Priest: Slain dad had taught boy, 8, to use guns, kills two.

[cabluedem]

Priest: Slain dad had taught boy, 8, to use guns

By FELICIA FONSECA, Associated Press Writer

11/08/2008

ST. JOHNS, Ariz. – A man who police believe was shot and killed by his 8-year-old son had consulted a Roman Catholic priest about whether the boy should handle guns and had taught him how to use a rifle, the clergyman said Saturday.

The father, Vincent Romero, 29, was from a family of avid hunters and wanted to make sure the boy wasn't afraid of guns, said the Very Rev. John Paul Sauter of St. Johns Catholic Church. The boy's stepmother had suggested he have a BB gun, the priest said.

Romero taught his son how to use a rifle to kill prairie dogs, Sauter said. Police say the boy used a .22-caliber rifle Wednesday to kill his father and another man, Timothy Romans, 39, of San Carlos.
The priest did not say how he advised the couple but said Saturday that the boy "was just too young."

Romero had full custody of the child. The boy's mother had visited St. Johns from Mississippi the previous weekend and returned to Arizona after the shootings, said Apache County Attorney Brad Carlyon.

On Friday, a judge ordered a psychological evaluation of the boy. Under Arizona law, charges can be filed against anyone 8 or older.The boy had no record of complaints with Arizona Child Protective Services, Carlyon said. "He had no record of any kind, not even a disciplinary record at school," he said. "He has never been in trouble before."

FBI statistics show instances of children younger than 11 committing homicides are very rare. According to recent FBI supplementary homicide reports, there were at least three such cases each year in 2003, 2004 and 2005; there were at least 15 in 2002.


More at:
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20081109/ap_on_re_us/child_charged;_ylt=Aguulp8R9xQ0NBLvYhLLu_ms0NUE

[IndianaJones]

1. a .22? did they stand there and let him shoot them multiple times? nt.

[Mojorabbit]

8. That is what I thought too

he can't have been that good a shot.

[Poll_Blind]

11. Actually, a .22 can be just as deadly- sometimes deadlier than a larger round.

  For instance, I'd heard in a number of newspaper articles (back in the 80's and early 90's when the mob killings were getting lots of press) that a .22 to the head was the round of choice for mafia hitmen because once entering the skull of the victim it would usually not have enough energy to exit but would instead "bounce around" inside the skull causing massive damage.

  Also, it depends on what the bullet hits, of course. Unconsciousness from massive blood loss and/or shock can sometimes happen in just a few seconds if serious wounds occur in a number of places.

PB

[IndianaJones]

12. I hunt with a .22 and would not use on anything bigger than a squirrel.

not saying they cannot kill, but it would take a damn near perfect shot...to two grown men...by an 8 year old.

I've had small raccoons walk away with 3 .22 bullets in them.

[Poll_Blind]

15. Placement and chance determines a lot. Also, different people react...

...differently to being shot. I don't think it would require a perfect shot to kill someone pretty easy with a .22, especially because it's very easy to unload a .22 and still keep the gun (especially at any kind of "close" range) relatively on-target.

  My brother used to be an undercover narcotics agent and he told me a story of a perp he was familiar with who had crossed the wrong person in a drug deal. The perp was shot at least five times with a 9mm, but he'd been shot a few of those times while he was laying on cement so some of his injuries occurred as the bullets ricocheted off the concrete underneath him and back into his body. The guy, amazingly, lived after going to the hospital.

  Placement and chance determines a lot.

PB

[tburnsten]

23. I shot a groundhog with a .22

Using the Aguila 60 grain subsonic load, it worked very well, although it was not the cleanest shot ever. It was sort of a gutshot, unfortunately, but the groundhog only made it about eight feet before stopping. Out of all the .22 long rifle loads, I would put the most faith in that Aguila load.

[Crunchy Frog]

2. Yet another disaster involving an 8 year old and guns. WTF is wrong with this country?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x3590630

[bossy22]

4. it was a freak accident

sort of like the UZI incident.....freak accidents happen....even the FBI said that these sort of situations are very rare


nothing is wrong with the country- its a horrible tragedy either way but its one that isnt normal....doesnt happen on a usual basiss

[Crunchy Frog]

7. Way too many of these "freak accidents" in this country.

[bossy22]

9. well i dont think you can say that about the UZI incident

that was the first time in over 80 years that a child was killed with a legal NFA weapon....and i think the 4th person in total in the last 50 years

freak accidents happen all the time

[SteveM]

25. "Too many of these 'freak accidents'"? Do you have data? (nt)

[cabluedem]

16. A:Too many guns and too many idiots who have them. nt

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

19. I don't think its proper for you to call this obviously disturbed child an idiot.

[cabluedem]

21. Perhaps I was calling many gun owners idiots for buying guns and letting thiers kids kill people.

But I guess you will do anything to defend your adgenda, won't you?

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

22. Well then you should have posted a more clear response.

You should also work on your spelling and grammar. My only agenda is protecting constitutional rights. I never will understand why people hold he Constitution in such disdain.

David

[SteveM]

26. Speaking of agendas:

You are posting about a kid shooting someone, an incident already described as quite rare, and say "too many gun owners idiots for ...letting thiers kids kill people".

Sounds like you have an agenda. What is it? In your answer, please cite specific measures and supporting evidence.

[trollybob]

29. "Disturbed" only because his father was an idiot,

not just a bad parent, but an irresponsible moron. It's too bad he isn't around to give his side of it.

[fed_up_mother]

3. Well, this might be our clue

"Romero had full custody of the child. The boy's mother had visited St. Johns from Mississippi the previous weekend and returned to Arizona after the shootings, said Apache County Attorney Brad Carlyon."

Kids just don't go and murder for no reason. Either this boy was abused, or he had sociopathic tendencies, which can form in early childhood when a child does not bond properly to at least one parent.

[ManiacJoe]

5. Other articles indicate that the

cops are looking into abuse possibilities. This might lead to a self defense claim similar to those used by battered wives. However, currently this is all speculation due to a lack of information.

[MannyGoldstein]

6. I Have An 8-Year-Old Son

Allowing a child of this age to use guns is incredibly irresponsible. Criminally irresponsible.

[Mojorabbit]

10. I was taught about guns

and shot them too with supervision at the age of 8 and I am a female. We knew the power a weapon had at an early age and learned respect for them. That was a different time.
Something else going on here.

[Poll_Blind]

13. I was taught to shoot by my great uncles (who fought in WW II) when I was 8.

  Never shot anything living, always targets. Always bolt action, out in the woods on family land in just about the most rural part of Louisiana you can imagine. I guess I'm trying to say the way they introduced me to firearms was as responsible as I can possibly imagine. I never, ever had access to the firearm outside of me actually firing it nor did I have any idea where it was stored (it was actually stored at an entirely different location).

  I think Americans, mostly, aren't trained to understand the responsibility which goes along with responsible ownership of a firearm. Or automobiles for that matter.

PB

[X_Digger]

14. Unsupervised, definitely. With supervision? Heck no.

The key to gun safety is healthy respect.

Respect comes from understanding. Understanding comes from training.

My first rifle (which I still have) is a bolt action 22lr. I was trained it's safe use when I was 8 or 9.

If you remove the fascination with firearms and replace with with respect, there's less of a chance of a child 'sneaking' a look at a firearm and causing injury. Notice I said respect, not irrational fear.

[logjon]

24. my dad's no criminal

yet from the time i was 9 i've known how to operate a gun. 22 cal ruger is what i broke my teeth on, and the first thing i learned before i was even allowed to look at it sideways was to never cover anything with the muzzle that i didn't intend to destroy. i'm gonna have to agree with fed_up on this one that here's something more to this than "OMG an 8 year old with a gun!"

[SteveM]

27. When I was 8 I was taught how to shoot responsibly. My Dad ...

was a good judge of character and development, and most parents are.

[trollybob]

30. Completely agree. It's mindboggling that they want to lock this kid up

In the state where I live, 8-year olds cannot be incarcerated, for obvious reasons that apparently they can't see in Arizona. I suppose if the kid shot himself, they would have said, "serves him right, shouldn't have been playing with guns". Apparently 8-year olds in Arizona are supposed to be proficient in both firearm safety and criminal procedure.

[jody]

17. I will withhold judgment until facts are know in this tragedy. Gun-grabbers will rush to blame

firearms as usual.

[Name removed]

28. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[trollybob]

31. well, unfortunately we'll probably never know the whole facts

because the idiot that let his kid have a gun is dead.

[aikoaiko]

18. Guns and kids: teach well, supervise well, secure well.

The facts of this case still need to revealed, but there are no scenarios that are good news.

However, it could be the case that the child was protecting himself.

[spin]

20. I bought my daughter her first revolver when she was nine. (n/t)

[trollybob]

32. Real Nice!