NPR debate- Do Guns Reduce Crime?

[Xela]

Just found out about this, I did a search and didn't find a post about it. Hope it's not a dupe.

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=96409853&sc=emaf

Xela

[jmg257]

1. Who cares? As long as they reduce crimes AGAINST ME!

Recent studies show that crime rates will typically change regardless "of guns"; there are much more relevant factors (like number of males age 17-25).

This one report, "An evaluation of state firearms regulations and homicide suicide rates" from a Univ of Pittsburgh group, showed that states with shall-issue laws have SLIGHTLY lower homicide & suicide rates then those without.

Another report: "The Public Health Approach to Motor Vehicles, Tobacco, and Alcohol, with Applications to Firearms Policy." added this..."Major findings: There was no statistically significant association between changes in concealed carry laws and state homicide rates. The finding was consistent across a variety of models."

[SteveM]

2. Have not seen this debate...

There are those supporters of 2A which contend that where concealed-carry laws are in effect, and where people have concealed weapons, the crime rates go down. Lott is a supporter of this cause-effect.

I am not convinced. The number of states which have passed concealed carry laws has certainly increased to a big majority in the last two decades, but no convincing model is forthcoming which can measure a drop in (presumably) violent crime rates caused by the passage of such laws. I see problems with developing a model for this kind of study: how many people (percentage of population) does it take before a "critical mass" of cause-effect is reached; how is this perceived by potential criminals (who are notoriously and proudly unedumacated); how do criminals adjust for the perceived threat; is there sufficient isolation from other factors (like economic prosperity); is there a sufficient history for longitudinal studies; etc. A real can of worms. SEE: the web site of Center for Disease Control and search for gun intervention studies wherein the executive summary indicates that intervention strategies (both pro-control and pro-expansion of "gun rights") have not been linked to any causal effect on desireable outcomes, like reduced crime.

The most convincing argument for concealed carry "shall issue" laws is not as social policy designed to ameliorate social ills, but as a way for citizens to better protect themselves; an eminently personal decision. I do think that having 2 - 3% of the qualified public armed with concealed weapons in areas like malls, schools and other institutional settings, may have a positive effect on reducing the threat of "active killers" (the nut cases Cho or Whitman), or perhaps reducing the carnage once it has started. But this is speculation. We should, at any rate, get rid of killer-lure signs like "Gun free zone."

[raimius]

5. statistics

I agree that there is no CONCLUSIVE proof of CCW laws reducing violent crime. Lott's study, while decent, had several holes (I'm taking that from the "experts" since I do not understand his models that well.)

However, due to the various studies, I think it is relatively safe to say "Shall Issue" CCW laws DO NOT increase violent crime, as the detractors suggest.

[Citizen Number 9]

3. Here are the results of the debate aired on NPR;

"At the beginning of the Oct. 28 debate, moderated by John Donvan of ABC News, 13 percent of the audience voted in favor of the motion (Guns reduce Crime), while 60 percent voted against; 27 percent were undecided. By the evening's conclusion, those voting in favor of the motion increased to 27 percent."

You can download the broadcast at the link Xela provided above.

[aikoaiko]

4. Thanks for posting this. I'll have to set aside some time and listen to the debate.

thanks.

[Indy Lurker]

6. Yes, that's why the police carry them.

The police use guns to arrest criminals, and therefore reduce crime.

[X_Digger]

7. Very interesting debate

If for nothing else, it was interesting to see the approaches of the participants. Those against guns used a lot of anecdotes, emotional statements, and few facts.

[ValhallaChaser]

8. I forget where I saw this on this forum...

but here's the quote of that post:

3017 - number of children 0-16 who died in MV accidents 2005
840 - number of children 0-16 who drowned in 2005
452 - number of children 0-16 who died from fire in 2005
207 - number of children 0-16 who suffocated in 2005
163 - number of children 0-16 who die from falls in 2005
...
102 - number of children 0-16 who died from firearm related accidents in 2005

[iverglas]

11. god you're smart

and such an original thinker.

I don't find it difficult to imagine circumstances in which children were in contact with motor vehicles. While their parents were driving them to soccer games, driving them to the beach, driving them to the grocery store, driving them to Grandma's house. And while they were crossing the street to school. That sort of thing. And goodness only knows how many child-vehicle contacts there are in a day. In a minute, for that matter.

I am, however, finding it difficult to imagine circumstances in which a child would be in contact with a firearm. Let alone as many million times a minute as children are in contact with motor vehicles.

If motor vehicles are 30 times as dangerous to children as firearms -- that is what you are positing, would I have that right? -- then I'd be expecting to see thousands and thousands and thousands and thousands of child-motor vehicle deaths in a year. If we were to take the child-firearm deaths as our base number.

I must be doing something wrong.

[hollowdweller]

9. Important thing is the rates don't go up

I remember when CCW laws first started getting loosened and critics predicted wild west crime. Didn't happen.

[rangersmith82]

10. Yea there is no blood in the streets

n/t

[jeepnstein]

12. Just goes to show you...

That lawful citizens obey the law. It's the criminals you have to watch out for. There's nothing to fear from a lawful citizen owning a firearm that would be considered a "fighting" gun.