Why doesn't Howard Dean just come out and say the Assault Weapons Ban Suck

[BallaFaseke]

?

Kerry and Gephardt are so desperate they are claiming Dean opposes the Assault Weapons Ban.

As governor he largely did.

He would kick GW's ass in a lot of states if he opposed AWB renewal. It's that simple.

I would vote for Dean ASAP.

[MrBenchley]

1. Beccause he wants to win

Most sane people do not want assault weapons on the street.

[juancarlos]

4. most sane people

Most sane people realize that the AWB is meaningless.

[MrBenchley]

12. Yeah, surrrrrrre.....

THAT's why the gun industry is spending millions to try and get rid of it....

[Superfly]

13. And that's why

YOU keep blowing an ass gasket each time the topic comes up.

[MrBenchley]

Gee, fly...

I'm not the one weeping and crying because sane voters don't want you to have such dangerous toys.

[Name removed]

18. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[MrBenchley]

24. Gee, fly

Guess you'rte telling us there's no-one but assholes in the RKBA crowd.

[Superfly]

25. Pop! There you go again!

Another ass gasket meets its maker. Bench, you really need to control that.

[MrBenchley]

30. Gee, fly....

I'm only in danger of losing my wind due to excessive laughter.

[Valarauko]

41. "He laughs well who laughs last"

A Russian proverb.

[slackmaster]

17. You still have not produced any evidence to support that claim

When challenged in the past all you have done is to show that the NRA gives more money to Republican candidates than it does Democrats. That's a big fat "Duh!", and does not qualify as evidence that the gun industry is spending millions to make sure the ban goes away.

And there is no rational reason to believe that the gun industry would care one way or another unless their motivation is a personal preference for individual liberty.

The AW ban makes no difference to the gun industry. With the ban in place for the last 9+ years, sales of AWB-compliant (i.e. post-ban) weapons have been good. Expiration of the ban will make no difference to them. The ban in fact encouraged development of some configurations that have evolved into highly accurate, affordable weapons for match shooting. The gun makers will certainly continue to make what we now call "post-ban" weapons because they are very popular.

[slackmaster]

14. Most sane people don't know an assault weapon from their elbow

Especially people who have never owned a gun but support the ban like scared little sheep because someone told them to.

[Valarauko]

40. Obviously, the definition of "sane" is

monopolised by the MMM.

What a pantload.

[library_max]

2. I don't think we're going to see an emphasis on that issue.

I think the guns issue hurts us politically no matter what stand we take and no matter who the nominee turns out to be. It's a classic "wedge issue" that divides Democrat from Democrat, by social class and by region.

[BallaFaseke]

5. Exactly right

As a rural Dem I don't want my guns banned and I want more than 10 rounds when I go hunting or home defense.

If you don't want an assault weapon, DON'T BUY ONE!

[truthspeaker]

6. I have a couple ideas

I have a couple ideas for Dean on this, but they rely on common sense and rationality on the part of voters, so they might not work:

1: Say he's opposed to the ban, and back it up with some hard research on how few so-called "assault" weapons are actually involved in violent crime. Say something about supporting gun control that works, not knee-jerk reactions.

Or

2: Weasel out of his previous opposition to the ban by claiming the federal ban as enacted only applies to certain weapons, whereas when he talked to the NRA in 1992 he was stating his opposition to a broader ban on all semi-automatics.

[el_gato]

3. gun grabbers lose elections

[MidwestTransplant]

7. I like Clark's position

Own all the hand guns and hunting rifles you want. If you want an assault weapon "join the Army, we have tons of em."

[BallaFaseke]

8. But what about the magazine ban?

The gun banners think that is the best part of the Assault Weapons Ban.

Why should I be stuck with 10 rounds when cops get 15?

[library_max]

11. Why are you trying to outshoot cops?

Just curious.

[slackmaster]

15. Classic Straw Man

A desire to have ammunition capacity EQUAL to cops does not equate to trying to outshoot them.

[Superfly]

16. And, similarly,

a desire to have more than the cops does not equate to trying to outshoot them. Having ammo does not one a criminal make.

[library_max]

19. Two things.

One, I was asking BallaFaseke, not you.

Two, why make a specific comparison to a cop's ammo capacity if you're not trying to outshoot a cop? Why, otherwise, does it matter how many bullets a cop can have? If ten bullets isn't enough, just say ten bullets isn't enough. What do the cops have to do with it, if I accept your assumption that we're not talking about shooting at cops?

[Superfly]

20. Ummm...this is a F-O-R-U-M

a place where EVEYBODY comes together to post ideas.

Get used to it, babe.

[library_max]

21. Choked on the second question, I see.

As for the first, I was trying to find out what a specific poster meant by a specific statement that poster made. I had the strange idea that maybe he would know more about what he meant than you would.

But you had to cry straw man. I was asking a question, not making a statement, so the straw man business is just a teensy bit of a stretch.

[Superfly]

23. How many times can we say "strawman" in one post?

Let's see...

That must be your new word for the day. You have one of those "word power" desk calendars, right? What was yesterday's word?

[library_max]

26. Still can't deal with that second question, eh?

Your responses are getting increasingly lame. "Straw man" was Slackmaster's term, not mine.

[Superfly]

27. Xcuse me?

Were you asking me or another poster? I don't want to impinge on your private conversation with somebody else.

[Valarauko]

42. Reference to cops

Simple: Cops believe themselves to be in need of such devices, because they want the best and most efficient equipment to protect their life. They know that in stress situations people tend to shoot FAR worse than at the range, thus, a lot of rounds is needed.

We want that equipment too.

[library_max]

45. "We want that equipment too"

Fer whut? I have a basic idea of what a cop's job description is and the kind of situations they have to put themselves into on a daily basis. What exactly do you face that requires that kind of firepower? Not in your fantasies, now, but in reality?

[DoNotRefill]

44. Why should cops have MORE rights than the rest of the people?

I thought we were SUPPOSED to live in a country where EVERYBODY was held to the same standard...

[library_max]

46. This doesn't make sense.

A doctor can write prescriptions. I can't. An attorney can practise law. I can't. All kinds of professions have "rights" not enjoyed by the general population because they also have education, training, certification, and insurance that the general population doesn't have.

In the case of cops, they ALSO have employment-related protection needs that you and I don't have. Cops have to account for each and every bullet they fire. Their firearms aren't a "right," they're part of the job.

[Paladin]

47. Bullseye, library_max

Well-said.

(Thought I'd get my kudos in before the routine savaging from the Guns For Everybody crowd commences.)

[library_max]

48. Actually, it seems to have shut them up.

Wonders never cease.

[BallaFaseke]

33. Most cops suck at shooting

It doesn't take much to outshoot a cop who qualifies just 1-2 times a year.

I like to have as many rounds as I can when I pratice so I don't have to frequently reload.

[DoNotRefill]

43. What a nifty paraphrasing of Himmler....

:eyes:

[Withergyld]

9. He wants it renewed

From his web page:
I believe the federal gun laws we have -- like the Brady Bill -- are important, and I would veto any attempt to repeal or gut them. The Assault Weapons Ban expires next year, and it should be renewed.
http://www.deanforamerica.com/site/PageServer?pagename=policy_statement_civilrights_sensiblegunlaws

[BallaFaseke]

10. But is that just to get elected?

It seems to me Dean knows the AWB is a farce.

[Withergyld]

22. I don't know

More from his web page:
I don’t think we need a lot of new federal laws. But we do need to do a few things at the federal level, like requiring Insta-Check on all retail and gun show sales. We also must do a better job of enforcing the laws on the books. President Bush promised to be tough in enforcing gun laws, but his Administration has prosecuted only about 2% of all gun crimes and they are virtually ignoring 20 of the 22 major federal gun laws on the books. That is an abysmal record, and as President, I’d make tough enforcement a reality, not just political rhetoric.

After that, I would let the states decide for themselves what, if any, additional gun safety laws they want. Just as we resist attempts by President Bush to dictate to the states how we run our school systems and what kind of welfare programs to have, we need to resist attempts to tell states how to deal with guns beyond existing federal law and fixing a few loopholes and problems.

http://www.deanforamerica.com/site/PageServer?pagename=policy_statement_civilrights_sensiblegunlaws

[library_max]

28. Excellent job of finessing the issue.

Dean's a smart guy.

[Upfront]

29. Because

We don't need assult weapons. Give me a pump Rem. any day. lol

[1a2b3c]

31. Politics

If a politician came out and said the ban sucks without saying it needs to be stronger and ban more guns, the uniformed masses wouldnt shit their pants and not vote for him.

[BallaFaseke]

32. The uniformed masses do not vote

Hence the Repukes have been in control of Congress since 1994- the year the AWB was passed.

By continually supporting this dumb arse law we have NOT REGAINED CONTROL.

Coincidence? NO!

The Repuke gun owners vote and vote.

[1a2b3c]

34. The uniformed masses do vote

and they have no idea what the AWB is.

[BallaFaseke]

35. Which is why Bush can go around claiming he supports it

I bet the NRA still endorses him.

[1a2b3c]

36. Of course

He has an R behind his name.

[slackmaster]

37. The NRA hasn't announced who it's supporting for Pres in '04

And it won't until after the Democratic Party announces a candidate.

Given that Bush's position is very similar to Howard Dean's, if Dean gets the nod the NRA will probably endorse GWB because it tends to prefer incumbents in a draw.

[BallaFaseke]

38. Dean opposes lawsuit pre-emption

The NRA has called Dean "schizophrenic".

[funkyflathead]

39. It's popularly supported

It maybe full of loopholes and worthless but most folks see it as common sense.