GUNS IN THE NEWS--November 11, 2003

[MrBenchley]

As CO Liberal sez:
Please try to adhere to the following guidelines, in order that we can have an orderly discussion of gun-related news topics:
1 - Feel free to add any CURRENT stories to this thread by replying to this message. In order to be considered current for the Monday thread, stories should have been originally posted to the 'Net on Saturday, Sunday, or Monday. (This allows for the fact than many people are off-line over the weekend, allowing the Monday thread to be a weekend summary.) On all other days of the week, stories should have been originally within the previous 24 hours, or provide follow-up to a story that was previously posted on the J/PS board.
2 - Both pro-gun and anti-gun stories are welcome in this thread, as well as gun-related editorials, as long as they're current. Please do not post links to stories or articles from a few years back that support your position.
3 - Bear in mind that any links to extremely right-wing sites (such as Newsmax, CNS, or the Washington Times) may be regarded as suspect by many DU-ers. If at all possible, try to find a link from a more mainstream source.
4 - Do not change story titles. In other words, if the Oskosh Gazette's web site runs a story titled "Two Killed in Holdup", the title of your message should read "Two Killed in Holdup". Don't change it to "Gun Owner Kills Two People", or anything else that changes the meaning of the story.
5 - If it's not clear from the title where the story occurred, add the city, state, or country in parentheses after the title.
6 - Comment on a story by replying to that story.
7 - Please direct your comments to the story, rather than attacking the person posting the story or any person responding to the story. In accorance with DU rules, any messages that appear to be personal attacks against another DU-er will be reported to the moderators.

[MrBenchley]

1. Police: Man, 21, Arrested In Stadium Shooting (TX)

"A 21-year-old Missouri City man was charged with murder in connection with a shooting at a stadium that left a 17-year-old innocent bystander dead, Sugar Land police said Monday.
Marcus Hudgins was arrested at his home without incident Sunday around 11:30 a.m.
Police said Hudgins was part of a group fighting with another group in the parking lot of Mercer Stadium, near the end of Saturday night's game between Hightower and Willowridge high schools.
According to authorities, Hudgins allegedly pulled out a weapon and fired at least one shot, hitting 17-year-old Marsai Murry. She was not the intended target, police said. "

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ibsys/20031111/lo_kprc/1871097

You might reccall Governor AWOL signed an idiotic law to allow Texas gun nuts to carry concealed weapons at stadiums, churches, nursing homes, amusement parks, etc.

[Spoonman]

24. Sorry, but you wrong

In no way should any logical person derive this as a supportive statement for Jr..

You seem to be extremely misinformed with regards to Texas concealed carry laws.

I just completed my CCW renewal, and the laws are very clear as to where you can carry.

Texas law forbids the carrying of concealed-weapons by permit holders in the following places:

In a place that derives more than 51 percent of its income from the on-premises sale and consumption of alcohol (bars, taverns, clubs, etc.)
Where a sporting event is taking place.
On the premises of a correctional facility.
On the premises of a hospital or nursing home (licensed by Texas).
In an amusement park.
On the premises of a church, synagogue, or other established place of religious worship.
At any meeting of a government entity.
On the premises of an educational institution.
On the premises of a polling place on election day or during early voting.
In any (state) government court or office used by the court.
On the premises of a racetrack.
Into the secure area of an airport (the area past the metal detectors or any inspection point).
"Premises" does not mean a street, driveway, sidewalk or walkway, parking lot, parking garage, or other parking area adjacent to a prohibited building or site.

[MrBenchley]

35. Who are you kidding, spoon?

"Last year, state lawmakers took their concealed-weapons law a step further, expanding the number of public places where Texans could carry weapons, including church, hospitals, and amusement parks. "

http://search.csmonitor.com/durable/1998/01/27/us/us.7.html

[Spoonman]

36. A 1998 article from CSMonitor? Gee try again

Only this time read THE ACTUAL LAW ON THE BOOKS!!!!!!

http://www.txdps.state.tx.us/administration/crime_records/chl/tchlaws0102.pdf

Pages 70 - 73.

You will be a lot more convincing in your arguments if you use facts!

[CO Liberal]

37. The Christian Science Monitor Is One Of the Most Reputable Publications...

...on the face of the planet. I'd tend to believe nearly anything they print, because they deal in FACTS. No agenda ..... just FACTS.

[Spoonman]

38. "Most Reputable Publications"

The article didn't even back up his statement!
Not to mention they were wrong!

[CO Liberal]

39. I'd Trust Anything Printed By The CS Monitor......

...before I'd trust anything from the NRA.

[Stilgar]

41. I trust the CSM over the VPC or brady bunch

But its still not as good as going to the actual Texas CCW law.

[Spoonman]

52. Hello,

Read it again, it wasn't from the NRA!
It's from the State of Texas web site!

Try to pay attention, I do not use ANY information from the NRA, it makes one look uneducated.
I leave that up to those who wish to call attention to them.

[CO Liberal]

53. Earth to Spoonman, Earth to Spoonman ..... Come In, Spoonman

I was merely making a point about the difference between a reputable organization (The Christian Science Monitor) and an unreputable one (the Nuts Ruining America).

[Stilgar]

40. so I guess its better to quote a 5 year old article,

than actually look up the CCW law in Texas, since it might have changed.

[MrBenchley]

43. Nothing's stopping you

[Stilgar]

45. Actually you are the one who needs to read it

I already knew it, as you don't have a clue to the Texas CCW law, you need to read it.

Spoon already posted the link the the Texas gov website and told you what pages to look at.

I am sorry he proved your statement wrong.

[MrBenchley]

44. From Spoon's own source

"This pamphlet contains laws created and amended as a result of the passage of bills by the 2001 Regular Session of the 77th Texas Legislature.The changes in the laws contained in this pamphlet are effective September 1, 2001, unless otherwise noted."

So in other words, the law's been changed since the Idiot Bastard Son signed it in 1997. Which means that what I said was 100% accurate. As usual.

[Stilgar]

46. Your correct statement should have been

"You might reccall Governor AWOL signed an idiotic law to allow Texas gun nuts to carry concealed weapons at stadiums, churches, nursing homes, amusement parks, etc."

But since 2001 has been amended to no longer include those places.
You do realize that what you said has no impact on the article you posted.

So your antigun stab was blunted and you dont like it. Like I said, try reading the law instead of a 5 year old CSM article.

[MrBenchley]

47. Gee, next time ask me

if I CARE what you think I ought to have posted.

[Stilgar]

48. Gee, next time post someting not 5 years out of date

to back up a flame statement that was WRONG.

[MrBenchley]

54. How long ago was AWOL Governor of Texas?

"a flame statement"
Nobody asked you to jump in and DEFEND this unelected drunk. And my statement was 100% correct.

[Stilgar]

67. This is a forum, I can post my opinions as much as you dont like it

"signed an idiotic law to allow Texas gun nuts to carry concealed weapons at stadiums, churches, nursing homes, amusement parks, etc."

Recalling an event that has nothing to do with the article you posted, leading people to believe that the current law allows weapons in those places which it does not, is WRONG!! Did he sign the law, yes. Did the state congress pass that law, yes. Did your comment do anything but provide flamebait. NO.

You see making any misleading statement under an article you did not write is flamebait. As bait I took it. You love to cause threads with flamebait posts, and can't stand it when you are made foolish by it. We knew a gun in a stadium is not allowed. By posting that statment either you didn't know it had changed OR were being purposfully misleading.

So you were either wrong for not knowing and posting or you were wrong for being misleading.

[Spoonman]

50. You obviously don't care

about facts!
Bush never signed that bill into law, and your article proves it!

[MrBenchley]

55. Chimpy signed it

but then he's Mr. Gun Rights...which shows what a pile of crap the whole argument is.

[Spoonman]

58. Yea surrrrre

Believe what ever you read from a bunch of right wing christian wackos.

The it doesn't negate the truth!

[Spoonman]

49. Wrong again

It has never been legal to carry a concealed gun into ANY of the places you mentioned.

[CO Liberal]

56. Yes, You're Wrong Again, Spoonman

Reminder: as Texas Governor (the highest position to which he was ever elected) Bush signed a law making it legal to carry a concealed weapon into stadiums, churches and even in the damn courthouse where people sometimes lose their children to a judge's decision.

<more>

http://www.bartcop.com/gunshow1003.htm

[Spoonman]

60. Oh surrrre..

I'm going to believe what so pin head wrote.
I have had my concealed permit since 1995, and have stayed current on the laws through renewal training every two years.

To add to this, by law, they are required to send out notification of changes to all permit holders.

I never recieved the update mention by MrB!

You and MrB are flat out wrong!

This has nothing to do with Jr george, but everything to do with the statement made by MrB.

Now go spread the manure somewhere else, your stinking up the place!

[CO Liberal]

62. Are You Ready To Eat Your Words, Spoonman????

When campaigning against Governor Ann Richards in 1994, Bush hammered her for vetoing a bill allowing Texans to carry concealed handguns. But then he made that very issue a centerpiece of his campaign which helped get him elected. After less than a year in the governor's mansion, Bush signed the concealed weapon bill, vowing to "make Texas a safer place." He also backed the NRA by passing legislation that made it difficult for cities to sue gunmakers.

In 1997, Bush signed a bill broadening the law, allowing concealed weapons in churches, hospitals, and amusement parks. Since that time, over 200,000 Texans received licenses to carry concealed handguns. State officials say extensive background checks on all applicants have kept nearly 3,000 felons, mentally ill applicants, and other ineligibles from getting the permits. However, since enacted into law, over 2,700 concealed-weapon holders have been arrested, including 27 for murder, 49 for sexual assault, and 8 for kidnapping. In one case, an Austin man with a permit chased a car burglar down the street for two blocks and then pulled out his gun and fatally shot him in the back.

http://www.angelfire.com/ca3/jphuck/Book4Ch.4.html

[Spoonman]

65. I'll refer you to post #61

The law is very clear - and MrBenchley is very wrong.

Defend him if you will, but the entire world can pull up the concealed laws for Texas, and will disagree with both of you!

[MrBenchley]

63. As usual

"The bushandguns Web site also addresses my other two complaints. One is that they spliced the audio clip from NRA Vice President Kayne Robinson. The whole quote is, "If we win, we'll have a president—with at least one of the people who's running—a president where we work out of their office." The spliced quote, which sounds unedited in the ad, is, "If we win, we'll have a president where we work out of their office." Although this doesn't change the meaning of the sentence, splicing is a creepy practice, because it alters reality in ways the viewer can't see or hear. How do you know whether the person you see speaking actually spoke those words in that order? But if you follow the URL in the ad to the Web site, you can find the whole quote. What the advertiser can't or won't tell you in 30 seconds of television, they have space to explain on the Internet.

Ditto for the ad's claim that Bush "signed the law that allows carrying those concealed handguns in churches, nursing homes, even amusement parks." Watching the spot, I thought that surely this was a typical advertising trick. I thought that the bill in question must have authorized concealed weapons in public places generally, and that Handgun Control had singled out three public places where viewers of the ad would find concealed weapons particularly outrageous. But the Web site devotes an entire page to documenting the literal truth of this claim by quoting from the legislation."

http://slate.msn.com/id/82514/

Hey, but are you surprised the RKBA is fighting to defend Governor AWOL's honor? I'm not.

[CO Liberal]

51. A Summary of Texas Law From October 2001? Gee, Try Again!!!

:-)

[Spoonman]

57. What?

Do you have a clue what your talking about?
Why don't you look at the effective date, and realize that it is the LAW! it was no different than the law in 1998 when I had to get my permit renewed, and in 2000 when I got it renewed.
The next revisions will be out in 2004, and it will still be illegal to carry a handgun in all of the places listed in MrBenchleys statement and article!

Gee try to make sense next time....

One more for the road.
The article also stated: "According to one study, conducted by the Violence Protection Center in Washington, Texans with concealed-weapons permits were arrested for weapons-related charges at twice the rate of the general population. The crimes included everything from murder and robbery to aggravated assault and kidnapping."

Which has been PROVEN to be a blatant lie as well!

So much for the right wing christian shit the monitor publishes.
What a bunch of hacks!

[CO Liberal]

59. This is November 2003, Spoonman

Two years and one month after that summary was printed. No guarantee that it's still valid.

And yes, I DO have a clue.

[Spoonman]

61. You sure are smart

But not when it comes to Texas Law!

Try again, If the article was printed in 1998, and assuming it was true, which it wasn't.
HOW ON EARTH could it still be against the law in 2001!

What did they just say fuck it, we not changing the law, we don't care what he signed?

Hmmmm, I kind of doubt that!

Now go learn about how Texas laws are passed and published. You'll find out that those laws are current, and that we just finished our legislative session with no changes to those laws!

Wow, you sure need to get the facts straight before attempting to prove a point!

[CO Liberal]

64. Be Sure to Read My Post #62

And see who has the facts straight.

[Spoonman]

66. Hint: It isn't you!

Hell, just go to the site to see what the law is.

http://www.txdps.state.tx.us/administration/crime_records/chl/chlsindex.htm

[Stilgar]

68. Summary of pre1998 ccw in texas and now

I have not found any legitimate place that says the law acutally changed.

A place of business that derives 51% or more of its income from the sale or service of alcoholic beverages for on premises consumption
on premises of a correctional facility
on the premises where a high school, collegiate or profesional sporting event of interscholastic event is taking place, unless the license holder is a particicpant in the event and a handgun is used in the event
at a meeting of a governmental entity (meetings or buildings), but according to Sec.46.035.i of the TX code, meetings of gov't entities have to post the 30.06 sign if they want to ban carry
physical premises of a school or educational institution; premises of a polling place
racetrack; secured area of an airport
courtroom
Public or private premises conspiciously posted with this sign




Title 10 Chpt. 46 § 46.03

A place of business that derives 51% or more of its income from the sale or service of alcoholic beverages for on premises consumption
on premises of a correctional facility
on the premises where a high school, collegiate or professional sporting event of interscholastic event is taking place, unless the license holder is a participant in the event and a handgun is used in the event
at a meeting of a governmental entity (meetings or buildings), but according to Sec.46.035.i of the TX code, meetings of government entities have to post the 30.06 sign if they want to ban carry
physical premises of a school or educational institution; premises of a polling place
racetrack; secured area of an airport
courtroom
Public or private premises conspicuously posted with this sign

[MrBenchley]

2. Boy, 9, shot during argument at home (NC)

"CONOVER - A 9-year-old boy was recovering Monday from an accidental gunshot wound to the groin he suffered Sunday as his mother tried to wrestle a Winchester rifle away from his father, Catawba County authorities said.
The boy, whom authorities declined to identify because of his age, was in good condition at Catawba Valley Medical Center in Conover, said Sheriff's Office Maj. Coy Reid.
But they know that at about 9:45 p.m. Sunday, the two were in their bedroom, arguing; the man threatened to commit suicide and had his rifle, which discharged as he and his wife struggled for it, Reid said.
The .308-caliber bullet sliced through the door frame and hit the boy, who was standing in the hall, Reid said. The couple's other son, a 7-year-old, was in his bedroom and wasn't hurt, he said."

http://www.charlotte.com/mld/observer/news/local/7232478.htm

Another family made safer by guns...

[MrBenchley]

3. Wife charged in shooting death (MO)

"Jackson County prosecutors on Monday charged a woman with shooting her estranged husband to death when he stopped by their home.
Wanda A. Bates, 42, of Kansas City, is charged with second degree murder and armed criminal action in the death of Christopher A. Bates, 41. The shooting occurred about 6:40 a.m. in the 1100 block of East 66th Street.
Relatives told police the Bateses were having marital problems. Police said the couple had been married a few years and Christopher Bates had moved out in recent weeks. He stopped by Monday morning to get a change of clothes.
Bates was a minister at Damascus Baptist Church on Prospect Avenue for almost 20 years, said the Rev. Alex Sipho, one of church’s ministers."

http://www.kansascity.com/mld/kansascity/news/local/7231473.htm

[CO Liberal]

4. Report of gun may have averted deaths (Wisconsin)

Yet another "law-abiding" gun owner we don't have to worry about .... NOT!!! - Wayne

* * * * * * * * * *

Report of gun may have averted deaths

Published Monday, November 10, 2003 10:46:37 AM Central Time

By ERIC LaROSE
EagleHerald staff writer

[e-mail]

MARINETTE -- A 43-year-old Mount Vernon, Ohio man was arrested Thursday after a cleaning person at a Peshtigo hotel found a gun in the man's room.

In a release from the Marinette County Sheriff's Department, Sheriff Mike Kessler said that by reporting her find, the cleaning person may have thwarted a possible double murder/suicide.

A sheriff's detective who began an investigation after the gun was found discovered evidence pointing to the possibility of two planned homicides.

The 43-year-old man, who was not identified, met a local 15-year-old person, described as a victim who was also not identified, via the Internet. What made the person a victim was not released.

<more>

http://www.eagleherald.com/gun1110.htm

[CO Liberal]

5. Additional Info From Another Paper (Green Bay Press-Gazette)

A 43-year-old Ohio man made his initial federal court appearance Monday on multiple charges involving the alleged sexual assault of a 15-year-old Green Bay girl he met on the Internet.

Thursday’s arrest of Kevin C. Jordan of Mount Vernon, Ohio, also helped thwart a possible murder-suicide plot revolving around him, the girl and the aunt she was living with near Peshtigo, according to investigators with the Marinette County Sheriff’s Department and state Department of Justice.

The alleged scheme was foiled when a cleaning crew at a Peshtigo motel found a .38-caliber revolver and bullets in a room registered to Jordan, federal prosecutor Brian Pawlak said.

<more>

http://www.greenbaypressgazette.com/news/archive/local_13142853.shtml

[MrBenchley]

8. Weird line in the story....

"The 43-year-old man, who was not identified, met a local 15-year-old person, described as a victim who was also not identified, via the Internet. What made the person a victim was not released. "

Uh, did being a 15-year-old preyed upon by a grown man make that person a victim, do you suppose?

[CO Liberal]

6. Gun Industry Group Won't Support Renewing Anti-Terrorism Law

It figures.... - Wayne

* * * * * * * * * *

Gun Industry Group Won't Support Renewing Anti-Terrorism Law

To: National Desk

Contact: Peter Hamm of the Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence, 202-898-0792

WASHINGTON, Nov. 10 /U.S. Newswire/ -- The leading gun industry trade association opposes legislation to renew the Federal law that makes it illegal to make or own a firearm that cannot be spotted by airport security efforts.

In an article published today by CongressDailyAM, Lawrence Keane, vice president and general counsel of the National Shooting Sports Foundation, is quoted as saying that even a bill sponsored by Rep. James Sensenbrenner (R-Wis.) to extend the "plastic gun" ban for 10 years is "anti-gun legislation that is irrational and based on false information." The current law, which has been protecting Americans from terrorists and other criminals since 1988, will expire Dec. 10 unless Congress acts to extend it.

The NSSF has been a leader in pushing for legislation, currently pending in the United States Senate, to give gun manufacturers and sellers sweeping immunity from lawsuits, even where they acted negligently to arm criminals and juveniles. Its members include Sturm Ruger, Colt, Beretta, Browning, Smith & Wesson, Glock, Taurus and other major gun makers. The legislation would also immunize the NSSF itself.

<more>

http://releases.usnewswire.com/GetRelease.asp?id=137-11102003

[CO Liberal]

7. Man Held After Woman's Murder (Tyler, TX)

{i]Another "law-abiding" gun owner...... - Wayne

MAN HELD AFTER WOMAN'S MURDER

A 35-year-old woman was murdered Saturday at her home just outside Wills Point city limits, Van Zandt County sheriff's officials said.
Deputies responded to a 911 call made by Timothy Dewayne Hathcock at 7:30 p.m. and found Michelle Ann Plevnic shot inside her double wide trailer on Van Zandt County Road 3434.

"We don't know how many times she was shot, but we know there is more than one wound," Sheriff Pat Burnett said.

Ms. Plevnic, whose maiden name is Countryman, was shot with a .22-caliber gun and was taken to the Terrell Community Hospital where she later died, Burnett said.

<more>

http://www.zwire.com/site/news.cfm?BRD=1994&dept_id=227937&newsid=10493200&PAG=461&rfi=9

[CO Liberal]

9. Cops Bust Black-Market 'Gun Run' Duo (NY)

This is from the New York Post, which is a fairly conservative paper. No "liberal bias" within a few miles of their editorial offices. This story drives home what I've been saying for months now - we need standardized purchasing regulations to prevent gun-running from one state to another. - Wayne

COPS BUST BLACK-MARKET 'GUN RUN' DUO

By KATI CORNELL SMITH
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

November 11, 2003 -- The feds nabbed two alleged gunrunners yesterday for allegedly peddling dozens of semiautomatic pistols on the black market - including one weapon used in a recent Staten Island murder.

Eddie Gravely and Badyr Taylor, both 24-year-olds from Staten Island, remained in custody on gun-trafficking charges after their arraignment in Brooklyn federal court. A bail hearing is set for tomorrow.

Federal authorities said they linked the pair to at least 65 guns that were allegedly purchased at two gun stores in Georgia through "straw" buyers and made their way into the city's black market. One of the weapons was allegedly used to pump one bullet into the neck of Rasheem Williams on Oct. 10, law-enforcement sources said.

Two men - Paul Thomson, 42, and Sean Berry, 31 - were arrested on murder charges last week for the shooting, which authorities believe was gang-related.

<snip>

Cops said they recovered an additional nine guns allegedly sold by Gravely and Taylor - all at crime scenes in Staten Island's 120th Precinct. Some of the weapons were allegedly used in crimes in the city within two weeks of being purchased in Georgia.

[MrBenchley]

11. The South funnels guns into NYC all the time

thanks to their lax gun laws...

From earlier this year:

"These charges mark the culmination of an eight-month undercover investigation by the New York Police Department's Firearms Investigations Unit and the federal Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives throughout which NYPD Detective Rodney J. Andrews, who was murdered with Detective James Nemorin on March 10, 2003, on Staten Island, served as the undercover detective. Posing as a dealer of guns and drugs, Detective Andrews purchased 30 illegal firearms on eight occasions for a total of more than $25,000. In fact, he bought two guns as part of this investigation just hours before he was assassinated by criminals unrelated to this case. This operation represents Detective Andrews' last work for the Department.

According to the indictment and previously filed complaints, McFADDEN and PICKETT used their family and friends as "straw buyers" in and around Sumter, South Carolina, to purchase weapons. In South Carolina, anyone with valid state driver's license can buy up to one firearm a month provided they are not prohibited by federal law from doing so. McFADDEN and PICKETT subsequently transported the weapons by car to 599 Quincy Street, Brooklyn, New York, where, between November 2002 and March 2003, they sold 30 firearms to undercover officers and agents."

http://www.atf.gov/press/fy03press/field/071003ny_gunindictment.htm

"Research by a Columbia University professor has yielded evidence that a large percentage of crimes involving guns in New York are committed with firearms illegally bought in the Southeast.
North Carolina is the No. 4 source in the country for guns smuggled into New York and sold on the black market, according to the analysis by Dr. Howard Andrews, a biostatistics professor at the university's School of Public Health.
"North Carolina is among the biggest source states for firearms not only for New York, but probably for New Jersey as well," Andrews said.
With a bogus driver's license to establish residence and a felony-free criminal record, a smuggler can show up in North Carolina and buy a small arsenal; Wake County allows five gun permits per application, with no limit on the number of applications."

http://newsobserver.com/front/digest/story/2812459p-2599686c.html

"Barnes has already succeeded in prying crucial data from a notoriously secretive industry. It's now known that 90 percent of handguns used in New York crimes are legally purchased out of state--half of them in Florida, Virginia, North Carolina, South Carolina and Georgia. Barnes has shown that gun companies fail to meet minimal standards for inventory control or tracking considered routine for other hazardous products, from explosives to scuba gear. "

http://www.thenation.com/doc.mhtml%3Fi=19990222&s=shapiro

[demsrule4life]

13. How about that guy from CO?

Or does he only arm NJ? :)

[MrBenchley]

16. Which one, dems?

It's not like care for public safety is particularly apparant among any members of the gun crowd.

[demsrule4life]

18. I'am in the gun crowd

And I spent my entire life in public safety, so you can guess where you can stuff that "any".

[MrBenchley]

19. So I guess your "guy from CO"

was all in your head?

Was it some weird dig at CO Liberal?

[demsrule4life]

21. Not at all

but it dont matter because you said it wasent the guys fault for selling those guns in NJ but the store was at fault for selling him the guns.

[MrBenchley]

22. What the living HELL

are you babbling about, dems?

[demsrule4life]

25. Hey, don't go off on me

I'am not the one losing his memory.

[MrBenchley]

26. Memory of WHAT?

Koresh only knows what you even think you're babbling about.....

[demsrule4life]

27. You must really miss that old boy

[MrBenchley]

28. Dems, you're welcome to whatever fantasy

you're peddling here. I'm not even going to try to pretend you make any sense.

[demsrule4life]

32. Just making about the same amount of sense

that you do on most of your posts is all.

[Stilgar]

42. Drugs get run up north too

but it is not from a lack of drug control laws, I am thinking its not gun control laws either.

Shipments are often run together.

[CO Liberal]

10. Stillwater Police investigate murder-suicide (Oklahoma)

I posted this story in its entirity, because it's so short. Why was this asshole allowed to access guns, especially since he's had FOUR protective orders against him in the past four years? - Wayne

Stillwater Police investigate murder-suicide

An investigation is underway into a murder suicide in Payne County. Stillwater Police say 37-year-old Albert Staats killed his ex-girlfriend Christina Pool, before turning the gun on himself.

Pool won a protective order against Staats a few days ago. She was shot in the head and chest. Police say Staats picked up the phone and told a dispatcher he was going to kill himself.

Three other women had protective orders against Staats since 1999.

http://www.kotv.com/pages/viewpage.asp?id=53706

[MrBenchley]

15. In Oklahoma

he could walk into any gun show in the state and buy a gun without a background check, thanks to the corrupt gun industry and the GOP. Also thanks to those two gangs of thugs, Stillwater couldn't pass a law requiring background checks for all gun sales, and no state background check is required for ANY gun purchase...just the Federal NICS check.

[CO Liberal]

12. Murder Victim Recently Installed Home Security System (NC)

This woman took steps to protect herself, including a gun AND a security system. But an asshole with a gun still killed her, and then killed himself.

I'm sure there are people out there who would defend the stalker's right to own a gun. I say he should have been kept as far away from guns as possible. - Wayne

* * * * * * * * * *

Murder Victim Recently Installed Home Security System

Durham Woman Killed By Probable Stalker

POSTED: 12:46 AM EST November 11, 2003

DURHAM, N.C. -- Authorities said the young woman who was murdered in Durham by a probable stalker had taken steps to protect herself.

Amena Khan, 23, wrote a letter to N.C. State police detailing how classmate Najebullah Naimee had been stalking her. There was also a "To whom it may concern" letter on her computer with more details.

Last Thursday, both Khan and Naimee were found dead in her apartment. Police said Naimee ambushed Khan as she walked in the door and shot her. He then killed himself. Naimee may have let himself in through an open sliding glass door.

A search warrant shows that Amena Khan owned a gun and that she and her husband had just installed a security system in their apartment.

[CO Liberal]

14. Cops want schools to do more to end student violence (CA)

We need to work on the root causes of violence. AND keeping guns away from those who should not have them. - Wayne

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Cops want schools to do more to end student violence

Plea made after Muni killing

San Francisco police called Monday for public school officials to intervene in the escalating violence in and around the city's schools, but educators say they've done all they can to protect students.

In the wake of the shooting death last week of a Balboa High School student on a Muni bus, Deputy Chief Rick Bruce said the district must take more responsibility for the growing violence among its students.

"The district has attempted to distance itself by saying this is a police problem, it has nothing to do with the schools," he said. "That's very disingenuous. By attempting to totally remove themselves, they are doing a disservice to the kids. They are pretending that the kids that go to school have nothing to do with the violence on the streets."

School officials say they have no plans to beef up security at or around schools.

"I don't see our schools are being in a crisis around violence," said Elois Brooks, the district's chief academic officer. "We believe we've done all that we can do inside of the building. ... It's like a parent -- the schools can't keep their eyes on students outside of that building."

<more>

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2003/11/11/BAGV42UT141.DTL

[MrBenchley]

17. Three Shot During Argument Over Divorce Settlement (FL)

"Three people were shot, one fatally, during an argument over a divorce settlement Monday morning.
Police say a man, his ex-wife and her brother were at the office of Fred Keller Trustee to discuss the division of assets from the divorce. The office is reportedly owned by the man.
During the discussion the man allegedly pulled out a gun and shot his ex-wife, killing her. He then shot the woman's brother, who wrestled the gun away from him and shot the man. "

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ibsys/20031110/lo_wplg/1870913

[MrBenchley]

20. Silver City Man Fatally Shot (NM)

"A man was killed Sunday in what police said is a drive-by shooting in Silver City.
Allen Powell watched the scene unfold from his back yard. He said Cuellar was shot within 10 feet of where his grandson sleeps.
Powell's grandson, Michael, also heard the shots and went outside to see what happened.
"I was scared that it was going to happen to my grandfather or something," he said. "

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ibsys/20031111/lo_koat/1869339

[MrBenchley]

23. Judge Denies New Trial in Concert Shooting (LA)

"SHREVEPORT, La. - A judge denied a motion for a new trial for the man convicted of killing a teenager in a gang-related shootout outside a rap concert.
McKinney faces a mandatory life sentence. McKinney's attorney, Frank Zaccaria, said he will file an appeal after the sentencing.
"I still don't believe the man is guilty of second-degree murder," Zaccaria said. "At the worst, manslaughter. I firmly believe he is innocent. I believe the evidence is sufficient. These weren't aimed shots; these were wild shots." "

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ap/20031111/ap_en_mu/concert_shooting_1

[MrBenchley]

29. Woman Shot, Killed In Vacant Lot (OH)

"A woman was shot and killed on Cleveland's east side just before noon Tuesday.
According to NewsChannel5's Joe Pagonakis, people working nearby heard gunshots near a vacant lot at East 38th Street and Cedar Avenue. They ran to help the woman.
The woman was pronounced dead on the scene. "

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ibsys/20031111/lo_wews/1872202

[beevul]

30. Liquor Store Clerk Kills Robber Who Attacked Her

"(EVANSVILLE, Ind., November 10th, 2003, 10:30 a.m.) -- An Evansville liquor store clerk is recovering from injuries she suffered while fatally shooting a robber."

"Police said 31-year-old Charles Dale walked into a Kwik Stop Liquor store Friday in Evansville and began beating the clerk, demanding money from the register."

"Dale fled from the store with cash and two bottles of liquor. He was later found in an alley with the stolen cash and bottles spread out around him. He was pronounced dead at a hospital a short time later."

"The clerk was treated for bruises and gunshot wounds. Police said she may have accidentally shot herself while trying to fend off the attacker."


http://www.wave3.com/Global/story.asp?S=1518250&;nav=0RZFJ1F1

[beevul]

31. Man says he killed couple in self-defense

"GAINESVILLE, Mo. -- A couple was found dead Sunday night when Ozark County deputies responded to a residence near Thornfield.

At approximately 10 p.m., deputies responded to a disturbance call at the Boyd Merriman residence just south of Thornfield on Highway 95, according to Ozark County Sheriff Steve Bartlett.

Deputies arrived about 10:35 p.m. and found Tammy Cantwell, 32, and her husband, Merl Cantwell, 40, both of Isabella, dead near the front porch of the residence, Bartlett stated. Both apparently had been shot.

Merriman said he was first attacked by a man he did not know when he opened his front door, and then he was attacked by both of them, Bartlett stated."

http://www.baxterbulletin.com/news/stories/20031111/localnews/619808.html

[MrBenchley]

33. Family's 'hideous' fate has friends, kin asking, 'Why? (AZ)

"One day after she walked into her daughter's Southeast Side home to find the lifeless bodies of Debra Breaux, 38, her 49-year-old husband, Michael, and the couple's 7-year-old daughter, Melissa, and 4-year-old son, Jacob, Hill was struggling to understand the scene still playing behind her swollen eyes.
How her son-in-law could kill his family and critically injure his estranged wife's boyfriend, leaving the 38-year-old man bleeding on the floor until he was found a half-day later.
Jerome Hylton, Debra's brother, remembered his brother-in-law never owned a firearm and had even refused to go hunting because he hated guns. But he'd bought the Colt .38-caliber revolver recently. "

http://www.dailystar.com/star/today/31111HOMICIDEFOLO.html

[beevul]

34. 'Make my day' law shields man in shooting death, DA says

"GREELEY, Colo. (AP) - Colorado's ''make my day'' law protects a man who shot his neighbor as he was trying to break through his front door, a prosecutor has concluded."

"Colorado law protects residents from prosecution for using deadly force against an intruder if they believe the intruder might hurt someone in the home."

"She told Griffin the man wanted to see him. Griffin put a shotgun on a table and went to the door, where Hammock threatened "to burn you out" if he didn't leave within two weeks, Dominguez said, citing the woman's statement."

"After Griffin closed and locked the door, the woman went to change clothes and heard glass breaking and the shotgun blast, Dominguez said."

"Griffin's girlfriend heard breaking glass and the shotgun blast, and Griffin, 33, told her Hammock was trying to get in the door when he fired, Dominguez said."

http://www.trib.com/AP/wire_detail.php?wire_num=323691