Shooter feared trick-or-treater was robber - sprays 30 rounds thru door at knock, kills 12 yr old

[Liberal_in_LA]

Who sprays 30 rounds thru a door at a knock ON HALLOWEEN!?


http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5hRQwzyLHeXFy9MJwA44-IE38aUrAD946DN2G0


Police: Shooter feared trick-or-treater was robber
By MEG KINNARD – 1 hour ago

SUMTER, S.C. (AP) — An ex-convict who thought he was being robbed gunned down a 12-year-old trick-or-treater, spraying nearly 30 rounds with an assault rifle from inside his home after hearing a knock on the door, police said Saturday.

Quentin Patrick, 22, is accused of killing 12-year-old T.J. Darrisaw on Friday night. T.J.'s 9-year-old brother, Ahmadre Darrisaw, and their father, Freddie Grinnell, were injured but were released after being treated at a hospital.

The family attended a Halloween celebration in downtown Sumter, 45 miles east of Columbia, then stopped at Patrick's house because the porch light was on, police said. Another sibling was with them, but wasn't hurt.

Police said at least two of the boys were wearing ghoulish masks when they knocked on the door. The boys' mother and a toddler stayed in the car nearby.

Patrick emptied his AK-47, shooting at least 29 times through his front door, walls and windows after hearing the knock, Police Chief Patty Patterson said.

[tekisui]

1. .

:cry: :banghead: :grr:

[SharonAnn]

113. Since when do robbers knock on the door?

[HopeFor2006]

2. I was heartbroken when I read the story

How devastating for this family. :cry:

[Critters2]

4. Me too! SO horrible!

:cry:

[HopeFor2006]

13. What could be more sweet than a father taking his children trick or treating?

Poor, innocent baby.

[wuushew]

3. This guy is a convicted crack and meth dealer

n/t

[Cerridwen]

25. I missed that in the article. Could you show me the paragraph that

was in? Or maybe you have some other information I didn't see in the article. I'm looking around and can't find much other than the AP story listed here. If you've got additional information on this I'd appreciate it.

Thanks.

[wuushew]

35. He has multiple charges of the same crime

I don't know what to make of that without more info.

The law covers several drugs.


http://www.sumtercountysc.org/publicindex/PICaseDetails.aspx?County=43+&Casenum=H905629&CourtType=G&CaseType=Criminal&CourtAgency=43001&LastName=Patrick&FirstName=Quentin

[Cerridwen]

36. Thanks. I couldn't find anything. eta: I see only one charge.

Am I reading that wrong?

[wuushew]

41. search by his name and look for different case numbers

I found three drug and one traffic.

[Cerridwen]

50. Thanks. I'm not doing so well with multi-tasking today.

I appreciate you taking the time to respond.

:hi:

[HeeBGBz]

44. That's what I thought. Drug paranoia.

How sad for this family.

[The Hope Mobile]

135. I figured that had to be involved in this somehow

[elocs]

5. Evidently they are very polite in SC and knock before robbing.

Sad and pathetic. Sure hope this guy goes to prison for a long time. I believe prisons should be used to separate those from society for the safety of society and this guy fits that perfectly.

[Cronus Protagonist]

6. It's not the AK47's fault

It's the brainless moron gunslinger's fault.

[plaintiff]

12. Exactly. Well said!

:-)

[zanne]

90. That's right. Guns don't kill people....

PEOPLE WITH GUNS KILL PEOPLE!

[Pavulon]

103. Youtube TATP.

There is always a better way. The motive is the issue. Not the instrument.

[Indenturedebtor]

129. Yes he could just as easily have thrown a hand grenade at the door....

Oh wait we aren't allowed to have hand grenades. It's a good thing too cause he prolly would have taken out the ENTIRE family with a hand grenade.

[Pavulon]

153. We dont allow crack heads/dealers

to own machine guns OR replicas (semi auto ak's)

I'm pretty sure we dont allow crack. Or murder. Seems banning stuff does not work that well.

[raccoon]

134. Yes, but why in Hades does an average citizen need one? nt

[Cronus Protagonist]

136. That's a good question. I just wanted to make sure the right person got the blame

...and the jail sentence.

[SteveM]

174. This question of need is fatuous in a consumer culture...

The vast majority of things we own are not "needed," including automobiles which "kill" more people each year than guns.

I will go hunting this weekend. I will use a standard Remington 700 walnut & blue steel deer rifle (far more powerful than an AK-47) w/ scope. Do I need it? No, I could use something else. But I NEED to use SOMETHING. The rest is a matter of style, price, performance, etc.

An AK-47 is considered a good self-defense weapon, a very good long-range target weapon (cheap ammo), and is increasingly seen in the field, usually chambered for larger calibers (like the relatively new .260 REM) more suited for taking deer-size game. Why would folks use an AK "clone" or knock-offs of AR-15s? Because they are shorter, ergonomically superior to traditional rifles, often lighter, and kick less. And the accuracy is on a par with the bolt-action rifle I use.

If I was young and starting to deer hunt now, I would CHOOSE an AR-15-type rifle, tweaked for hunting use.

[iverglas]

157. gosh

It's not the AK47's fault

One would almost think someone had said it was.

I've noticed that it's been a couple of hundred years since anybody but the psychotic ascribed blame and responsibility for events to objects. Or even animals.

Did you imagine there were a lot of delusional individuals reading this thread, who needed to be informed that their delusions were false?

[Sebastian Doyle]

7. Why the FUCK does an EX-CONVICT (with mental problems, no less) own a goddamned ASSAULT WEAPON??

This is EXACTLY the type of person who should not be permitted to LOOK at a gun, much less own one. And I'd bet a month's salary that he bought it from psycho NRA thug at a gun show, so he wouldn't have to go through a background check he would have never passed.

[remedy1]

23. It is likely stolen.

If he was convicted of a felony, he has no legal right to own a gun.

If he bought it from someone on the street he wouldn't have to pass a background check either. And dealers at "gun shows" perform background checks, BTW.

Stop hyperventilating for a second and understand that a criminal will always obtain a gun regardless of the laws on the books. That is why they are criminals.

This incident would not have turned out any different if the perp had a shotgun, or a hunting rifle.

[JI7]

28. only because guns are so easily available in this country and those who get it legally

sometimes sell it to these criminals .

[remedy1]

32. Most people who legally own guns...

do not sell them to criminals. In fact many (like myself) who have sold guns do so through a licensed dealer who does a background check on the buyer prior to the sale.

[Name removed]

31. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[LostinVA]

40. No, he could easily by it at certain gun shows in NC or SC

[krispos42]

71. Not quite true

A gun show is a travelling mall. It rents retail space to people who want to sell things there.

When you go to a mall and buy something, the mall isn't selling you anytyhing or collecting any taxes, the retail store in the mall is.


In a similar fashion, whether a person does or does not go through a background check depends entirely on who is doing the selling, not the geographical location of the sale.

Federally licenced firearms dealers must always perform a background check and comply with state and local laws for buyers that are not federally licenced dealers, i.e., pretty much everybody. Where they are does not matter. Gun show, gun store, kitchen table, behind a bowling alley at 4am, etc.

Private sales don't have that restriction; guns are bought and sold like TV sets and furniture.

(A couple of states mandate that all sales go through a licened firearms dealer for the background check and waiting periods.)


A felon could buy one at a gun show if a private dealer had a table there. They usually don't, though. Pretty much every gun seller at a gun show is a federally licenced dealer. Sometimes there's an estate sale there, like "my grandpa died and gave me his gun collection so I'm selling them all at once", but that's not too common.

A felon could also hit up yard sales and check the classifieds to find one and do a private transfer. It's not legal but currently there is no mechanism for a private seller to be able to know the legal status of the person he's selling to.

:shrug:

Some have suggested ways to fix that.

[LostinVA]

92. It IS 100% true

My parents have been offered all kinds of firearms at gun shows -- cash, no questions asked. My parents aren't criminals, so they don't -- nor want to -- do it.

[zanne]

121. krispos, I'm in such a good mood today....

I am NOT going to argue with you!

[krispos42]

125. 53 hours to go....

Nerve-wracking, isn't it?!?!?

:-)

[RamboLiberal]

122. Gun shows does depend on state laws

For instance in PA - you have to go through Federal check at a gun show to buy a gun from a vendor. Not all state laws require that of individual sellers.

[CreekDog]

48. your advice: don't overreact (hyperventilate) to the murder of a 12-year old

[Critters2]

49. Yeah. Laws are so annoying. People just keep breakin' 'em.

Let's start by gettin' rid of gun laws. Then speed limits.

What other laws do you think we should stop paying attention to, remedy?

[boozepusher]

54. Marijuana laws?

Or maybe you agree with those too.;)

[npk]

64. It likely belongs to another family member

That would be my guess. At least a family member purchased the gun.

[slackmaster]

85. He is not permitted to buy, own, or possess any kind of firearm

My question is: Why was this individual not in prison?

[cabluedem]

91. The gun show loohole has to be stopped. This goon had no right to a gun. nt

[aikoaiko]

116. Is there any evidence he bought this gun at a gunshow?

Maybe it was stated so in another article?

[SteveM]

175. You have declared a "gun show loo(p)hole." What is it? What would you do?

[ladym55]

8. And the reason why this guy has a powerful firearm would be???

I wish this nation would show a little common sense about firearms.

[plaintiff]

11. Would you care to be a bit more specific?

What would more 'common sense' be, exactly?

[Critters2]

19. You mean besides making it more difficult for people who shoot

trick-or-treaters to get AK-47s?

[plaintiff]

37. More difficult...how exactly, by means of more stringent laws? When the ones we have now

are not very well enforced? I don't disagree with your agenda there but you haven't really explained how to accomplish it...

[ladym55]

26. well, a convicted meth and crack dealer isn't someone I want to see with an AK-47 on his front hall

table. An 8-year-old died just a few days ago from the recoil of shooting a semi-automatic weapon. His dad was right there and thought that having his young son shoot a powerful weapon was okay. It obviously wasn't. I can't find the link to the article for you. I've been traveling over the past few days, and I can't remember if I read about in Ohio or Massachusetts.

That's what I'm talking about when I mention common sense.

[plaintiff]

39. No disagreement...how exactly do you propose to "fix" the problem you see?

The 8-year old who killed himself did so while partaking of an activity sanctioned (and paid for) by his own father. Apparently there are some folks hereabouts who don't think parental control is sufficient to prevent these kinds of incidents...but not many are willing to abdicate it (yet) to some or other authorities...

[benEzra]

143. "from the recoil of shooting a semi-automatic weapon"

No, that was from a Federally restricted machinegun (it was in Massachusetts). A semiautomatic, by contrast, fires once and only once when the trigger is pulled.

Personally, I don't want a convicted meth and crack dealer to have a pump shotgun in his front hall, either.

[SteveM]

177. The weapon killing the 8-year-old kid was FULL-AUTOMATIC ...

Please acquaint yourself with the difference between FULL-AUTO and SEMI-AUTO. The latter is owned by tens of millions of Americans; the former by perhaps 300,000 Americans via heavy Federal regulation.

Common sense starts with good definitions.

[iverglas]

158. hey, I'll bite

What would more 'common sense' be, exactly?

I've never used the term myself, but if I were to, I'd say:


(a) require that anyone who wishes to acquire/possess a firearm obtain a licence for the purpose (which would involve taking a course and passing a test on gun law/safety) -- this would provide a permanent record of who is entitled to acquire/posess firearms, and provide anyone who might transfer a firearm to someone a way of knowing whether it is legal to do so, thus reducing the risk of unlawful transfers by "law-abiding" owners;

(b) require that every transfer of a firearm be registered -- this would provide a permanent record of the last lawful owner of a firearm, so that it could be traced from the hands of an unlawful owner to the last lawful owner and the means by which the unlawful owner acquired it determined, thus reducing the risk of unlawful transfers / negligent possession by "law-abiding" owners;

(c) require that all firearms be safely/securely stored -- this would make it less likely that individuals not entitled to acquire/possess firearms would have access to them through theft, thus reducing the risk of illegal acquisition.


All firearms in the possession of individuals not entitled to acquire/possess them were at one time legally owned by someone.

The idea isn't to make laws prohibiting illegal transfers and possession. The idea is to actually deter illegal transfers / make illegal acquisition difficult.

At least, that's the idea if you actually give a shit about trick-or-treating children being murdered by people with firearms.

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

161. Keeping drug dealers locked up for life would have prevented this murder also.

So I guess I should say if you At least, that's the idea if you actually give a shit about trick-or-treating children being murdered by people with firearms. So what about it Iverglas do you support automatic life sentences for drug dealers or are you for 12 year trick or treaters being murdered?

David

[iverglas]

167. yeah, but I'd been under the impression you had a constitution

and that it said something about due process, and cruel and unusual punishment, and equal protection of the law ...


So what about it Iverglas do you support automatic life sentences for drug dealers or are you for 12 year trick or treaters being murdered?

Stopped beating your dog yet?

Yeah, you're right. It's a different fallacy. Just as creepy though.

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

168. It also says something about the right to keep and bear arms.

Aren't you glad you don't have this problem in Canada?

David

[iverglas]

171. Exactly!

It also says something about the right to keep and bear arms.

And it does not say except for convicted drug dealers and other criminals!

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

172. My solution solves that too,

They can't have them in prison. See we killed to birds with one stone.


David

[iverglas]

203. uh oh

My post must be invisible.

Either that or you weren't really interested in answers to your question, eh?

[Marrah_G]

131. He would have it even if all guns were outlawed- he is a fucking criminal

He didn't buy it legally.

[iverglas]

159. yes indeed

He would have asked the gun faerie, and it would magically have appeared under his pillow ...

ALL firearms start out being owned legally.

[SteveM]

176. Clearly, you don't know. Show me some of your "common sense." (nt)

[plaintiff]

9. An ex-con with an AK47...well there's a recipe for disaster.

How did this particular asshole slip through the cracks?

[Critters2]

21. The cracks are REALLY REALLY large.

That's how.

[mike_c]

10. guns don't kill people! guns don't kill people!

I'll bet the NRA is all over this.

[shadowknows69]

14. WHY DID THIS FUCKER HAVE A MACHINE GUN?

Aww he was robbed and shot in the last year? Probably because of your criminal life you piece of shit! A parole officer somewhere really dropped a fucking ball here.

[boozepusher]

16. Probably stolen

I bet the rifle was stolen.

[Critters2]

22. From someone who needed an AK-47? nt

[boozepusher]

33. You seem to be concerned

with what people "need". Do you need a television or a car capable of 100mph? You know cars killed 40,000 people last year alone in the U.S. Where's the outrage?

[leeroysphitz]

38. Do 12 year olds need to breath? YMFDB.

[boozepusher]

43. I'm kind of new here

What does YMFDB mean? And yes I suppose twelve year olds do need to breath, but that really doesn't have anything to do with the point I was making.

[Critters2]

47. You suppose?

Maybe if people defended the rights of children to be safe with the same passion with which they defend the use of AK-47s, children would finally be safe.

[boozepusher]

51. I'm not defending

the use of AK-47's. Just the ownership of them. I'd still like to know what YMFDB means.

[Critters2]

52. Owning it, but not using it. There's that gun, umm, afficionado logic I've never understood.

That murderer in SC owned it but didn't use it, until he thought a 12 year old trick or treater was robbing him. Then it was handy, and well, the rest is history. I'm surely he only intended to own it. :eyes:

[krispos42]

72. It's pretty simple...

Things that are legal to own can be used for actions either legal or illegal.


You own a computer. So do many other people. Is everything the general population uses the computer for legal?

Of course not.

The presumption is that if you take something legal, and use it illegally, the authorities will arrest you for the crime and punish you accordingly.


It's legal for me to own a computer. It's legal for me to put that computer on high-speed internet access. It's legal for me to install a file-sharing program on it. It's legal for me to download and make available for upload non-copyrighted files.

However, the point at which I begin downloading copyrighted material is the point I've violated the presumption and started breaking the law.


Same thing with instant-messeging or chat rooms and picking up underage kids. At some point you cross a line and go from innocent person to sexual offender.



I own several guns with the presumption that I will use them lawfully. The type of gun that I have does not increase or decrease the chances that I will use them in an unlawful manner. And to date, their collective body count is zero.




In this case, as a convicted felon he couldn't even own the gun in the first place. There's not even a presumption that it will be used lawfully!

[benEzra]

150. I use my (civilian, non-automatic) AK once a month or so.

For lawful target competition and recreational shooting.

More Americans lawfully and responsibly own "assault weapons" than hunt, as they dominate competitive and recreational target shooting in the United States. And yet rifles are consistently among the least misused of all firearms, though you'd never know it from the vultures in the MSM (or some here).

Not that rationality should get in the way of a good hatefest, though.

[orleans]

69. ya know, tulsa, when there is a story about some fucking loon

who massacres a kid for trick or treating--IT'S NOT THE TIME TO BE DEFENDING OWNERSHIP OF THE ASSAULT WEAPON.

sometimes timing is important. just like how you don't go to your best friend's wedding and start telling everyone how you fucked the bride before your friend started dating her.

[benEzra]

151. Nor is it the time to be gleefully using the tragedy to demonize people you disagree with.

Should this guy have had this gun---or ANY gun? No. Universal agreement on that point.

Does this tragedy mean we should outlaw the most popular civilian rifles in U.S. homes, even though only 3% of murders involve any type of rifle? I say no.

This was a TRAGEDY. An innocent child is dead, murdered by a convicted felon who was either so cold as to have no compunction about murdering a kid, or so screwed up on meth that he couldn't tell the difference between Halloween monsters and real ones. But using the child's body as a political football is just sick.

And yes, I am one of those eeeee-villll "AK" owners that the vultures in this thread would like to excoriate. I'm also 38 and have never had a speeding ticket, never been in a fistfight, read poetry for fun, and am dad to a special-needs kid.

If you'd like to find common-ground solutions to keep all guns out of the hands of crazy convicted meth dealers, I'm willing to listen and am on your side, but I have to confess that I have grown a bit cynical of the synthetic and highly selective "outrage" of the gun-ban lobbyists.

Question: If the drug dealer had used a sawed-off hunting-style shotgun a la Columbine, would the "outrage" against hunting shotguns have the same intensity as the "outrage" against low-powered rifles with modern styling? If not, why not?

[SteveM]

181. Well, enid, is it time to swoop in like compassionate vultures instead? (nt)

[SteveM]

180. I think people are already teaching their kids to be safer with guns...

In fact, the number of kids killed accidentally with guns is lower than other causes (drownings, electrocution, falls, etc) and falling faster than those other categories. Clearly, gun-owners are stepping up to the challenge of gun safety. I don't know about other parents.

How 'bout you?

BTW, what do you mean by "defended the RIGHTS of children to be safe"? Mind you, I am entirely supportive of kids being safe (although some of the culture-warriors here seem to think otherwise), I just can't figure out this RIGHT, in terms of legality and enforcement.

[SteveM]

179. I think you lost the argument, bud (nt)

[Critters2]

45. No, I don't need a car that can go 100 mph. And having one, I never drive it that fast.

I may have a car accident some day. But the purpose of my car is not killing others. And that certainly is not the purpose of my TV. An AK-47, though, what's that built to do?


Apparently, it can murder 12 year old trick or treaters with amazing efficiency. And then inspire people to defend its ability to do so. That is one remarkable piece of merchandise.

[Ghost in the Machine]

56. "Apparently, it can murder 12 year old trick or treaters with amazing efficiency."

Actually, 30 shots to kill one person isn't very efficient at all. Bullets aren't cheap, ya know...

Efficiency would be one shot = one kill...

just sayin'...

[Critters2]

61. Seems to have done the job.

A dead child is a dead child.



And a tragedy.

[Pavulon]

66. the gun just shot him

all by its self. amazing. lets see that it stands trial for murder. the person holding it was just a victim too..

[benEzra]

146. And if he had fired 40 9mm caliber projectiles through the door from a shotgun...

then the outcome would have been different?

Yes, THIS WAS A TRAGEDY.

But the gleeful use of this tragedy as a club against fellow DU'ers they disagree with on gun ownership is sickening. And the "outrage" is very, very selective.

[Name removed]

79. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Critters2]

126. The purpose of my car is to transport me from one place to another.

The purpose of an AK-47 is to kill.

See the difference?

[Pavulon]

154. Cars kill tens of thousands a year (50K or so)

that is a SHITLOAD of dead people. More people are STABBED to death than shot with assault rifles.

If you die an unnatural death odds favor the car (actually the person driving it killing you) than the ak.

More marines die on motorcycles than in combat.

Now go work on banning lightning strikes.

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

162. Millions of assault weapons in circulation in the US, less than 2% of crimes committed with them.

Seems like they might have some other purposes.

David

[SteveM]

183. "Purpose" has little to do with thousands more CAR DEATHS (nt)

[SteveM]

182. "Purpose" has little to do with thousands MORE car-deaths (nt)

[Carolina]

101. cars are not intended as weapons!

as for guns?????!!!!! The difference is simple as is the warranted outrage.

Tobacco causes >400,000 deaths annually in the US
Alcohol causes >100,000 deaths annually in the US
The list goes on. Bottom line guns serve ONLY one purpose. Get it?!

[SteveM]

184. Not sure what you're getting at...

You list all these deaths from tobacco and alcohol which are not intended to kill, but clearly can WHEN USED. (You leave out cars which cause tens of thousands of deaths a year WHEN USED; why I don't know.)

Guns clearly are used to kill, but judging the results from the other objects and substances you cite, they don't do as good a job. You should know that guns are used for target shooting and hunting (I presume you don't want to ban hunting) and self-defense (mine have been with me some 50 years and have yet to leap up and kill anyone).

Respectfully, you should "get" this: intent and purpose have little to do with an object; intent and purpose have everything to do with the PERSON holding and using the object.

Hopefully, you don't drive around in a two-ton box of metal at 60 mph on highways filled with like things, shearing past each other by mere feet. One would get the idea that those damned things were -- bottom line -- intended to kill.

[remedy1]

29. It wasn't a machine gun.

The AK is a semi auto, just like most hunting rifles.

[plaintiff]

42. Don't confuse 2nd Amendment haters with facts,

it just gives them more dyspepsia.

[shadowknows69]

87. Now I'm a 2nd amendment hater because I misclassified a weapon?

Man, and I thought I was paranoid.

[Name removed]

140. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[benEzra]

152. Yes, that's why my wife owns one.

your guns make your tiny little johnson feel big, don't they?

Yes, that's why my wife owns one. And why I carry a S&W Lady Smith, because, you know, it's so "manly."



Funny thing is, the only people I've ever encountered who view guns sexually are those who profess the greatest disgust for them. That would be an interesting psychological study.

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

163. Why are you gun grabbers so infatuated with male genitalia?

[SteveM]

185. It -- ahem -- comes with all that grabbing (nt)

[fascisthunter]

148. 2nd ammendment... a lot good it does this country

So when will you overthrow tyranny? You gun nutters even twist the 2nd Ammendment for nothing more than a hobby. No one needs an assualt weapon. Everything is regulated, get over it.

A kid gets shot and killed and all you care about are guns. the 2nd Ammendment has been used and abused as an excuse...

[Pavulon]

155. You Know what, screw that

kids get killed by cars (people driving cars to be precise), swimming pools, doctors, pharmaceutical reactions, sniffing glue, and yes PEOPLE with guns. People kill people, here and in Japan. Crack dealing pieces of shit and normal people alike murder each other.

That has JACK shit with my right to be a responsible adult and legally own a gun, none. No more than first amendment sanctioned assholes should trump my rights there.

So what is your suggestion. Let me guess, you got nothing. You going to ban guns? like crack is banned or marijuana. Even hookers are banned. Those bans work great.

I mean GOD knows you cant smoke dope with a hooker in vegas or bumfuck kentucky, not without at least one phone call...

Time to grow up. Volunteer to Amend the constitution or move the the most fucked up part of chicago or NYC where there is a handgun BAN. No guns there...Or just dont own one.

Be an adult and have a normal reaction. WTF is wrong with the PERSON who does that, killing kids. Not his SUV, not his RACE, just HIM.

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

169. Then put your money where your mouth is and repeal it.

[tblue37]

53. He was robbed because the robbers knew he had drugs and lots of

money in his house, because he was obviously a dealer.

[shadowknows69]

88. Bingo!

[tblue37]

94. Of course, that's also why he assumed anyone at his door was probably there

to rob him.

[Deep13]

98. FYI-not a machine gun. nt

[Deep13]

99. *wrong place*

[SteveM]

178. Uh, he didn't have a 'MACHINE GUN.' Are you reading these posts? (nt)

[NashVegas]

15. 22 Year Old Ex-Convict With An AK-47 - In South Freaking CAROLINA?

There's got to be some crazy-ass gang activity for this to have happened.

[marybourg]

17. The article doesn't address the issue of a convicted felon

being in possessions of firearms, and doesn't say he was charged for it. Is that legal in S.C.? They can't vote, but they can possess AK 47s??? :shrug:

[Sheepshank]

20. so freaking sad

the 22yo whack job needs to be put away for ever...or at least until he dies. My god what kind of person does that on October 31 or any other day. The kids KNOCKED on the door. Even if you thought the red commies were coming to get you, you think they would knock first? I call bull on that excuse.

[remedy1]

27. No they cannot.

Federal law prohibits anyone convicted of a felony from owning or possessing guns. So does the state law. He''l be charged.

[varkam]

58. Exactly. I'm imagining that it will be an aggravating circumstance.

He'll see a lot of time out of it.

[Turbineguy]

18. This shooter

sounds like he needs some cold, dead hands.

[RedCappedBandit]

30. That's your solution?

Fight violence with violence?

[Turbineguy]

97. No, not really

and a sarcasm smilie did not seem appropriate either.

[truthstream]

24. Sickening

Did this guy not know it was Halloween?? And if not, why would a 'robber'knock on the door? Is this his usual response to someone knocking on his door? Jeesh! Unbelievable!

[patrice]

34. Some people are looking for any convenient "excuse" to kill someone, i.e. they WANT to kill.

[Regret My New Name]

46. Was this guy tweaking or something?

[spoony]

74. Sure does sound like it.

Paranoia, total unawareness of the environment (ie it being Halloween and his light being on). This is an all-around atrocity.

[Initech]

55. HOLY FUCK!!!!!!!!!

:wow: :yoiks:

Damn... this is the exact reason why assault rifles should be flat out banned. Fuck the NRA.

[Tejas]

160. NRA has what to do with this?

Really, enlighten everyone (including yourself).

[SteveM]

186. Let's ban guns, dope, alcohol, gay marriage, tobacco. Everything solved!(nt)

[FM Arouet666]

57. Nice to see the gun nuts out on this one.

Clearly the guy was up to no good, girl friend trying to run off with $7,500 in cash, prior drug convictions. He thought he was being targeted by other druggies and fired away. Of course it is not the AK-47s fault, guns don't kill people, twisted ex-con drug addicts with guns kill people. The morally deficient part of that argument is that the NRA will continue to fight to ensure that people like this can easily get any gun their little heart desires.

The argument will be that the NRA wouldn't support an ex-con having this gun or laws already exist for this sort of thing. Well, the current laws didn't work and a 12 year old is dead because some drug head was able to buy a military assault rifle designed for use on a battle field. Makes a lot of sense.

The NRA's mindset is and always has been that any gun legislation, no matter how sensible it appears, will be the tip of the ice berg. One tiny right lost will open the flood gates to more legislation and before you know it, Knock Knock, the government is at your door to take away your guns. The NRA should change their name to PGOA, Paranoid Gun Owners of America.

I know, why don't we arm all the trick or treaters so they can fight back when faced with superior fire power. :sarcasm:

(Oh, and on edit I was a member of the NRA for 5 years, four of which I was also a US Marine, I also bought and sold firearms, reloaded ammunition, and had several guns which fired 7.62x39mm ammunition like the AK 47. I got tired of the barrage of phone calls and mailings asking for support and the extreme reaction to any and all gun legislation. There is no middle ground in the gun debate for NRA members, at least I never could detect one. Now I am gun free, 15 years.)

[TreasonousBastard]

60. That's about it in a nutshell. n/t

[plaintiff]

65. Fine. You're an "ex-nra" member...I've owned guns for over 55 years

and was NEVER a "member" of the NRA. There's no inherent connection between them and a supporter of the second amendment of our Bill of Rights. I imagine you know that...the extent to which you're willing to ignore it is your own choice.

[Lyric]

70. It is possible to support the 2nd Amendment without supporting it unconditionally.

Very few people bitch when the FIRST Amendment is slightly hedged in for the sake of public safety (no threatening the President, no yelling FIRE! in a theater, etc.) But even idle talk about doing the same for the 2nd Amendment brings the nuts out in all of their righteous fury.

I have no time for people with no fucking common sense. There is nothing wrong with getting rid of assault rifles and handguns--that leaves an enormous variety of firearms for "sportsmen" to choose from, and could seriously cut down on gun crime deaths. But no, the NRA-types gripe about the puny regulations we have NOW. I can only imagine the righteous indignation that would occur if we had gun regulations tough enough to make an actual difference!

The 2nd Amendment says that we have the right to bear arms. It doesn't say that we have the Constitutional right to bear ANY arms that exist. We have already established that civilians do not have the right to own certain military firearms--the argument at this point is solely about the degree of regulation. I am firmly on the side of REAL hunters--the ones who use their guns to put dinner on the table and to keep their farms safe, and who don't need a handgun or an assault rifle to feel "powerful." Let the military keep the assault rifles and the handguns--they're the ones who kill people for a living.

As my Dad (Vietnam Vet and lifetime gun-owner and hunter) used to say: "Why would I need a special gun for "self-defense?" My twelve-gauge will kill you deader than shit if you break into my house, and it'll bring home supper too."

[FM Arouet666]

77. bingo, well stated.

Fanatical devotion to the idea that every American has the right to own any kind of weapon. Just nutty.

[petronius]

115. As far as I can tell, every 2nd Amendment supporter (RKBAer,

pro-gun poster, or whatever you want to call them) on this thread has been completely in favor of the laws that prohibited this murderer from owning a gun in the first place. Perhaps you need to reconsider who the "fanatics" are before you start flinging around the name calling and the straw men...

[FM Arouet666]

156. Fling Fling Fling

Reconsidered. Yep, the NRA is still taking the fanatical line that all gun legislation is aimed at taking away our 2nd amendment rights. No middle ground in this debate.

Every time a high profile murder or school massacre takes place the gun proponents hide behind their condemnation of the shooter. The tired old guns don't kill people, crazy meth heads with guns kill people line.

Yes, there are laws which make it illegal for a crazy ex-con meth head to own a gun like this, but he still got one. Perhaps, the laws do not go far enough. Perhaps, what we need is a dialogue in this country about sane and safe gun ownership. That dialogue might include things like making extremely lethal weapons, weapons that make it easy to achieve a high body count, illegal. Sadly, we have no dialogue, we have the NRA.

[slackmaster]

173. We already have a law that keeps extremely lethal, military-type weapons out of criminals' hands

It's called the National Firearms Act, and it was enacted in 1934.

Sadly, we have no dialogue...

If you think there needs to be a dialogue about something, you are free to start one. But don't try shoveling the same bullshit that gun control extremists have been using for the last 15 years.

[SteveM]

190. The NRA has a web site...

If you have any real suggestions, based on good reasoning, present them. I've heard more about the NRA from you than the NRA.

[Tejas]

164. Sure, if SELECTIVE RIGHTS is your kind of thing

As said, the 1st has been slightly hedged and everyone is comfortable. The 2nd has also been slightly hedged, but the antis and gungrabbers don't think that's enough.

What is the deal with you people wanting to take firearms away from law-abiding citizens BUT you don't lift a finger to do something about criminal activity in this country?

There are approx 80-85 murders a day in the US, EACH DAY, what have you done lately about that?

Nothing.

No, it takes a drive-by article about a child blown away with a rifle to get your attention away from American Idol and then it's Katie bar the door: OH TEH NOES - LET'S BAN GUNS


And you demand an audience of law-abiding gunowners to cater to your whims?



Really?


this is a joke, right?

[SteveM]

189. Fanatical devotion to gun culture war? Bingo!

You can own most any kind of weapon -- but with severe restriction, federal registration, agreement to submit to feds usurping your 4th Amendment to enter your house to inspect for some weapons, letters from the head law enforcement in your jurisdiction, photos, prints, tax, etc. That's why so few people own cannons, bazookas, jet planes (the actor Dorn in Star Wars Next Generation owns and flies a Saber fighter), bombs (my uncle had his home in Tampa ringed with multi-colored empty-bombs), and machine guns, and assault rifles (full-auto).

The rest of firearms are regulated by laws in accordance with use (concealed carry, hunting, transport).

"Fanatical" devotion to gun-control has not improved the crime rate, help elect progressive candidates, nor solved any societal problem.
Perhaps a better term to use is "addiction." When one continues to use a substance or engage in behavior that is harmful to that person -- and that person knows it is harmful -- it is called addiction. Some Democrats continue to engage in addictive behavior by supporting meaningless gun-control.

You would agree?

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

207. Again who says that?

[pipoman]

81. The second amendment

doesn't have one single solitary fucking thing to do with hunting...nothing...

[aikoaiko]

82. Hunting? Sportsmen? What about self-defense? What about defense of state?

Those are the main reasons for the 2nd Amendment. Banning intermediate rifles with detachable magazines and handguns are clear violations.

If the 1st amendment was as regulated as the 2nd, you would cry.

The carbine is a better self-defense weapon than a shotgun, and it can bring home dinner too.

[derby378]

107. Uh, excuse me? THE MAN HAS A CRIMINAL REORD

And now you want to punish law-abiding Americans because of the illegal actions of a convicted drug dealer who never bothered to reform himself after prison? That's what put Republicans in charge of Congress back in 1994, which got us all in this sorry state of affairs to begin with.

Hands off my gun.

[Tejas]

165. Wonder how many repeat felons Helmke got locked up last week

Scared to get their hands dirty, easier to pester gunowners than do something about criminals.

[SteveM]

188. Please read the threads here...

"I am firmly on the side of REAL hunters -- the ones who use their guns to put dinner on the table and to keep their farms safe, and who don't need a handgun or assault rifle to feel 'powerful.'"

Here is why you are misinformed:
(1) The vast majority of people own arms not to feel powerful (those are your thoughts and impulses), but for self-defense;
(2) Assault rifles are already in the hands of the military, and only a few hundred thousand people own them in this country;
(3) Rifles of ALL sorts are used in less than 3 per cent of homicides in this country;
(4) Prohibition (and that's what you are calling for) of guns YOU want banned will not stop murders;
(5) Your Dad's shotgun was good enough for him. My .357 magnum revolver is good enough for me.

Common sense starts with facts and good definitions.

BTW, what does "keep their farms safe" with a gun mean?

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

206. Who here has said that the 2nd Amendment entitles everyone to the weapon of their choice?

[Name removed]

75. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[FM Arouet666]

170. Well then, that went over very well in my opinion.

Both your comment and mine got the sub-thread deleted. And against my better judgment I will respond again, albeit in a less confrontational manner.

Yes, there is no inherent connection between the NRA and all supporters of the second amendment.

But, the NRA is the most vocal and most powerful voice in the gun debate. I suspect, and you may not fall into this category, that there are a large number of gun enthusiasts who do not agree with the NRA, yet remain silent to what I would describe as an extremist position. I think that the discussion would be a whole lot less acrimonious, on both sides, if gun owners who disagree with the NRA got more involved in the discussion.


:hide:

[SteveM]

191. No one is stopping the discussion here (nt)

[Pavulon]

67. The replicas you speak of

have nothing to do with the AK that would be fired at you as a marine. The ak or rpk are select fire fully automatic weapons. The replica this person used is trash with the same low tolerances and sloppy gas piston mechanism. Except the first push down from safe is sloppy semi rather than full auto as with the ak weapons.

Unless dude had 20,000 and a federal background check he did not have an ak. If he modified some pos sks to slam fire he would do more time for that than killing a fellow drug dealer. 10 years in federal prison.

He killed one person, pretty shitty for a 30 rd mag. Even for a crack head, he would have done more damage with a shotgun.

The asshole firing the weapon is the responsible party. This is a simple concept.

[FM Arouet666]

76. Not so fast.

Yeah, I know that his weapon is not a true AK, that is not the point. As to all the posts about this being a machine gun, irrelevant, it was an assault rifle knock off, not a fully automatic AK you would find on the battle field.

You nailed it on the head with the 30 rd mag bit. Why does someone need this kind of weapon with high capacity clips? Your not going to hunt with this thing, there are better weapons for self protection. So why are they still legal? Because the gun lobby is against all legislation concerning banning any kind of gun. The NRA takes the position that the Constitution implies that Americans should be able buy any kind of weapon. Period.

Yes the asshole firing the weapon is responsible but society is responsible for allowing this asshole the access to this kind of weapon. Yes, a shotgun or hunting rifle can kill. But a nut armed with an AK knock off and a bunch of high capacity clips can kill that much more effectively. Hence the reason fully automatic weapons are banned.

I am not advocating a ban on guns. I just do not like the fanatical stand taken by the NRA, no compromise no discussion we want our guns the world be damned. Just crazy if you ask me.

[Pavulon]

102. I disagree with the NEED and Ban logic

murder is illegal. Shooting a "threat" through a door with no visual id is illegal. Illegal action is the problem here. Handguns are basically banned in NYC but if you have the money you just buy your way around. If you are poor you are SOL.

We dont NEED many things. You dont need a volvo or bmw or even a camry (those are nice), you just need a yugo to get you to work. (if no subway exists) Need base is not a great way to make law.

The AK mag design would impact this sequence because it loads with a two step motion. Plus its recoil profile is terrible.
However given an m4 and a single 30rd mag or 3 10 round mags I am confident I could fire the same number of aimed shots with either. Not full auto dumps. Aimed shots to 100m. Aimed shots kill, cover fire is not relevant here.

You know reload is snappy, so you are just releasing the 10, slamming another in, then releasing the bolt. Eyes never leave the target.

Some of the most effective killers have used the Remington 700 rifle in 30 cal.

I guarantee this was some drug shit and this guy was on parole or probation.

[SteveM]

192. Take one mag & tape it to another, upside down. Wanna ban mags? Tape?(nt)

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

200. I've never heard the NRA calling for the repeal of the NFA of 1934.

Or for the weapons prohibited there-in to be sold with no restrictions.

David

[FM Arouet666]

204. 74 years is a long time.

Your statement is valid, in fact the NRA helped craft the NFA of 34'. However, 74 years is a very long time, the gun debate today is nothing like that of 34'. I have to wonder if the NRA of today transported to 1934 would have been so conciliatory?

But, it will be a topic for the gun enthusiasts, I will try to avoid the topic as much as possible. Having been away for a while I forgot how aggressive the debates are in the gun forum. As surprising as it may be, I am not as polarized on this topic as my posts would appear.

Happy hunting......

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

205. I don't hunt.

The gun forum is not much more lively than the health forum. I guess both are polarizing issues.

David

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

208. They haven't tried to change it in 74 years.

[aikoaiko]

80. The NRA is now helping Democrats improve background check laws.

Really, this idea that the NRA fights every gun control proposal is myth.

NRA, Democrats Team Up To Pass Gun Bill
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2007/06/13/politics/main2923101.shtml
WASHINGTON, June 13, 2007
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
(CBS/AP) After 52 years in Congress, John Dingell knows it sometimes takes a "rather curious alliance," such as between the National Rifle Association and the House's most fervent gun control advocate, to move legislation.

That's what took place Wednesday when the House, by voice vote, passed a gun control bill that Rep. Dingell, D-Mich., helped broker between the NRA and Rep. Carolyn McCarthy, D-N.Y.

With the NRA on board, the bill, which fixes flaws in the national gun background check system that allowed the Virginia Tech shooter to buy guns despite his mental health problems, has a good chance of becoming the first major gun control law in more than a decade.

"We’ll work with anyone, if you protect the rights of law-abiding people under the second amendment and you target people that shouldn't have guns," NRA chief Wayne LaPierre told CBS News Correspondent Sharyl Atkisson

I also find your equating semi-automatic AK-47 style rifles found in American gun stores with the fully automatic type found on battle fields to be strange. So called assault weapons are useful for self-defense.

As a general rule, the NRA fights laws that take guns out of the hands of law-abiding citizens (even if the goal is to keep them out of the hands of criminals).

[Paladin]

108. Welcome To The Club.

I used to be an active participant in hunting and shooting sports, but I walked away from such activities because I didn't like the company I had to keep. And a quick glance at DU's Gungeon on any given day indicates things have just gotten worse---on top of the always-present right wing politics, recreational shooting has been militarized and rendered increasingly juvenile, on the level of computer games. Glad I'm out of it. Oh yeah, I almost forgot.....Fuck the NRA.

[derby378]

112. Don't let a few chowderheads drive you away from a treasured pasttime

There is an increasing number of liberals who enjoy more "traditional" hunting and shooting sports. You might want to look up the American Hunters and Shooters Association, for starters - they can probably get you in contact with a few shooters who think along your lines.

I can get along fine with the AHSA. In fact, I had a phone conversation with AHSA president Ray Schoenke a few days ago. You'll like him.

[Paladin]

117. If I Perceived That Only "A Few Chowderheards" Were The Problem...

...my guns wouldn't be gathering dust in a closet. The modern-day shooting sports have been overwhelmingly co-opted by the right wing. Best of luck in changing that.....

[SteveM]

193. Few chowderheads from my vantage point...

Paladin, most of the regulars in the "Gungeon" are not right-wingers. Sure, there are the interlopers as there are on any forum, but the regular folks here are/have voted Obama and Democratic. And my hunting buddies are the same way. In the field and on the range the blowhards stand out because there are relatively few compared to the rest.

I'm sorry you feel the way you do.

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

209. We're glad you are out of it too.

We have seen your temper here, it's probably not wise for you to own weapons. I'm glad you did it voluntarily.

David

[SteveM]

187. Clearly, you are wrong, but that was your intent...

I have never read where the "NRA will continue to fight to ensure that people like this can easily get any gut their little heart desires."

But you were a member, so maybe you have a source?

You have a lot of resentment/hatred toward gun owners, use shop-worn sarcasm to express it, and show all the ill-passion of a convert; but really, try to use some of that "common sense" so many here claim as their birth right.

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

199. Then you are aware this probably wasn't an AK-47 but a semi-auto look alike.

The mindset you subscribe to the NRA has also been the mindset of NOW and every journalist in the country. So what future law do you propose to prevent this tragedy? Keep in mind that ex con drug dealers aren't going to obey any law.

David

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

202. I'm glad to see you not contributing to the acrimony by not insulting people in your subject line.

Do I really need the sarcasm tag?

David

[NC_Nurse]

59. What was he ON? And how did he have a machine gun? Those are just the first

compelling questions that come to my mind....

[pipoman]

83. He didn't have a machine gun...n/t

[NC_Nurse]

96. Oh, well excuse me...an automatic weapon....

still crazy.

[Pavulon]

104. You are a victim of orwellian language from the first ban.

Firearms are classified by the ATF by function. The NFA regulated features in 1932. Sawed off shotguns and "machine guns" were regulated among functional things.

Firearms require a technical language, like medical care, it is used to describe very specific things.

Machine gun is defines as a weapon that fires more than once with a single trigger pull. These are effectively banned and only available to wealthy people. Machine gun makes people think of a tripod mounted water cooled gun from the movies. In reality the term covers infantry rifles like the M16/M4, G3x, SIG55x, and the AK platform that can fire in a fully automatic mode.

The assault weapon is a made up thing. It is a collection of scary features like folding stocks, pistol grips and flash hiders. Nothing about DIAS (drop in AUTO SEARS) is covered in the silly dead bill because it has been well regulated for 70 some years.

The basic comparison is of a MotoGP race bike or GT race car to a Honda liter bike or a Porsche GT2. Both are replicas.

Assault weapons are based on 100 year old technology.

[NC_Nurse]

106. I don't know jack shit about guns; I freely admit that. I do, however, think it's

a travesty that this *obviously* disturbed young man with a criminal record had one. Myabe it was stolen, maybe it wasn't.

This story upset me all day yesterday. I felt so bad for that family. To me, it's more about the insanity of the crime rather than the gun issue.

[Pavulon]

110. That is a POOR area of SC

drugs and poverty were probably involved in this. Crack dude thought he was going to have a home invasion and started shooting.

Very sad.

[SteveM]

195. I completely agree. (nt)

[pipoman]

124. In short it was a semi automatic much like many hunting rifles...

if you are interested in the difference between automatic/machine gun and semi automatic see my post #132 below.

[SteveM]

194. Still wrong. It is SEMI-AUTOMATIC. I and millions more have them (nt)

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

201. He didn't have an automatic weapon.

[LeftyMom]

62. Robbers knock now?

[aikoaiko]

89. Please do not take this as a defense for the murderous shooter..

...but many burglars do knock first. Sometimes it lets them know no one is home, and sometimes it allows them to see the big screen TV in the living room. And soemtimes, knocking is the beginning of a home invasion.

But like I said, it was completely unreasonable to think that children knocking on the door on halloween was a robbery.

[LiberalPersona]

63. What's an ex-con doing with an automatic weapon? n/t

[pipoman]

84. He didn't have an automatic weapon n/t

[LiberalPersona]

118. So what is it then, for those of us

that aren't gun experts?
Wikipedia refers to an AK-47 as an "automatic rifle" that has a full automatic setting.

[pipoman]

123. It was most likely

a semi automatic knock-off. These guns look like a real AK47 (which is automatic (one trigger pull fires until the trigger is released or it is out of ammunition)) but function only in semi automatic mode (one trigger pull for each round fired) much like many hunting rifles do. This is a common misconception. Often when MSM has a story about "assault weapons" they use stock footage of someone shooting a fully automatic weapon thus creating confusion. The 1994 assault weapons ban didn't have anything to do with automatic weapons, only semi automatic weapons which look like automatics. Automatic weapons are rather uncommon in the US. They have been heavily regulated since the 1930's and were further regulated in the 1980's. The 1930's legislation made it necessary for people to get a sign off by their local sheriff, pass a rigorous background check, submit photos and finger prints, pay a $200 federal fee and agree to allow unannounced inspection of the automatic weapon by the BATFE. The 1980's legislation made new imports or manufacture of automatics for non law enforcement or military illegal, this means that the only automatics which can be transferred legally are those in private hands prior to this legislation. The 1980's legislation took the price of an automatic AK47 from around $1,000 (or under) to $6,000 plus. So again it is highly unlikely he had a true (automatic) AK47.

[GaYellowDawg]

68. This is the reason why I don't think the death penalty should be totally abolished.

This fucker needs to be executed.

[Name removed]

73. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[aikoaiko]

86. NOT true, the reasonable person standard still applies in most Castle doctrine laws

that I've read. This type of "shoot first, ask questions later" was a meme created by anti-gun folks.

The case you reference, the Joe Horn case, was judged by peers (i.e., grand jury) to not require adjudication. If they thought he had acted unreasonably, then he could have been indicted.

[mmonk]

78. Sad. AK 47 huh? I suppose it was really important he had one,

second amendment and all, right? May the rest of the family find peace.

[Pavulon]

105. 7500 dollars in cash

leaving the house after the shooting. This was not the nra crowd. This was drug related in one way or another.

Drugs, incidentally, are BANNED.

[Critters2]

127. False dichotomy. Could've been druggies who blong to the NRA.

The two things are not mutually exclusive. Either way, the NRA certainly helped him get this weapon.

[SteveM]

197. Wrong again. Keep posting. You aren't helping "your side." (nt)

[mmonk]

130. I wasn't blaming the NRA for this person's actions.

But wouldn't it be better if assault weapons weren't available?

[benEzra]

147. Umm, no...

if you understand that "assault weapon" means "small-caliber, non-automatic civilian rifle with modern styling" and NOT "military automatic weapon."

Rifles (including those with handgrips that stick out) are consistently among the least likely of firearms to be misused.

http://www.fbi.gov/ucr/cius2006/data/table_20.html

Total murders.............................14,990..........100.00%
Handguns...................................7,795...........52.00%
Other weapons (non firearm, non edged).....2,158...........14.40%
Edged weapons..............................1,822...........12.15%
Firearms (type unknown)....................1,465............9.77%
Hands, fists, feet, etc......................833............5.56%
Shotguns.....................................481............3.21%
Rifles.......................................436............2.91%

[SteveM]

196. No, it is important that he NOT have ANY gun...

Do you know the difference between semi-auto and full-auto? Do you want to know? Do you know the capabilities of the weapon when compared with more "conventional" (wood & blue steel) guns? Do you want to know?

[DS1]

93. off the stupid fuck

we don't need him

[madville]

95. The sad thing is the AWB wouldn't have prevented this

The sad thing is the expired federal assault weapons ban wouldn't have prevented this and our party is going to expend a bunch of political capital to reinstate that worthless law. How in the hell do cosmetic features make a firearm any less deadly ? Same semi-automatic action, same ammunition, you just can't have a collapsable stock and a flash hider. There are enough Hi-cap magazines in circulation now to supply everyone for hundreds of years so that part about the sale of new ones isn't effective, a 30 rounf AK mag might go from $10 to $40 however.

The real answer is this guy shouldn't have been on the street to begin with. Passing worthless laws will not prevent drug dealers and gangs from getting or illegally manufacturing their own firearms.

[Deep13]

100. goddammit.

:(

No political statement. Just :(

[knitter4democracy]

109. PTSD or on a meth binge, most likely.

I can just imagine how difficult it would be to go from prison to "normal" life. He probably got the gun because he was scared someone would come after him for what he's done in his life, and when the kids knocked, that's all it took to trigger all that mess in his head.

Sad all around.

[Pavulon]

111. And now some reality for you all: CRACK DEALER

did the shooting. With an illegal weapon. Crack dealers shoot when they think someone is coming to STEAL their CRACK. Which is BANNED.
http://www.theitem.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20081101/ITNEWS01/811019997

edit: fix link

[knitter4democracy]

114. Very true. Can't you just imagine his fear, though?

Look, I'm dealing with PTSD these days, and it's a rough road. I don't think he woke up that day and said to himself, "I'm going to blow away a kid tonight and go back to prison." I am deeply sad for that boy's family, but that doesn't stop me from seeing how sad the situation is for the shooter.

Not many kids grow up wanting to be a crack dealer. Even in areas where they're more prevalent, most kids still want to grow up as something else. His life's probably been a sad one, frankly, which all culminated in him shooting a young boy to death. That's horrifically sad.

[LisaL]

133. Yea right. When I hear about a man killing poor innocent

kid who is out treat or tricking, my sympathy immediately goes to the man. How does the poor man deal with killing a kid? It must be sooooo difficult.
:sarcasm:

[knitter4democracy]

142. I said I was sad for the child's family. I am.

Doesn't stop me from being a bleeding heart liberal and seeing the whole situation, both sides, as sad, though.

[earth mom]

119. I could barely bring myself to open this thread.

As a parent this is just heartbreaking to me. :cry:

[LanternWaste]

120. Saddened... by not surprised.

Saddened... by not surprised.

With a culture of glorified violence, one of the highest rates of per capita gun ownership in the world, and our penchant for the use, justification and defense of mind-altering substances, I can feel saddened, but not surprised by this.

So sad that we revel in, and fight for a culture that produces this...

[SteveM]

198. What ever programs we enact cannot rest on a foundation of prohibition (nt)

[flvegan]

128. This thread has already lived up to my expectations.

Thanks, DU!

:hi:

[Marrah_G]

132. We could combine it with "eating is Politcal" and then start a subthread on pitbulls!

[Midlodemocrat]

138. It has surpassed mine.

:rofl:

It is teh awesome!!!!

[fourvahl]

137. That poor family, how horrible for them.

He must of been smoking crack. Idiot..

[TexasObserver]

139. meth head ex con with paranoia and a gun

Another Drug War success.

[benEzra]

144. Yup.

And the focus on the eeeee-villlls of rifle handgrips that stick out offers a convenient excuse to avoid the hard questions.

Like, why are our drug laws pushing the market away from relatively low-harm drugs like cannabinoids, club drugs, etc. and toward the hardcore stuff like meth and crack? And what do we do about it?

The outlawing of beer in the 1920's pushed the market toward harder forms of alcohol---a good deal of which was methanol-tainted moonshine. I'd say meth is probably the modern equivalent.

[Tejas]

166. There were payoffs during prohibition

That said, it's not like meth labs are THAT hard to detect.

[apocalypsehow]

141. Don't be mean to the poor gun! It was just doing what it was told - hosing down a kid with lead.

It's a victim, too. Poor, poor traumatized gun...*





(*Doing my best gungeon imitation, and, yes, this is extreme :sarcasm: for the willfully dense among us).

[RamboLiberal]

145. Slain trick-or-treater's dad says boy saved him

The parents of a 12-year-old shot to death while trick-or-treating said Monday they hope the man accused of killing him suffers for the rest of his life.

-----

Police said the suspect, Quentin Patrick, 22, opened fire with an AK-47 because he thought he was being robbed. The family went to the home because the porch light was on, usually a signal that trick-or-treaters are welcome.

Two of three siblings who went to the door with their father were wearing ghoulish masks. Their parents said the slain boy was determined to get candy first, so he was in front when the shots were fired.

"T.J. saved us that night," Grinnell said. "He took most of the shots."

When the shooting stopped, Grinnell said, the door swung open. Patrick stood there, gun in hand, and said, "Oh, no."

-----

Patrick, who is charged with murder and three counts of assault and battery with intent to kill, was denied bond Monday. He cried and wiped away a tear as the charges were read. He did not enter a plea and a lawyer has not been assigned to his case yet.

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/n/a/2008/10/31/national/a215407D36.DTL&tsp=1

Yeah, "Oh No" you fool! I do hope you're locked up for the rest of your life.

[Fumesucker]

149. At least he felt remorse..

Bush and the neocons don't even do that..

In my mind that makes the crack dealer morally superior to Bush..

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

210. Screw that execute him.