Armed man scares store

[tburnsten]

You'll never believe this one...

http://www.thedenverchannel.com/news/16888397/detail.html
AURORA, Colo. -- The report sounded ominous when Aurora police responded Tuesday morning after hearing a man with a AK47 and a banana clip was seen in a Home Depot Store.

Police surrounded the store at 3475 N. Salida St., just before 9 a.m.

Employees and customers were brought out of the store as officers with rifles searched the interior for the reported gunman.

K-9 units were also called in the search the store.

Then, an employee came forward and told police that a man matching the description of the gunman had been inside the store earlier.

The employee said the man was carrying a nail gun and was looking for parts. He had left before police arrived.

Move along, nothing to see here.

I think maybe we need to start having weapons identification classes as a part of basic high school curriculum. Or maybe people just need to relax a little.

[Longtooth]

1. The person that reported this may not know what an AK-47 is BUT

he/she sure knew all the right "buzz" words thanks to our intolerant gun hating media.

[damntexdem]

24. Just a 'buzz word,' eh. Were only our media truly gun-hating.

We would all be better off. NO ONE outside the military or police should be allowed to possess an AK-47.

[Longtooth]

33. Kinda missed the point there didn't ya?

The dumb-ass didn't know the difference between an AK-47 and a NAIL gun. But why let that get in the way of a little fear mongering.

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

37. No one except the police, military is allowed to without special permits and a lot of fees.

[benEzra]

38. That's already current law, pretty much.

Possession of an actual AK-47, or any other automatic weapon, outside of police/military duty is a 10-year Federal felony violation of the Title 2/Class III provisions of the National Firearms Act of 1934, unless you first obtain Federal authorization (BATFE Form 4). If you do jump through all the hoops necessary to obtain a Form 4 (including having your local chief law enforcement officer sign off on your application), you may only purchase civilian-transferable pre-1986 collectibles, which start around $17,000 USD.

[ensho]

2. when a gun is around I don't relax .

nt

[Longtooth]

3. Especially those fully automatic assault nail guns with "banana" clips HaHaHa

[jody]

4. IMO fear of armed policemen is a phobia? n/t

[benEzra]

5. A gun wasn't around.

A "nail gun" isn't a firearm, and doesn't particularly look like one.

Of course, to someone properly conditioned by the MSM, anything made of black metal that is more than 20" long is an "AK-47."

[ensho]

9. I don't even want to be around a nail gun - saw a man get one in the head

caused by himself accidently

[RaleighNCDUer]

14. It's not conditioning by the MSM, it is conditioning by the gun lobby.

We have to stay scared so that we will buy more guns to keep safe - which puts more guns on the street, which in turn makes us more scared.

Remember, the MSM is NOT the liberal bastion the RW says it is. It is a CORPORATE bastion - and the corporations profit by keeping America afraid.

[tburnsten]

15. What is the gun lobby?

I don't think that firearms groups like the NRA have any vested interest in making people think nail guns are AK-47s. Could please maybe start a new thread where you describe the goals and methods of the gun lobby, backed up with some facts? no blanket generalizations, the ones you have been writing are all pretty far out.

Thank you.

[RaleighNCDUer]

16. Ever hear of Remington? Smith & Wesson? Ruger?

The manufacturers who PROFIT (you might recall I used that word) by scaring people into buying guns.

Of course, I'm sure there is no relationship between the NRA and any weapons manufacturer. That's just silly thinking.

http://www.reuters.com/article/pressRelease/idUS129188+19-Feb-2008+PRN20080219

http://www.remington.com/products/firearms/rimfire_rifles/model_552_speedmaster_NRA_edition.asp

http://www.nrafoundation.org/friends/f0620061.asp

As with ANY lobby, it is all about corporate profits.

[tburnsten]

17. They don't make much money

Sure they make enough to stay in business, but they are not huge monstrous corporations. And their products outlast their customers.

[RaleighNCDUer]

18. "And their products outlast their customers."

Which is why they have to do everything they can to expand their market.

Get it?

[tburnsten]

20. It's like talking to a brick

Their products last almost forever given proper maintenance, which means that they can't attempt to sell millions and millions of firearms every year, it won't happen. They have a limited customer base and their customers have a limited pool of resources. And self defense would be a terrible route to go if trying to expand their sales to the millions per unit, because almost every gun owner has far more guns for targets, competition, clays, and hunting than they do for self defense. That is because while all self defense guns need to fit a relatively identical role, all other uses for firearms need much more variation.

[RaleighNCDUer]

27. After ever well publicized mall, or office,or school shooting

do gun sales go up?

You know they do.

By your take on it the market is already saturated, with 200 million guns owned by 220 million adults. But you know damn well it isn't the target shooters, the hunters, the competitive shooters who rush out to buy guns every time something like that happens. There are vastly different markets there. Competitive shooters will spend many hundreds on high quality weapons - while Scared Citizen wants something cheap that goes bang and fits in a pocket. As for 'proper maintenance', those who are panicked into purchasing weapons that will just sit in the closet or glove compartment are not going to be the 'proper maintenance' customers, and most those weapons will not last a decade.

Not to mention the great numbers of weapons which wind up in the hands of criminals and even most stupid criminals know better than to hang onto a weapon that has been used in a shooting - thousands upon thousands wind up in sewers and streams and lakes and landfills.

There is a HUGE domestic market outside the sport shooters. But of course you know that - virtually every post in these threads is not about sport shooting but about self defense.

That's how I differentiate between gun enthusiasts and gun nuts. That, and the fact that only gun nuts deny the existence of gun nuts.

[slackmaster]

32. Yes, they do, but not as much as they go up when there is a major urban riot

Or a gun control proposal in Congress.

[AtheistCrusader]

34. What?

I hardly know where to start.

"By your take on it the market is already saturated, with 200 million guns owned by 220 million adults. But you know damn well it isn't the target shooters, the hunters, the competitive shooters who rush out to buy guns every time something like that happens. There are vastly different markets there. Competitive shooters will spend many hundreds on high quality weapons - while Scared Citizen wants something cheap that goes bang and fits in a pocket. As for 'proper maintenance', those who are panicked into purchasing weapons that will just sit in the closet or glove compartment are not going to be the 'proper maintenance' customers, and most those weapons will not last a decade."

Let's start with the first sentence: 200m guns owned by 220m adults? Are they sharing custody? Weekend visitation? 220 million is pretty high too, last survey I read pegged that number around 90 million owners.

Competitive shooters spend many THOUSANDS on 'high quality weapons'. 'Scared citizens' as you put it, spend many hundreds in most cases, unless they are buying used, which rules out the gun lobby getting any money from it. People who go cheap, probably go used from a pawn shop or suchlike.

As long as those weapons are not being exposed to excessive humidity, they will still last a decade and many more.

[benEzra]

26. The gun-industry lobby is the NSSF. The NRA is the gun-owner lobby.

The NSSF is the National Shooting Sports Foundation, if you've never heard of it. The gun-industry standards group is SAAMI, the Sporting Arms and Ammunition Manufacturer's Institute, FWIW.

The NRA is a gun-owner membership group and is funded primarily by member contributions, not by the gun industry, which is why the NRA sometimes works against gun-industry profits when the two conflict (such as when the issue is the importation of dirt-cheap foreign collectibles that undercut gun-industry profits).

I believe the entire U.S. gun industry combined is smaller than the U.S. drywall industry (in terms of annual revenues), but I'd have to look that up to make sure.

[benEzra]

25. You are correct that the MSM is corporatist---and corporatists HATE gun ownership by "little people"

which is why the MSM, the repubs at the Brady Campaign, and a few holdout corporatists at the DLC are so vociferously against us "little people" owning guns.

FWIW, describing everything even vaguely rifle-like as an "AK-47" stems from ignorance of guns and Federal law, not knowledge thereof. True AK-47's are tightly controlled by Federal law, and have been since they were invented, and non-automatic civilian AK lookalikes are "scary" only if you fall for the MSM hysteria about the "AK menace".

Truth is, rifles are the LEAST misused of all firearms, and the gun-control lobby is fully aware of that fact, even if they choose to ignore it.

[Howzit]

40. So cops and Wells Fargo money truck guards make you nervous? N/T

[madeline_con]

44. I know a guy who f-ed up his foot BAD with a nail gun.

He had it in a cast for a while.

On edit: I also know one idiot who did the proverbial "shot in the foot". :rofl:

[RaleighNCDUer]

6. You think that maybe if there were NOT weekly incidents of crazies

with guns walking into stores that people might relax?

The entire premise of "concealed carry" is that some scary guy might show up intent on shooting people, so everybody should be prepared by having guns themselves.

So you are faulting this person for actually believing your propaganda?

[SteveM]

7. No, faulting him for not knowing enough about guns...

and wasting valuable police time on an action which could have led to people being injured.

Get over your fear of weapons by learning about them, at least to the extent of identifying them. (Note upstream where it was pointed out that the individual knew all the T.V./Brady-driven catch phrases.)

[tburnsten]

8. Did you even read the article?

It is about a skittish (at best) customer in a HOME DEPOT calling the police to report "man with an ak-47 and banana clip!" when the man in a HOME DEPOT had a N-A-I-L G-U-N, not a R-E-A-L G-U-N, and definitely not an ak47.

That's like someone going paintballing and calling the police because he sees people running through the woods shooting at each other. Do you know what a Home Depot is? They specialize in construction materials and do it yourself renovation and home improvement items. Nail guns fit right in there. It isn't like someone called this in from a library or ice skating rink, they called it in from a construction store!

And what "weekly incidents of crazies walking into stores with guns" are you talking about? Wanna post a representative example or two and some data, or would you just like to make a blanket (false) statement and then retreat?

[Dimensio0]

10. An armed individual recently entered a store that I regularly patronize.

In fact, this particular individual enters the store at least once a week, if not more often, while wearing a holstered handgun that is openly displayed. However, no evidence suggests that I am mentally unstable and, as such, those events would not fully satisfy the previous poster's assertion of "crazies walking into stores with guns".

Curiously, on no occasion has my presence resulted in any police contact.

[RaleighNCDUer]

11. Why bother? Your reality doesn't admit for any real reality to intrude.

But lets play the numbers game.

@ 20,000 shooting deaths/year (I know that's low - more like 30,000, but the lower # you can't possibly object to).

Of that 20,000, @ 40% are self inflicted.

Of the other 12,000 @ 50% are intentional shootings by family or friends.

That leaves @ 6,000/yr of shooting by strangers.

Let's guess that 90% are committed in robberies or gang violence.

The remaining 600 would be random fucking strangers, walking down the street or into businesses shooting strangers.

That's a little more than 1 a week. Therefore, my "weekly indcidents" is an under-estimate.

Now, I know these are just estimates. Maybe it's only 5% of stranger shooting that are committed by schizophrenics and PTSD sufferers and other assorted crazies - only 300. Why, that's not ever one a day!

OTOH, 300 out of 300 million means your chances of running into one is roughly one in a million. You have better odds at winning the lottery.

The gun nuts play up the hysteria about needing to defend themselves against the crazies, and now you have problems when somebody gets hysterical.

Now THAT'S hysterical.

[slackmaster]

13. Body Count Fallacy

Defensive use of a firearm does not necessarily involve shooting someone with it. Most often, no rounds are fired.

[spin]

21. Never bring a Lotto ticket to a gunfight....

Both my mother and my daughter used firearms to stop attackers. (No one was hurt although my mother did fire a warning shot over the attackers head.)

So far, I've never had to use a weapon for self defense. And I agree that I will probably go through my entire life and never have to.

Statistics are nice. If I believed in statistics, I would never play the lottery. But I buy one ticket for every lotto drawing. I really doubt that I'll ever win but at least I have a chance. Carrying a concealed weapon is somewhat like buying a lotto ticket for each drawing with one big difference. I hope I never win the self defense lotto and have to draw my weapon for self defense. But If I do, at least I have a chance.

[slackmaster]

12. You've got it wrong on the "entire premise" of concealed carry

The purpose of carrying a weapon is for your own defense, not the safety of the general public.

[spin]

22. Very true. A CCW holder is not a cop...

nor does he play one on TV.

[tburnsten]

47. Right on Slack

I don't know of anyone of sound mind who carries for the safety of their entire town, or anyone at all who carries for any reason other than for personal protection. The only way that concealed carry extends an umbrella of protection is when the carrier happens to be in sight of an event that is clearly wrong, such as the horrific Kitty Genovese incident or the incident with the toddler kicked to death by his worthless father. Concealed carriers as a group are more responsible than non carriers as a group, and with that usually also comes a sense of community and desire to do right. When a serious crime is being committed in their presence, there is a good chance that they will intervene, often the result is a fleeing perpetrator, but they have the ability to forcefully stop the criminal actions should the character not stop on his or her own on presentation of the pistol and orders to stand down.

CC isn't a public safety measure, its an indivual safety measure that sometimes works out in favor of non carriers as well.

[spin]

19. The entire premise of concealed carry is that...

the weapon is concealed.

I walk into stores all the time with a concealed weapon. I never scare a single person because the weapon is CONCEALED.

If somebody spots that weapon and calls police then I will find myself in some trouble with the law. I make damn sure that nobody notices I'm carrying a firearm. I've had a permit and carried for at least 10 years. Nobody has ever noticed.

If I carried a weapon is such a casual manner that some citizen would notice it, I would consider myself crazy.

And in most cases it would have to be real obvious (like open carry) because most people have their heads stuck up their ass and have absolutely no idea of what is happening around them (in politically correct terms they lack situational awareness).

[benEzra]

28. A person walks into a store that sells NAIL GUNS and freaks out about someone with a NAIL GUN.

That is abject silliness.

[damntexdem]

23. But that's what the terrorists want: then they'll start packing AK-47s that look like nail guns!

And watch out -- that hammer looks like a bomb to me!

;-)

[spin]

29. I'm sure our Congress will outlaw any nail guns that look nasty...

Another useless feel good measure that makes them look like they are actually in touch and interested in doing something.

They definitely could limit the magazine capacity on these nail guns. I seen one that had a 110 nail capacity. I guess it might qualify as an assault nail gun.

[RaleighNCDUer]

30. Let's see - Aurora CO.

Where have I heard of that before?

"The City of Littleton is a suburb of the Denver-Aurora Metropolitan Statistical Area"

Do ya think...?

Naw. Just some moron going hysterical.

(speaking of high schools)

[RaleighNCDUer]

31. So, nobody wants to go there? nt

[Erebus67]

35. Yep it's some morom going hysterical, couldn't agree more.

Let me ask you something should people that live in Houston Texas freak out if they see a mother with a glass of water because Andrea Yates drown her kids? "It's still water and she had it near the kids!!! It's for the children!!! If it saves just one life!!!"

Give me a break, the idiot couldn't tell the difference between a guy holding a NAIL gun and a guy holding a REAL gun. I have never seen a nail gun that even REMOTELY resembled an AK.

[Callisto32]

36. Why is it ALWAYS an Avtomat with these things.

Any time somebody wants to work up some fear or overreacts to a gun: ZOMG!1!!!1 ItZ tEh AK-47z!!!!11!!!!1!!!

In reality, in the US it is almost NEVER an AK variant, and almost CERTAINLY NOT a -47.

Also, I personally find humorous the demonizing the "banana clip." Every time I read that term I wonder if people would think about it differently if it was known as a "detachable box magazine manufactured in the manner of an arc."

[WWFZD]

39. OK, So some imbecile mistook a nail gun

for an AK, in an establishment that sells nail guns. This would be analogous to the same type of imbecile phoning the police to report an AQ Chem weapons attack at a White Castle because he/she happened to pass by an individual who just consumed 5 jalapeno cheeseburgers and cut a particularly noxious fart.
Why are the authorities not seriously hassling the imbecile who wasted their time with this false alarm?

[Longtooth]

41. Good Question!!!!

And goes back to my original point. The idiot doesn't know the difference between an AK-47 and a nail gun but knows all the visceral "buzz" words. I wonder where the idiot learned all the visceral "buzz" words but failed to get educated on what an AK-47 really is?

[WWFZD]

45. I agree but

wherever the criminal learned those words really doesn't matter. And yes the imbecile, er uh "concerned citizen" who called the law is a criminal.
Let's say I sat out on my front lawn one cool fall day and saw smoke coming from my neighbors house. So I run inside and call the fire department to report a fire, and imminent danger to everyone in my neighbor's home. A couple minutes later the fire department, EMS and police show up and I point them to the house with a few puffs of smoke coming from the chimney. Are the authorities going to thank me for being a concerned citizen? And I didn't even potentially incite a panic like the imbecile at Home Depot. K-9 units and rifle toting police herding people out of the store could easily have resulted in injury to the old-timer who stopped by to look through the bargain bin.
I think the cops would take me back into my house for a lot of questioning and several citations, if not an arrest.
Why should the law not treat imbecile/criminal's gross stupidity and panicky incompetence the same as my hypothetical example?
I suppose the blame will go where it naturally goes in a situation where firearms are involved; the evil assault rifle. Even if the banana clipped AK in question was a nail gun.
How long before some Denver politician uses this situation as one more piece of evidence to back up his/her call for a new AWB?

[Longtooth]

46. Excellent point. I agree completely!

[Xela]

42. Public Ignorance and media madness

Thanks to an uneducated public, ignorant journalists (or journalists with an anti-gun agenda) can wreak havoc quite easily.

Take Mexico, where even a Ruger 10/22 with a hi-cap magazine can be labelled a "cuerno de chivo" ("banana clip" in Spanish).

Actually, "cuerno de chivo" literally means: goat's horn. And it is the classic nickname for a full auto AK-47/AKM. The term "cuerno de chivo" is used whenever drug lords and gang wars make it to the news and the reference is to foster pure sensationalism.

As time has gone by, nowadays Mexican journalists (and most are anti-gun) don't give a damn and they don't distinguish between one firearm or another...A hi-cap M1 carbine...it's a "cuerno de chivo"...a semi-auto AR-15 with 30 round mag...it's a "cuerno de chivo"...an SKS with a hi-cap...you got it...it becomes a "cuerno de chivo".

Xela

[madeline_con]

43. "There's been a shooting!"

Overheard at the local Winn Dixie years ago when someone fell over near the restrooms. Someone called out, "Get Mr. Shute!" (the manager, pronounced shooty). When someone else in the crowd said, "what did he say?" some moran said, "There's been a shooting!" :eyes:

spell edit