Interesting Article In The Examiner

[Treo]

WRT CHP holders and crime

Gun control organizations claim that shall-issue concealed carry laws are a menace to society. For example, in License to Kill IV: More Guns, More Crime, Violence Policy Center (VPC) cited Texas Concealed Handgun Licensee (CHL) arrest data to insinuate that CHLs were violent criminals, and that these laws are a failure. However, such reports ignore the fact that our justice system is based upon the principle of “innocent until proven guilty,” because arrests do not prove that a crime was committed. Also, the VPC report made no attempt to compare CHL arrest rates to corresponding rates for the non-CHL population

http://www.examiner.com/x-2879-Austi...Asset-to-Texas

I especially like the picture that leads off the article

[meegbear]

1. Yeah, that FORBIDDEN image is really cool

[Treo]

10. I'm new here, Why is the image forbidden? NT

[iverglas]

you didn't copy the link

You copied text that contained portions of the link.

To copy an actual link, right click on the link and select "copy link location" or whatever your browser's equivalent is. Don't block and copy the text.

[GreenStormCloud]

12. It just means that there is something wrong with the link.

Instead of bringing up the web site, it brings up Microsofts "Forbidden" message.

[Treo]

17. Whoops sorry NT

[iverglas]

14. and this, of course, is where you copied the whole thing from

Google search result:

Oleg pic in the news - THR
3 posts - 3 authors - Last post: 6 hours ago
Looks like it IS by permission, nice to see! Found the link on NRA news, BTW.
http://www.examiner.com/x-2879-Austi...Asset-to-Texas ...
www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?p=5879429 - 6 hours ago


Google is offering me no cached version, and I am not about to click on that link. Oleg luvs me, but the feeling is not mutual.

[Treo]

19. Thats just oleg's gun forum

Where they don't like me because I'm too "liberal". Isn't that a hoot

[iverglas]

16. huh

http://www.google.ca/#hl=en&safe=off&num=30&q=site%3Awww.thehighroad.org+treo&meta=&tbo=1&fp=453f837c80fa8500

[GreenStormCloud]

2. I will try to post a link. It IS a really informative article.

http://www.examiner.com/x-2879-Austin-Gun-Rights-Examiner~y2009m8d28-Concealed-Handguns-Danger-or-Asset-to-Texas

If that doesn't work, Google: Concealed Handguns: Danger or Asset to Texas?

Edit to add: My link works. The article has two parts. Here is the second article:
http://www.examiner.com/x-2879-Austin-Gun-Rights-Examiner~y2009m8d28-Concealed-Handguns-Danger-or-Asset-to-Texas-Part-2

Concealed Handguns: Danger or Asset to Texas? (Part 2)

[iverglas]

3. wow, totally cool picture!

Yes, it's our own beloved misogynist right-wing piece of shit OLEG VOLK!!!

Why am I not suprised?

Will you be surprised to hear that his membership at this website was terminated involuntarily?

Aw.

[spin]

5. In the picture his finger is not on the trigger...

strange how I notice these things.

[GreenStormCloud]

13. I have no idea whom Oleg Volk is. In any case,

the information in the article is still valid. The article gives the source of the information quoted.

[iverglas]

15. oh, give me a break (ed.)

<edited - confused poster I was replying to with poster of OP>

Not hard to figure out who Oleg Volk is. What he is, is a piece of right-wing misogynist filth.

[spin]

22. I never heard of him either...

But Google rectified that.

I discovered a page called "Girls With Guns - Oleg Volk"



I'm at loss for words.

[iverglas]

25. what you didn't discover

are the pages that are now closed to the general public, after I publicized them here at DU.

The one of the naked female torso (I'd say "woman", except women generally have faces) with a wrench tastefully clamped on her nipple was a particular gem. ... Actually, I find that portions of it are still available, but I'm not linking to it this time.

and I'm not going to this thread:

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=67883

but it's quoted here:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=118x58295

How about Mr. Benchley and COLiberal and that nasty Canadian Iverglas who writes pages of legal jargan and has a total disdain for the idea of firearms ownership --- but hey ,they all want healthecare,housing,education as a fundamental right enshrined in our constitution. When I talk to a friend who votes Democratic I direct them to check out the great DU site. Some have come back with little to say except ---Is that what I have been voting for!!!!!

Shit, imagine that. People who think that healthcare, housing and education are fundamental rights of members of civilized societies. (I think we can take that "enshrined in our constitution" bit as hyperbole from a dishonest loonytarian, since I've never seen such a thing here. Not that I'd object. It's high time for third-generation rights to get enshrined.)

Oh, and don't miss my post # 1 in that thread.

[Treo]

33. Both those threads are damn near 6 years old NT

[spin]

36. I avoid sites such as the highroad.org...

I would imagine that I could post on those sites and many of my opinions would be popular since I am pro-gun and advocate concealed carry. I find that posting on the very conservative and pro gun sites lacks challenge. It's mindless and does little to expand your knowledge and broaden your horizons. Posing on DU is far more fun and causes me to think and research to support my opinions. And some posters have presented arguments which have led to a modification of my viewpoint.

But there is a also tremendous amount of anger on many conservative sites which disturbs me. Fox news, which I sometimes have on in the background, also seems to be beating the drum for hatred against Obama. Fox doesn't seem to realize that they are pushing the buttons of many unstable individuals who may attempt an assassination. Any such attempt would lead to, at the minimum, a catastrophe for the conservative movement and gun owners and possibly rioting and bloodshed all over this country. If the attempt were successful, draconian gun laws would be inevitable.

I also worry about the vested interests, who are upset at the direction Obama is leading this country, financing a professional attempt on Obama. The old "lone gunman" tactic might fail, but a supposed terrorist attack might work.

I could compare the political atmosphere in our country as similar to a Pittsburgh Steelers vs Cleveland Browns football game. The Cleveland Brown fans in the "Dawg Pound" are fanatical and not interested in watching a good game where the best team wins. They just simply hate the Steelers (possibly with good reason).



But politics is not football. True, it has been described as the "Great Game", but it seriously effects the lives and future of our country.

To attempt to sabotage healthcare reform in order to undermine Democrats and Obama is despicable, especially when it involves lying and deceitful propaganda.

I would like to see a return to the old days when Republicans and Democrats would work together to craft good legislation. Those days are probably long gone.

Post #1 on your link was interesting. While we differ on our views of gun control, I often enjoy reading your posts and watching you frustrate other pro-gun posters. You do have a sense of humor and you are at times very elusive. You often enliven a boring thread.

[Irreverend IX]

37. How do you feel about Robert Mapplethorpe's photography?

Do you think people shouldn't create art that frankly expresses their sexuality? Why are wrenches clamping nipples misogynistic?

[Name removed]

23. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Treo]

24. Nah, she's got the hots for me but I keep telling her I'm married NT

[Tim01]

28. Watch your step, dude. I'll fight you for her if I have to. nt

[Treo]

29. Ok you cna have her dude, she's aaaaaallllllllllllll yours NT

[Tim01]

31. Canadian chicks are hot. You should reconsider fighting me. nt

[Treo]

32. You wanna wake up tomorrow and chew your arm off go right ahead NT

[Tim01]

34. I think she should post some pics, before we continue this. You ask her. nt

[Treo]

20. I don't know who the Model is but it's not Oleg

And my membership at HIS board was likewise terminated involuntarily, so I guess we're even

[iverglas]

27. so

You got terminated, but you still read and copy crap from there to here.

Interesting.

[Treo]

30. Yeah, and I'll probably go to Hell for it NT

[iverglas]

4. "article in The Examiner"

"The Examiner" is a vanity press. "Articles" there are one person's opinion. Period.

Howard Nemerov

Another piece of right-wing shit.

http://gunowners.org/by-howard-nemerov/

Or, I dunno, maybe there is some other reason for consorting with LARRY PRATT.

Damn, maybe you have to have some secret gunhead code to see his blog. Turned my script-blocking off, and it's still blank.

Anyhow. Can't think of any reason why I'd care, whatever it had.


Congratulations. You're doing just fine here. Keep up the posting from pieces of right-wing shit, and you'll soon be a full patch member.

[imdjh]

35. That's some daddy there. Anyone got some smelling salts? I'm fixing to faint right here.

[spin]

6. K&R ...Lots of good info and graphs. (n/t)

[iverglas]

8. uh, yeah

Is this actually accurate? --


2007 murder rates (per 100,000 population, I'm assuming)

CHL rate: 2.42

non-CHL rate: 3.66

Non:CHL Ratio: 1.51


I'm lost there, and he doesn't explain it: "non-licensees committed murder at nearly three times the rate of CHLs".

A number is not a rate. 2.42 PER WHAT? Per 100,000 population? 100,000 permit/non-permit holders?

Is someone supposed to be impressed that permit holders committed murder at 2/3 the rate(?) of non-permit holders??

[spin]

9. A link was provided to a report by the Texas Dept. of Public Safety...

http://www.txdps.state.tx.us/administration/crime_records/chl/ConvictionRatesReport2003.pdf

The report compared total convictions in Texas on a variety of crimes with the number of convictions of CHL holders.

It could be argued that such a comparison is unfair because the number of people with a carry permit is a small percentage of the total number of people in Texas.

Yet as I scroll down the list of crimes and the number of convictions, I do notice that those with concealed carry licenses rarely commit crimes.

Is this amazing. Not at all. To get a concealed carry permit you have to pass a background check.

Perhaps the lesson is that people who can pass a background check commit less crime than those who can't.

[iverglas]

11. amazing, eh?

Perhaps the lesson is that people who can pass a background check commit less crime than those who can't.

And precisely what I've been saying for some time now ...

;)

[spin]

21. I know a good number of people with concealed carry permits...

and they all are careful NOT to do anything that might endanger their permit.

My son in law told me, "These permits are not easy to get and I'm proud of the fact that I qualified. I don't want to do anything to lose it."

When I first got mine, I was amazed at how I became more polite to, and respectful of assholes.

Perhaps there is something to the old adage, "An armed society is a polite society". Especially when it comes to those with concealed carry permits.

[iverglas]

7. oh, and btw

For example, in License to Kill IV: More Guns, More Crime, Violence Policy Center (VPC) cited Texas Concealed Handgun Licensee (CHL) arrest data to insinuate that CHLs were violent criminals, and that these laws are a failure. However, such reports ignore the fact that our justice system is based upon the principle of “innocent until proven guilty,” because arrests do not prove that a crime was committed.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=118&topic_id=239813&mesg_id=240437

Done and dusted, long ago.


Also, the VPC report made no attempt to compare CHL arrest rates to corresponding rates for the non-CHL population

I'm still waiting for the comparison to rates for the COMPARABLE population of non-permit holders/gun toters: people of comparable demographic characteristics (age, location, etc.) WITH NO CRIMINAL RECORD.

There aren't any?

Somebody needs to do some.

Maybe we could

http://www.askjohnlott.org/

!

Oh, dang. Looks like some secondamendmentheads aren't so big on that first one.

http://scienceblogs.com/deltoid/2003/08/0805.php

But we could still ask Mary Rosh!

http://www.whoismaryrosh.com/

[JonQ]

18. Gun grabbers often misuse these stats

to the extent that I'm having a hard time believing it's merely ignorance on their part, and not active attempts to mislead the public.

You see all murders are committed by CHL holders, if we assume everyone who commits a murder used a gun and every gun owner had a CHL then that statement is perfectly true.

Anyone who wants to dispute those points is merely an apologist for the gun-industry attempting to get us all bogged down in confusing facts, to take away from the greater truth: guns kill independently and cannot be stopped from killing.

[Euromutt]

26. A note on the arrest data

An awful lot of arrests of TX CHL holders were on charges of the "unlawful carrying of a weapon" variety, generally by cops who didn't fully understand the new laws.