$1000 for a cheap romanian ak copy (semi auto side folder)? COME ON!!!!

[Xela]

Greetings gungeon,

I couldn't help but express my surprise to see the sudden increase in prices.

I voted for O and would do it again in a heartbeat...but I couldn't help but feel the pain of the price we are paying for it at some gunstores already (I'm in Tx).

If this madness continues, I may have to max my card sometime soon.

Xela

[msongs]

1. well your fellows are driving up prices lol. be sure to thank them all nt

[Xela]

4. my fellows?

You mean my fellow pro-RKBA citizens (a group of whom I'm a part of)? Or my fellow anti-gun politicians (with whom I have a lot in common with, except their stand on RKBA issues)?

Xela

[rangersmith82]

47. Way too much...

I just built my own

$250 Romy kit
$75 receiver
$50 worth of misc parts

Even if you pay someone $200 to build one its only $575.

My $400 aks are alot better than any old WASR.

[Citizen Number 9]

10. What about the manufacturers?

I'm not too happy with them. The evil black rifles I was buying at $849 only a few months ago are now $1249. I don't think labor and materials increased that much.

Local gun shops are doing FIVE times the business they usually do and SIX or SEVEN times what they were doing this Spring. And still, they grouse about Obama.

Sheesh. Some people will never be happy.

[gorfle]

24. Will a few months of sales make up for 8 years of dry spell?

Local gun shops are doing FIVE times the business they usually do and SIX or SEVEN times what they were doing this Spring. And still, they grouse about Obama.

Sheesh. Some people will never be happy.

They will have to make up a lot of sales in the next couple of months to make up for a potential 8-year dry spell. :(

[Citizen Number 9]

30. I'm not exactly sure what balances out

a "potential dry spell".

If there is no ban will they refund the excess revenues to buyers?

:think:

[gorfle]

33. It's possible.

I'm not exactly sure what balances out a "potential dry spell".

Lots of potential sales? :)

If there is no ban will they refund the excess revenues to buyers?

Nope. But given that such a ban is part of both the Democratic Party Platform, and part of Obama's agenda, I think it's a pretty safe bet that you will see a ban.

[tburnsten]

44. It isn't the manufacturers driving the prices

All market forces at work here. We have a president elect with a fairly strong anti-gun voting record, whose statements while campaigning show that he doesn't really know guns well, if at all, and who picked one of the architects of the 1994 assault weapons ban as VP.


He is much better than mccain under any circumstances, but honestly gun owners have some pretty sound reasons to buy now. Supply can't keep up, and so the prices are skyrocketing. I think the shop owners are probably unhappy about the potential future legislation none of us want enacted, more so than their happiness over the increased business.

[gorfle]

21. Market forces.

>well your fellows are driving up prices lol. be sure to thank them all nt

It's simple market forces. People see that part of the Democratic Party Platform is to re-instate an assault weapons ban, and people see that it is part of Obama's agenda on www.change.gov. It's simple supply and demand. People anticipate an upcoming shortage, so demand is increasing, hence prices are going up. Yes, "our fellows" are responsible for the demand, but it's the incoming administration that is threatening the shortage.

[jody]

2. Don’t worry they'll be illegal including those grandfathered in if gun-grabber puppeteers like Soros

get their way.

[amdezurik]

3. looks like tin-foil stocks will be good investments...

[SteveM]

52. No, Alcoa has laid-off thousands...

But where can you find a good economist when you need one? Or even a rational thinker?

How can some of these gun-control lobbyists profess the dangers of owning "assault weapons," then take actions designed to increase that ownership? Not by proposing yet another meaningless ban in the Democratic Party platform when the consensus is that even the mention of a ban will have political consequences to the Democrats ... and will spur sales of the very thing you want to ban.

It has been estimated that perhaps 15,000,000 people own semi-auto carbines, the type labeled "assault weapons" by the gun-control lobby. That number is greater than the number of hunters in the U.S.! And is growing by the hour as factories who make this type of weapon run 24-7.

The gun-controllers' arguments have such a tinny ring.

[tridim]

5. Does anyone really need a "cheap romanian ak copy"?

Those squirrels sure are crafty suckers. ;)

[benEzra]

7. I shoot competitively and recreationally with one...

they are excellent little carbines. They are functionally identical to a Ruger Mini Thirty, which has a MSRP of $894.00, so $1000 is very high but still within the bounds of reason.

http://www.ruger-firearms.com/Firearms/FAProdView?model=5806&return=Y

I didn't pay $1000 for mine, though...I paid $379 in 2003 (Romanian SAR-1). I could have gotten one for $325 at the time, but wanted to patronize a local gun shop and this one had a very nice finish.

[SteveM]

16. Beats an expensive one...

I don't use semi-auto carbines on squirrels. Do you? Check your state's game laws; you may be acting illegally.

[tridim]

22. No broken laws.. I feel horrible if I accidentally kill a bug.

So, no I don't shoot game. I simply don't like guns and I certainly don't enjoy killing animals.

[SteveM]

23. I figured you didn't like guns since you utilized the squirrel metaphor...

as a way of slapping at gun owners; pretty common, here.

The semi-auto carbine of moderate power (erroneously called both "assault weapon" and "assault rifle") is based on FULL-AUTO or SELECT FIRE "Assault Rifles" (the technical term for the military weapon). These carbines do not, of course, fire automatically. The semi-auto technology has been around since the late 1800s (I have a semi-auto rifle made in 1905), and is seen as rather obsolete in military circles.

All present hunting rifles are based on military designs, but we have so forgotten what these designs were that we no longer have a particular fear of hoary old satin-finished walnut stocks with diamond point engraving, and blue steel bolt-action metal worked by artists with a penchant for leaping deer, swimming duckies or scenes of "Venus at-bath" (Jack O'Connor). But these all derived from now-obsolete military rifles used in the Spanish American War, WWI and WWII. The designs were "retired" to civilian hunting, sport-shooting and self-defense uses.

Similarly, the FULL-AUTO rifles of post-WWII conflicts have spin-offs which LOOK like the real thing, but fire semi-auto. It is this INTENTIONAL confusion of the two with which the gun-control groups and MSM have made great hay in scaring the public.

BTW, I hunt (though I don't really get a charge out of killing an animal), and I have taken one deer so far this season. I see my role in that practice as the most ancient (and morally complex) activity of humankind, save maybe sex. My killing pales in significance to massive agri-business which not only kills off animals systematically, but extirpates even more from the land, for the benefit of commodity crops like soybeans and corn. My killing is more honest, I think.

[gorfle]

26. Are you a vegetarian?

So, no I don't shoot game. I simply don't like guns and I certainly don't enjoy killing animals.

I assume you are vegetarian?

[tridim]

27. I don't have a problem with others killing animals.

Especially domesticated animals that are grown specifically for food.

It's just that ~I~ don't enjoy killing animals. No hypocrisy here. :)

[Citizen Number 9]

29. Sometimes I wonder

what makes people so different on this sort of thing.

I don't like motorized trail bikes or ATVs and I particularly don't like people who hunt from ATVs, but I'm not trying to make them illegal. There's a group of gun haters, motorboat haters, you name it, who want to legislate against folks who do like to enjoy those "sports".

Actually, now that you mention it, I don't enjoy killing animals either, but I do enjoy hunting. Go figure.

[benEzra]

34. Perhaps because there is no concerted effort to demonize ATV's

Sometimes I wonder

what makes people so different on this sort of thing.

I don't like motorized trail bikes or ATVs and I particularly don't like people who hunt from ATVs, but I'm not trying to make them illegal. There's a group of gun haters, motorboat haters, you name it, who want to legislate against folks who do like to enjoy those "sports".

Perhaps because there is no concerted effort to demonize ATV's and portray ATV owners as dangerous, incompetent dolts in the MSM.

Which is not the case with regard to firearms in the home.

http://www.eiconline.org/resources/topicareas/gvfsip_ds.php

(Entertainment Industry Council guides for screenwriters)

# Consider reflecting the reality that homeowners often freeze up or tremble so badly when trying to use a gun in self-defense that they are unable to deploy it. Or show them as being too frozen in fear to even get the gun. (Which is utter BS. --bE)

# Where appropriate to the story, consider portraying a teenage girl threatening to break up with her boyfriend unless he gets rid of his gun – or a boy doing the same with a gun-owning girlfriend.

# Consider depicting the reality that women are far more likely to be shot by husbands or lovers than by an intruder. Odds are that a gun in her home will be used against her rather than in her defense.

# Consider showing bartenders or bar owners being prosecuted or held civilly liable for gun injuries caused by a drunken patron who is known by them to carry a weapon (akin to the prosecution of bar owners for traffic deaths caused by drunk drivers).

# Consider showing someone who is attempting to use a gun in self-defense being overpowered by the attacker who then uses the gun against him or her.

# Consider showing that even so-called "toy" guns, like pellet or BB guns or prop guns, can cause real injuries and even death.

# Give thought to starting the story after any gun violence has already occurred, and confine the plot line to the aftermath – detection, prosecution, coping of survivors, and so on.

# Consider occasionally having "junk" guns misfiring or jamming at critical times, as these guns are prone to do so after a period of use.

# Consider depicting people as feeling less safe, rather than more safe, when they find their neighbors becoming increasingly armed.

# Try incorporating statistics on gun usage into scripts by having appropriate characters, like law enforcement personnel, DA's and teachers cite them. For instance most people don't know that guns are more often used for suicide than homicide. (54% of gun deaths were suicides, according to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, 1999)<.li>

# Consider highlighting the fact that teenagers often act impulsively and the presense of guns may increase the likelihood that a transient emotion may turn into a fatal event.

# Consider having characters criminally charged for simply brandishing a firearm.

# If appropriate to the story, consider exploring a gun dealer's or a gun supplier's remorse about the harm done by someone to whom he or she furnished a firearm.

# Consider having a character use a gun in what he/she believes is self-defense only to be charged with murder or manslaughter because it's determined that excessive or unjustified lethal force was deployed.

# Consider having characters successfully use alternatives to guns for self-defense, such as pepper spray or mace.

# Try to provide role modeling behavior by showing friends trying to dissuade a character from arming him/herself after the gun death of a friend or family member.

# Consider portraying a gun manufacturer making the right decisions in choosing to design a safer firearm.

# Try making the point that having guns in the house may actually increase the possibility of home invasion robbery since firearms are an attractive target for theft.

And an agitprop mix of facts and abject bullshit, intended to motivate screenwriters into behind-the-scenes activism:

http://www.eiconline.org/resources/publications/z_picturethis/pt_gunviolence.pdf

Development of these guidelines and "resources" was, of course, funded by the gun-prohibition lobby...surprise, surprise...

[Citizen Number 9]

41. Google "ATV" and "foes"...

In any case, you don't work in emergency medicine, do you?

[gorfle]

25. Who hunts squirrels with them?

Does anyone really need a "cheap romanian ak copy"? Those squirrels sure are crafty suckers.

Who hunts squirrels with AK-47 variants? I've always used a .22.

[jeepnstein]

28. My AR

Can shoot .22's with the conversion kit installed.

The AR has it all over more "conventional" sporting arms when it comes to hunting. If you've ever spent a day in the field dragging a nice walnut stocked rifle through the mud and briers, you'll begin to appreciate the plastic stocks and parkerized finish. The light weight is nice, too. You can sling them easily, too, which leaves your hands free in the brush.

I don't hunt game any more but I still shoot varmints. The 5.56 round is better for that than .22 but it's nice to have the option of switching. If I were forced to pick one rifle and one rifle only that I could own it would have to be an AR15. Nothing else even comes close to being as versatile.

[benEzra]

31. You could use an AK in .22LR, I suppose...

they do make them (one is on my someday "wish list").

[akgirl]

37. I've hunted with mine.

A year ago, I took a 6 pointer with a homebuilt Romanian RPK (very similar to the AK, just a heavier barrel), 5 shot mag, with handloads. It has comparable ballistics wise to my old .300 Savage level action (except it was HEAVY, thus giving the deer better odds). While not the best rifle to go hunting with, if you're a good hunter (ie, know how to stalk a deer, know how to be patient, quiet, etc) and can get in close enough, a *decent* AKM/RPK knockoff (since they are not select fire rifles, they are knockoffs) is an adequate all around rifle that can generally be gotten inexpensively. Simple to maintain, fairly reliable, there *is* a reason about 1 out of every 5 firearms existing today is are members of the Kalashnikov family.

[old mark]

40. If you want one, why not - What the hell do you care what someone else buys?

[cabluedem]

6. Then why are gun owners buying something that could land them in jail?

If AW's are banned under law, is it worth losing your job, home and family, for a simple gun?

[benEzra]

8. Simple possession will never land you in jail in this country...

More Americans own them than hunt, and most would not give them up. Even California's registration-only requirement only had an estimated 10% compliance rate. Attempted confiscation would be a national nightmare.

Far more likely is something along the lines of the original AWB (which banned no guns but restricted how you could customize one if you didn't already do so prior to the law's enactment), or at worst H.R.1022 (which would ban the manufacture of the most popular guns in America, but guns already lawfully owned could be kept and transferred).

Gun owners are buying them as a hedge against another asinine ban that restricts you from getting a rifle with the features you want if you don't already own it. And since you are talking about the most popular civilian rifles in America, the pool of people in the "would like to own one someday" is quite large, and a substantial number of those are hedging their bets against a ban.

I don't personally think a new AWB will pass (I don't think the DLC/DNC would be so stupid as to attempt another 1994), but I got burned badly by the last one and will not be so naive again.

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

9. Not under the last AWB.

[bossy22]

11. laws can't retroactively apply

that would violate your right to protection from self-incrimination

[happyslug]

36. Its Ex Post Facto law NOT self incrimination.

AND it is in the Constitution itself NOT the Bill of Rights.

Article 1, Section 9 - Third Paragraph (Right after Habeas Corpus) of the US Constitution, Limits on Congress

(Here is the Second paragraph)
The privilege of the Writ of Habeas Corpus shall not be suspended, unless when in Cases of Rebellion or Invasion the public Safety may require it.

(Here is the third paragraph):
No Bill of Attainder or ex post facto Law shall be passed.

http://www.usconstitution.net/const.html#A1Sec9

I ignored the first paragraph for it debt with the importation of slaves (Congress could NOT restrict such importation for 20 years). The first clause by its own term expired in 1808, at which point Congress made it illegal to import slaves.

[423aaron]

49. Typically that is the case.

Ask someone who back in the '80s got into a fight with his wife if a law can be retroactive.

[jeepnstein]

14. Think about it this way.

If Free Speech is banned under law, is it worth losing your job, home and family, for a simple words?

[SteveM]

17. You know of anyone who is going to put gun-owners in jail? I don't (nt)

[Howzit]

12. It was less than $350 a few weeks ago here:

www.impactguns.com/store/ak47.html

Browse the different models - some of the Rumanian versions were down at that price.

[benEzra]

13. I saw some stats recently that said some sellers

sold as many AR's, AK's, and crates of ammunition the week of November 8th as they did in all the rest of 2008.

I think a lot of people who were putting purchases off due to the economy decided to go ahead and get what they were planning to, just in case. And word is that a quite a few of the buyers had Obama stickers on their cars; I think a lot of gun owners voted Dem based on other issues (economy, 4th Amendment), but don't entirely trust the new administration on the issue and are hedging their bets.

The Bradyites crowing "Now we're coming to ban yer gunz!!!" certainly isn't helping, nor is the continued MSM obsession with modern-looking rifles.

On the upside, there is now no way an AWB would pass the "in common use" test in Heller; prior to the current surge in purchases, more Americans already owned "assault weapons" than hunt, but that ratio is now tilting further and further in our direction. "Assault weapons" are not just mainstream, they are the mainstream, and the prohibitionist zealots will have to accept that at some point.

[akgirl]

35. Gun Show craziness.

I went to the local show yesterday, in part to pick up a rifle I had ordered a month ago, and also just to look at the insanity.

AK knock offs: 800 for Romys, 900 for Tantals. 20-40 bucks for mags that cost me 12 a month ago. 300 for one cruddy chinese drum mag. Did find a good deal on a Yugo AK parts kits (I'm an AK builder, so I never ever buy a fully assembled one. 100% legal to do, keeps me from having to fill out an FFL and I get the pride of work-woman-ship thing). Ammo was through the roof. AR-15s were around 1000+. All in all.. Utter, total, madhouse.

The thing what surprised the heck out of me was it wasn't only the typical gun show folk. Since I go every time they come through town, I know the faces. Lots of good PDX liberals in the crowd or at least the parking lot. Saw more than a dozen Obama bumper stickers in just walking to and from the car. Saw a lot of folks who were obviously first timers/not so knowledgeable (I spent 15 minutes explaining to a father and son why a VZ-58 is not an AK and can not use AK mags). So yes. Skery black rifles are without a question in my mind mainstream considering all the very mainstream folks at the show walking out the door with them.

[jeepnstein]

15. If you don't already have it...

it's too late. The prices will stay high for quite a while depending on what Obama does with imports.

Buy ammo for whatever you have. Stack it deep. I regret not grabbing a large lot of 5.56 a while back. Even after we pull out of Iraq we're going to be using a lot of ammo in Afghanistan.

I paid about $750 for a really nice AR15 a while back. If you could even find that rifle in stock somewhere now it would probably be going for almost $1,000.

I would suggest waiting to see what happens in Congress. If they introduce a ban bill, which they will, and if it makes it out of committee, then prices will rocket through the roof. If the thing stalls in some committee for a lack of support, which I suspect is going to be more likely, then prices will moderate. This time next year there will be quite a few bargains on used guns that have never been fired.

[SteveM]

18. I'm going to wait out the purchase "fever" and get one on the downside (nt)

[slackmaster]

19. Same here, but I am planning to buy more machine tools and metal stock

In the meantime.

[gorfle]

20. Woot!

I got my SAR-1 back in 2001-2 or so. I think I paid around $350 for it. One nice side-effect about Democrats in office is the value of my collection goes up! :)

[-Wolverine-]

32. $1,000

Really? Damn. I should sell mine.

[AtheistCrusader]

38. Eugh

What a piece of junk too. Oh well, I have what I feel I need already.

[streakr]

39. Just wait a while

and don't waste your money on these things. Good bolt and lever actions are available at reasonable prices as people are focusing on military style rifles. I saw a 270 Browning auto loader sell last weekend for 350; I couldn't get to it fast enough to buy it myself.

The rethugs racists who bought into the NRA marketing BS are going to be sadly disappointed when the terrorists DO NOT TAKE OVER, there are no race riots and the AWB does not happen. The economy will get worse before things improve and these deluded people will be selling their ARs, AKs, etc when it turns out there is and they need the $$. I'm thinking of prices about 60% of what they are now. The ridiculous ammo costs make it unlikely they'll go out and shoot for "pleasure"!

Keep an eye on those thieving bankers and financial types.

streakr

[Xela]

43. Well, it's early Jan...

And these things are going through the roof.

I saw some of these Egyptian copies around 300 about a year ago and thought I could always wait and buy one later.

Ha!!!

Xela

[Xela]

42. Post ban Maadi's

Post ban Maadi's: 750 (they were like 300)
Post ban Romak/Wum: 850 (they were around 200-300)

Out of curiosity I checked gunsamerica to see how Russian SkS were doing and lo and behold: 500-700 bucks.

Wow. I'm rich.

Xela

[iverglas]

45. I am sure we are all

very happy for you.

[gorfle]

46. They can be good investments.

An M16 in 1985 would have cost you $1000. Today they will cost you over $20,000.

[Hangingon]

48. The local gun store is doing a great business.

People are buying before the 20th.

[423aaron]

50. It's not just the gun stores.

I teach the HCP class in TN. My business has increased. For the last ten years I have put on average 25 people through the class per month. Since the election I have done 100 per month.

[Hangingon]

51. Yes business is good.

Wish the prices were too. I see a lot of people buying ammunition and reloading stuff. It is too bad so many people are worried but I understand why. Have you noticed the increase in gungrabbers on this board?