liberal. As for me, I'll take a route that let's say is a tad more progressive. Like gun-control Western Europe, with it's lower murder rates, or super-gun-control, Japan, with its miniscule murder rates.

[DonP]

7. Yeah, right

"I'll make it as simple for you as I can. If no one has a gun, no one gets robbed by a gun, and no one gets murdered by a gun. Simple enough? "

Tell me more about the imaginary fuzzy pink happy cloud you live on where you can magically make guns go away? Let us know how you intend to work that magic with over 300 million guns already in the US. Happy thoughts? I'm sure you have a great plan to get the Chicago gang members to hand their guns over first too.

The CDC did a detailed review of the last 20 plus years of gun control laws and their impact on crime. They were unable to come up with any direct or supportable indirect impact of any gun control measures on the crime rate. After all this time you'd think they could point to at least one shining example of a success, huh?

I'm sure your local paper is full of articles about the concealed carry crowd being gunned down by criminals, right? Why not show us a few of them, you have 48 states to look them up. I'm sure you must have a few in your own hometown. Didn't think so. It doesn't work that way anywhere it has been put in place. But I'll put your misunderstandings down to abysmal ignorance of the details and facts of concealed carry.

Other countries? Well Japan has a suicide rate more than twice the per capita rate of the US and very few of the civil rights protections we enjoy. No Habeas Corpus, no right to an attorney ... until the government says you may need one. You'll excuse me if I don't like the idea of picking and choosing examples from countries that have a aggressively homogenous population and have been conditioned since birth to obey authority. You may be willing to trade off the 2nd amendment for imaginary peace and safety by giving up more of your civil liberties, but a lot of us don't really like that trade off.

As far as Obama's stand on guns, the last time I heard him onthe issue he said he fully supported the SCOTUS decision in Heller and that he believes that the 2nd amendment is an individual right. You got a problem with that?

As for the party, last time I looked my Democrat party platform fully supported the 2nd amendment, how about yours?

Oh, FWIW, if you have to play the "Friend of evil Dick Cheney and the evil NRA card" you've already lost the debate Herman. You're about the 400th unimaginative poster to use the same trite picture of Cheney and the NRA. I suppose you want the Democrats they funded in the last elections to give their donations back too.

Or are you just another one of those pompous, self-appointed party spokepersons we get down here from time to time to tell us what "real" Democrats have to believe?

[Herman74]

10. Gun control, here, there, everywhere

"The CDC did a detailed review of the last 20 plus years of gun control laws and their impact on crime. They were unable to come up with any direct or supportable indirect impact of any gun control measures on the crime rate. After all this time you'd think they could point to at least one shining example of a success, huh?" -- DonP

Well, not really. Given how easy it is to transfer a gun from one jurisdiction to another, whether or not the gun is allowed in the second jurisdiction, gun control in this country will remain mostly (though not completely) ineffective.

“I'm sure your local paper is full of articles about the concealed carry crowd being gunned down by criminals, right? Why not show us a few of them, you have 48 states to look them up.” – Don P

You want to know what my local paper has been reporting? Well, this was just in the news: “James Buckner lived hard and paid the price, his brother said. The Harrisburg man, whose lifestyle bounced him from jail to state prison, then to federal prison after conviction on firearms charges, was shot to death Sunday during what police described as a "gunbattle" at a South Allison Hill home.” http://www.pennlive.com/news/patriotnews/index.ssf?/base/news/121608693530250.xml&coll=1 The “gun battle” didn’t seem really to help Mr. Buckner, now did it, DonP??? And what would you say the ratio is between newspaper stories on homicides caused by guns to those wherein the headline reads, “Citizen pulls concealed weapon and thwarts robbery!!!” I never seem to come across these latter type of stories. What would you say the ratio is, 50 to one??? 100 to one????

“we have one of the highest murder rates in the country’ – DonP. Would you have us believe that knives were used in most of those murders, Don???? WELL????

More importantly, your assertion is complete unadulterated (expletive-deleted). Off the top of my head, New Orleans (in gun-happy Lousiana), Philly, and Baltimore have higher murder rates

From USA Today, December 29, 2007: “Chicago is on track to have the lowest homicide toll since 1965, when police reported 395 killings. The city had logged 435 slayings through Dec. 26. In the early part of the decade, police often reported more than 600 a year”.

“Chicago officials credit the improvement to their tough stance on gangs, guns and drugs.”

Let’s see now. 1965 was LONG BEFORE the Mayor-Daley-gun-control-laws were first enacted, right??? Great that Chicago is returning to near that level, right Don?

Wikipedia has a list of cities by murder rate for 2006. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_cities_by_crime_rate Chicago checks in at number 20. Both Miami (in gun-happy, conceal-happy Florida) and Houston (in gun-happy Texas) rank above Chicago.

“Well Japan has a suicide rate more than twice the per capita rate of the US and very few of the civil rights protections we enjoy. No Habeas Corpus, no right to an attorney ... until the government says you may need one. You'll excuse me if I don't like the idea of picking and choosing examples from countries that have a aggressively homogenous population and have been conditioned since birth to obey authority.” -- DonP

A little irrelevant Japan-bashing to get the subject off of locales where gun-bans have been effective, just to make things spicy, huh? Well, two can play that game. Which country has a longer life-expectancy, Japan or the U.S.? Which has lower crime rates? “Aggressively homogeneous population,” you mention – don’t make me laugh. If you want to talk about “aggression,” which country illegally invaded Iraq, Japan or the U.S.????

“You may be willing to trade off the 2nd amendment for imaginary peace and safety by giving up more of your civil liberties, but a lot of us don't really like that trade off.” – DonP

Well now, DonP, Australia, Germany, Denmark, France, (etc., etc.) don’t quite have a beloved, sacrosanct “2nd Amendment.” How is it that the Australians, the Germans, the Danes, and the French can get by without it, but you can’t??? I’m really curious, do let me know.

“As for the party, last time I looked my Democrat party platform fully supported the 2nd amendment, how about yours?” – DonP
Last I heard, the Republican Party Platform loved its interpretation of the 2nd Amendment, and it didn’t give a damn about ten Amish schoolgirls being shot in the back of the head by a crazed gunman (those girls should never have left home without concealed weapons permits and without packin’ heat, right Don?). This will undoubtedly shock you, DonP, but I do give a damn, since I’m a progressive, but how about you? And is the way Dick Cheney and the Republicans feel about the 2nd Amendment any different from your feeling about this amendment? Any different at all?

“You're about the 400th unimaginative poster to use the same trite picture of Cheney and the NRA.” – DonP

400, huh? Not bad. In any case, I wouldn’t quite call the photograph trite. The more the faces of the gun nuts get rubbed into the carnage caused by guns, the greater the chance something shall get done. What say you, DonP?

[Real_Talk]

12. I can make you famous

Why do all the Antis think that every criminal is Billie the Kid while every armed citizen will turn into Barney Fife in a fight? Most criminals are not evil geniuses who are also gun savants. You may have seen too many action movies.


and on another note

Did you really just list a story about a dead crook as an argument for gun control? That is weak. This guy lived the fast life and paid for it. Life is tough sometimes.

[hughee99]

13. So the reason gun control doesn't work is that it's not being done nationally?

"Well, not really. Given how easy it is to transfer a gun from one jurisdiction to another, whether or not the gun is allowed in the second jurisdiction, gun control in this country will remain mostly (though not completely) ineffective."

[Tejas]

8. I like simple

"You want to understand how gun control can reduce crime rates? Fine. I'll make it as simple for you as I can. If no one has a gun, no one gets robbed by a gun, and no one gets murdered by a gun. Simple enough?"

You relish the idea of gun bans, have you drawn up your plan on what to do about criminals that already possess guns? Not sure if anyone's told you, but criminals don't give squat about your gun bans or anyone else's gun bans.

But I'm sure you have a simple solution for that.

;)







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[Karl_Bonner_1982]

11. Well put!

I'm a hard core liberal, but I do support the right to carry a weapon for self defense, and of course the whole hunting thing. Not only were DC residents forbidden to defend themselves in this manner, but they were effectively proscribed from hunting hobbies because they happened to live under an anti-gun law.

I do, however, support regulation of gun ownership, so I'm not a Charlie Heston type fanatic.