Dispute over TV leads to mans death

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

82-year-old man kills invader


“There were two knocks at my door,” Harvell said. “I didn’t get up when I heard the first one. But I decided to go see who it was on the second knock.”

As Harvell cracked the door open to take a peek outside, a man dressed in a black T-shirt, black jeans with a blue bandanna covering his mouth, forced his way inside.

Harvell said the man, later identified as Octavius Barnes, 24, of Sanford, Fla., shot him with a stun gun, causing Harvell to fall back on his bed. The intruder then pulled out what appeared to be a black pistol and demanded money.

Harvell pulled out his money clip and gave the robber half of the cash. When pressed to give more, Harvell said he turned it all over.

But Harvell then reached for his .357 magnum among a pile of papers on the floor next to his bed and shot Barnes near the stomach. Barnes fell over on the TV, knocking it onto Harvell, who fired another round, striking Barnes in the head.


http://www.tallahassee.com/article/20090720/BREAKINGNEWS/90720001/82-year-old+man+kills+invader+

[Buzz Clik]

1. Guns don't kill people -- televisions do.

[Hoopla Phil]

30. What an interesting choice of words. (link)

http://www.theindychannel.com/family/9828850/detail.html

[sharesunited]

2. The intruder then pulled out what appeared to be a black pistol??

Well was it or wasn't it? The intruder is dead, we should know the answer to this by now.

The forensics here are highly suspicious, and the story sounds contrived to cover for inappropriate use of deadly force.

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

3. That's hysterical. Yeah the 82 year old staged the murder of the 24 year old.

[sharesunited]

4. Certainly, to meet the requirements of a self defense legal defense.

Otherwise, why does the article hedge about whether the intruder did or did not have a pistol?

Likely because the police report seeks to introduce a subjective perception of life threatening peril to bolster justification for the homicide.

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

5. He was justified whether or not the intruder had a firearm.

He had already been tased, the assailant was 58 years younger than the victim. Justifiable Homicide in any State before any objective jury.

[sharesunited]

6. I'm interested in whether access to a gun emboldened the crime.

Does the crime occur without the gun?

Because as you know I am of the opinion that guns are the problem not the solution.

Because it is unavailing to argue that guns are needed because guns are out there. This line of reasoning is NRA babble leading to only one destination: The End Of Civilization.

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

7. Homicides involving firearms have been stable for several years.

They have been reduced significantly since the early 90's. Guns are often the problem, especially when they are in the wrong hands. Guns are often the solution when they are in the hands of the law abiding.

David

[sharesunited]

8. Homicides are one thing. Other crimes are committed and attempted because the goof had access.

[X_Digger]

9. _all_ crime is down..

Check the FBI's UCR crime reports- http://www.fbi.gov/ucr/ucr.htm

[Taitertots]

16. All while the number of guns keeps dramatically increasing n/t

[eqfan592]

17. Well, given that the vast majority of firearms used in crimes...

...are illegally purchased in the first place, I think you're right Shares. We should leave the legal gun owners alone and start cracking down on the illegal gun trade!! I'm glad you've finally seen reason on this!

[oneshooter]

10. "Does the crime occur without the gun?"

A person forces his way into your home, knocks you down and then hits you with a Tazer, steals your money,doing this while wearing a mask. At time is there any doubt that a crime has been committed?


Maybe in your world there would be doubt. In the REAL WORLD there would be none at all.
Wake up!!!

Oneshooter
Livin in Texas

[sharesunited]

11. Yes, a crime occurred. But did the criminal get his evil courage from his pistol?

Does he undertake to commit the crime unless he has access to a gun?

I maintain that this is always an important question.

[rrneck]

19. Does he undertake to commit the crime unless he has access to a gun?

No. Barnes did not change from a choirboy into an armed robber because he had access to a firearm. What he did is he went and got a firearm and a taser so that he may commit armed robbery.

You seem to be under the impression that the object itself compels people to do bad things. I don't think a twenty four year old thug would have any problem overpowering an 84 year old man. In this case, the firearm appears to have been an afterthought since the taser was employed first.

[Taitertots]

13. If you bothered to read the article you would know

That the suspect without question was not emboldened by access to firearms.

No one ever argued that we need guns because there are guns out there. We want guns because there are criminals out there.

[sharesunited]

14. I read the article. You tell me. Did the intruder have a pistol or not?

[Taitertots]

15. No, it was a toy gun n/t

[ProgressiveProfessor]

18. Don't you mean toy gun...which is what it turned out to be

[AtheistCrusader]

22. Initial contact was made with a stun gun or taser

so yeah, sans firearm, this crime was well under way.

[gorfle]

29. Of course it did.

I'm interested in whether access to a gun emboldened the crime.

Of course it did. Tools have emboldened and empowered man since the dawn of time.

[proteus_lives]

20. Wow.

You're just desperate to punish people with firearms, aren't you?

Better see someone about your fixation.

[Taitertots]

12. Are you really so willfully ignorant that you need to ask that?

Read the article before posting next time. It really makes you look like a complete tool when it is so obvious that you didn't.

[SteveM]

28. If it had only been mauve or chartreuse, we wouldn't be talking like this (nt)

[slackmaster]

31. It's irrelevant whether or not the intruder had a weapon at all

Because his entry was forcible and unlawful, this would have been a valid defensive shooting in any state.

[jimmyflint]

21. ha ha lol.....

I love happy endings.

[iverglas]

23. he who laughs last

probably won't be you.

:rofl:

[Taitertots]

25. At least Harvell is laughing n/t

[imdjh]

24. I find it disturbing that Brigham Shuler is the Sheriff deputy. nt

[JonQ]

26. Free advice: if you don't want to get shot

don't break in to peoples homes in a country that allows private ownership of firearms. Yes, even if you really, really want that TV, the homeowner may take offense to that anyway.

Go to Canada, Britain, or DC and have fun.

[spin]

27. Well there's always Chicago. They have a handgun ban...

I heard a rumor that they post signs as you enter the city welcoming criminals.

[libguy9560]

32. I'm all for gun control

But the intruder got what he deserved.