Obama

[guntard]

From the Guntards.net blog, though strictly speaking it doesn't really apply to Gungeon participants:

Last night I was at a bar I haven’t visited in a long time. There was a guy there who I literally have not seen in about three years or so, but he knew who I was. He was watching the election returns on the teevee and at one point he looked over at me and said, “It’s a bad night for gun owners.”

I told him I’m not sure. I suggested on the one hand, gun control has been a losing political issue almost everywhere except California, so the Democrats might let it be. On the other hand, the Democrats might feel empowered by their mandate and, remembering 2001, deliver a mighty “FUCK YOU” to Republicans everywhere and plunge into an orgy of legislation they would never have been able to pass under any other circumstances. I’m not sure.

But I don’t care. America’s gun owners are reaping what they sowed, and whatever one’s take on the issues there can be no question that justice is being served, narrowly, and it’s a righteous thing. For this entire decade America’s gun owners gave the Bush Administration a pass as they wiped their asses on the Constitution; initiated pointless, destructive wars; crippled our once-excellent armed forces; systematically looted the nation and, finally, threw the entire world over the brink into what may well be the worst global depression since 1933. But they made sure their buddies on Wall Street were taken care of, and that Paulson’s former colleagues at Morgan Stanley all got their bonuses.

How can any of this be defended?

Well, America’s gun owners defended it, again and again and again. And they continued in the last few weeks, even after the extent of the Republican wealth destruction and cronyism was exposed. After the War Leader shoved a $700 billion Wall Street bailout down our throats, they had the unmitigated gall to accuse Barack Obama of advocating “socialism,” whatever the fuck that is supposed to mean.

For the sake of the occasional rhetorical pat on the head – and no substantial enhancement or protection of gun rights what-so-fucking-ever – America’s gun owners would allow the War Leader and his Congressional cronies a free reign to bring this nation to its knees, economically, socially and militarily.

And the rest of America, sick to death of it, elected the War Leader’s nemesis, and a proven enemy of gun rights. Good!

Well, is there any question of how this happened? If America’s gun owners had an ounce of principle among them the wars and the looting and the mass abrogations of civil rights would have ended before they really got started. But there is no principle there. Obama was right, they are clinging to their guns out of fear, insecurity, hatred of that which is different and unknown; we understand that now from the vile anti-Obama rhetoric of the last two months. Not out of any real principle in the importance of civil rights for all people everywhere.

And now they learn what happens when you trade principles for rhetoric. You lose, maybe everything.

I was reading the LA Times today, and they were reporting about the election night jubilation in Chicago and Washington DC. Where America’s gun owners were predicting, with their usual idiot prescience, riots and mayhem whatever the outcome, there was mass joy – mass joy! – fellowship among tens of thousands of strangers in America’s most violent cities and tears of relief and hope. When was the last time any President-elect ever elicited such jubilant enthusiasm? FDR? Perhaps not even him. Will Obama deliver on the promise, on these hopes? Probably not in any concrete fashion, he and Biden really aren’t that much different from McCain, when you get down to it. But what he can do is heal this country, in our own eyes and in the eyes of a celebrating world fed up with Republican boneheaded arrogance.

If the Republican base, particularly America’s gun owners, will let him, which they probably won’t. I was reading Free Republic this morning too, where delusional wingnuts pour out their messages of hate and intolerance (characterized today by the success of California’s Proposition 8, on an issue that has absolutely no bearing whatsoever on the lives of the people who favored it). Reading Free Republic made me sad. Reading the LA Times made me happy.

I did not vote for Obama; I never thought he was the best man for the job (I haven’t voted for President since 1980) and he didn’t need my vote in California anyway, But I am ever so pleased with his victory, and though I think it is dangerous to have such a strong Democratic Congress backing up a Democratic White House, I find myself looking forward to the Obama Presidency as I have never before in my entire life.

We might lose many of our gun rights along the way. But it is no more than most of America’s gun owners deserve. And there are more important things in life anyway.

Like national self respect.

[Redstone]

1. Well, Jesus, yes. Yes, indeed.

Redstone

[Mojorabbit]

2. Nah

There are a lot of Dem gunowners and I am one. We just are not single issue voters.

[davidwparker]

3. Does anybody know of a case when guns were picked up outside of NOLA

after Katrina during the * administration?

[raimius]

4. When

does any group of law-abiding citizens DESERVE to lose their rights? That thought is disgusting.

National self-respect is more important than individual, constitutionally guaranteed rights? :banghead:

When will people figure out that politics and civil rights are not zero sum games? You do not have to sacrifice constitutional rights to get self-respect.

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

6. Well said. Welcome to DU.

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

5. Obama's not that stupid.

He won't push any gun control legislation. If he does we lose the house in 2010. That's not my idea of a good plan.

David

[benEzra]

7. Had the DLC not decided in the early '90s that banning guns was more important

than health care reform, economic issues, and so on, then some of those Hobson's choices faced by gun owners later might have been avoided. There is plenty of blame to go around, IMO.

And, as others have pointed out, gun rights vs. the broader progressive agenda is a false dichotomy. There is no reason whatsoever that we cannot have both.

[guntard]

8. Obama

There is no reason whatsoever that we cannot have both.

There shouldn't be, but in practical terms there certainly is.

Barack Obama is no friend of gun rights, I don't think that can be seriously debated (and before anyone jumps all over me, George W Bush was no friend of gun rights either; few national politicians have been). But it took a Barack Obama to emerge victorious before this country could regain its national self-respect.

I attack America's gun owners for not holding Bush's feet to the fire over the various ways he has wrecked this country. I hope the Democratic Party will similarly keep Obama on the straight and narrow. He has already disappointed by his endorsement of the telecom bill and the bailout, with nary a peep from the Left. If this blindness continues the Republicans will get their landslide, in time.

[benEzra]

9. There is a large difference between "no friend of" and "active enemy of."

My hope is that even though Obama does not like lawful gun ownership as it exists in the United States, he will not attempt to force those personal beliefs on the nation. Just like someone can vehemently disapprove of abortion for moral or religious reasons but still support the right of others to choose.

Here's hoping. And you are correct, if rank-and-file Dems do not keep the party on the right track (including keeping its nose out of people's gun safes), there will inevitably be another 1994.

[krispos42]

10. His record is anti-gun, that cannot be denied

however, there are circumstances that the NRA and the like don't mention. He was in the Illinios state legislative branch, representing an anti-gun district. As an elected representative, you generally have to give at least token acknowledgement of your electorate.


As a US senator, a national office, I don't believe he has done anything that could be construed as particularly anti-gun-rights.

[spin]

11. Well, I know 3 gun owners in my house who voted for Obama...

and not only are we gun owners, we have concealed carry permits (and we carry).

Will Obama push draconian gun control laws? Possibly, but I feel he has far more important issues to address. I suspect that he and the Democratic Party will take the position that individual states can set requirements on gun ownership.

Many Democrats in Congress were elected from states that support gun ownership. The leadership of the Democratic Party will be hesitant to propose laws that will infuriate gun owners. The party leadership will fear many Democrats would not get reelected to Congress if extreme gun control laws were passed. The Democratic control of Congress would be endangered.

Party leadership will probably push for another Assault Weapons Ban which will accomplish as little as the first. Already the sale of "assault" weapons is increasing and a new ban will just increase the sales even more. Most gun owners who want an "assault" weapon already own one. Another AWB would annoy gun owners, but many would continue to vote for Democrats if the Obama Presidency and his leadership solves at least some of the serious problems our country faces.

Of course, the Democratic leadership might try to ban the sales of all semi-auto weapons. The Supreme Court will probably find such a law unconstitutional. Perhaps Obama will have the opportunity to appoint judges to the Supreme Court that will favor such extreme gun control measures.

But the result of extreme gun control laws would be catastrophic to the Democratic Party. The NRA and the Republicans would use this issue to beat the Democrats over the head for years to come.

One reason that the Democrats did so well in this election was that for the last few years they basically ignored gun control. Therefore many gun owners felt free to vote on other issues.

Now if we could just get he politicians we elect to focus on taking the guns away from the criminal element. This would accomplish far more than any measures designed to limit firearm ownership by honest citizens. Crime would decrease, and the demand for firearms would plummet. True gun control!