Murder-suicide in Berthoud Colorado.

[sharesunited]

Guns are often thought of as the solution to personal problems.

http://www.denverpost.com/breakingnews/ci_12897277?source=rss

[Katya Mullethov]

1. I once saw

Homer Simpson get a basketball of the roof with one . He later used it to clean up a bunch of nasty dishes , and to great effect .

[iverglas]

2. most often by men, when they perceive a woman

as a "personal problem".

BERTHOUD, Colo.—Police in Berthoud say they believe a man shot and killed a woman at a birthday party and then killed himself.

Investigators say Maria-Isabel Erivez-Arzaga was killed Wednesday night during a party for a relative at a Berthoud home. They found the body of Sergio Leon-Yanez a short time later in a motor home.

[slackmaster]

3. No, death was the solution

The gun was a tool used to implement the chosen solution.

[sharesunited]

4. You're correct that it is a tool of convenient killing.

[virginia mountainman]

5. Dead is Dead....

The means matters not......

[sharesunited]

6. Means of attempted murder which give the victim the best chance of escaping death are preferred.

Means of attempted murder which give the victim the least chance of escaping death should not be readily accessible.

[eqfan592]

7. If you think an attacker armed with a large knife or blunt object....

...is somehow less deadly to an unarmed victim than somebody who is armed with a gun, then you are living in a dream world. There's this perception that somehow stab wounds are less dangerous than bullet wounds. I'm not sure what moron got this started, but it's simply false. A knife can actually create a much larger wound channel than your typically handgun bullet. And a blunt object can kill just as well as a gun, and just as quickly. Also, these both have the advantage of making significantly less noise than your typical gun shot.

"Best chance of escaping?" A victims best chance of "escaping" unharmed from any sort of armed assailant is being able to dis-wade that assailant from wishing to maintain pursuit or attack them in the first place, and a firearm is much more effective at this than a knife or blunt object when looking at it from a self defense perspective. It allows the would be victim to maintain distance, and that is key. But the same does not apply for an armed assailant, as the ability to keep an unarmed victim at any sort of distance is usually not a necessity for them.

[sharesunited]

8. You can run away from a knife or a blunt object. You can't outrun bullets.

Access to guns is a real problem.

[virginia mountainman]

9. Tell that to the elderly, and disabled....

Not to mention Pregnant women...

[sharesunited]

11. It is these same infirmities which can get their own gun turned on them.

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

14. Those same infirmities which limit their ability to defend themselves.

How exactly should an 84 year old man defend himself against a 28 year old attacker with a knife?

[AtheistCrusader]

17. If it's some magical attack-ninja trained in the ancient art of gun-grabbing

I'd say they're fooked either way.

Otherwise a gun is probably the best option, for a victim that is in some way 'infirm'.


Edit: I do not like the 'infirm' argument. I am healthy, hale and robust. 6'2", 220lbs, fairly young, and I don't know if you consider boxing a martial art, but I have some capability in defending myself barehanded.

You know what I would choose to use if someone came at me with a knife or some other weapon? First and foremost, I'm going to shoot them. I carry, and I will use if necessary. As much as is required to make the threat go away. And I make no apologies for it. I don't care if it's a small knife in the hand of someone half my size. I am not required by any law or moral code to risk my ass for the sake of my attacker. Getting cut up sucks, and quickly reduces your capability to fight back. Just because someone might be smaller, doesn't mean they aren't a threat.

[rl6214]

18. Please show us

ALL of the instances where a persons gun was turned on them.


I'll wait...

[rrneck]

22. You seem to frequently

point out the ease with which a firearm can be employed, and yet now you seem to think that it is just as difficult to use a firearm as to outrun a thug with a weapon.

[Katya Mullethov]

25. Dont be so quick to discount

The tactical summersault .

[AtheistCrusader]

10. Silliest thing ever.

Person with a knife or blunt object will not pursue.
Person fleeing a firearm will run in a straight line, not jink, dodge, use cover, squint and flinch, and the shooter will have perfect aim.

What a lovely fantasy land.


Yes, the danger when confronted with a person who has a firearm, and means you harm, is somewhat higher than a person with a knife who means you harm, but only incrementally so.

See 'Tuller drill' and why a police officer will shoot a knife-wielding suspect at 21 feet or less, with little or no warning.

[eqfan592]

13. Speaking as somebody who evaded a bullet being shot at him while on foot...

...you're absolutely, unequivocally wrong. But that not withstanding, running away from an armed attacker counts not only on your ability to be faster than the other person, and in better shape, but also on your environment. Running from an attacker while in the confines of a home may sound good on paper, but is not effective in reality. Especially when the most common reaction is to barricade yourself in a room with only one entrance. If the attacker makes it though (and almost no doors in your average home are designed to withstand a determined attack) then you are SOL unless you have some means of defending yourself, and those means are at least a match if not better than the means of your attacker's ability to do harm to you.

[iverglas]

12. suicide by blunt object

A common occurrence where you're at?

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

15. Jumping from a building is one way to commit suicide.

[iverglas]

20. try to keep up, Davey

We're talking about murder-suicides.

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

24. Try some ginko for your memory.

Post #12

suicide by blunt object

A common occurrence where you're at?



Oddly enough I don't see murder/suicide anywhere in there.

[iverglas]

26. my usual condolences

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

27. My thoughts and prayers to you and your family.

[AtheistCrusader]

16. Around here, from the news, it's usually suicide by gravity

I suppose you could consider the earth a 'blunt object'.

[rl6214]

19. So is some of the wit around here.

[iverglas]

21. please see post 20

[AtheistCrusader]

28. Will you not allow me my gallows humor?

You did omit 'murder' from that post. ;)

[iverglas]

29. gallows humour?

Back to gravity then, I see ... if not gravitas ...


:rofl:


okay, not quite hilarious; I just had to get "gravity" in there with "humour" somewhere ...

[Glory89fan]

23. Good to see the 2nd amendment is working so well

But hey, a few thousand murders per year isn't much, right? (Sarcasm)

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

30. What do murders have to do with the Constitution?