Anyone familiar with the "Appleseed Project"? It seems to be RW, but

[old mark]

carefully avoids stating that - link: www.appleseedinfo.org/

They claim nationwide meets to teach rifle shooting and have a large web site.

mark

[brendan120678]

1. I know that there are a few different groups...

with the words "Appleseed" and "Project" in them.

Project Appleseed
Appleseed Project
The Appleseed Project
The Annie Appleseed Project

[TheWraith]

2. I've seen them mentioned elsewhere.

Never really taken the time to check it out myself; given the context that people put it in and the more wingnut leaning types who seemed to be promoting it on that forum, it didn't really interest me.

[GreenStormCloud]

3. They seem to be non-political to me. However,

I would suspect that the rank and file of the membership would be right of center. The organization appears to be trying to be what the NRA used to be a long time ago. Once they were about promoting civilian marksmanship and non-political.

I could be wrong about the Appleseed projects.

[DonP]

4. Long discussion about it last month (?)

There were some folks foaming at the mouth, claiming it was designed to teach the right wing how to shoot Democrats, gays, minorities and pretty much anyone they didn't like. All of it from the usual suspects that had never been to one or held a rifle, but knew deep in their heart what it was "really all about".

It's a program designed to teach basic rifle marksmanship and, while the organization and trainers are apolitical, many of the attendees are right leaning.

Several of us have been to one or more. (one myself) The training is good basic stuff on sling use, breathing, trigger control, sight alignment, adjusting for wind etc. IIRC you shoot targets at 100, 200 and 600 yards. At shorter ranges the targets are scaled down to reflect the correct sizing for the longer yardage.

If you can tune out the background rhetoric from fellow shooters it's good, inexpensive training and an easy way to improve your High Power scores or just learn the basics of high power shooting. Note, you can bring a .22 if that's what you have, but it's primarily aimed at service rifles from the '03 through the AR series.

There's one next weekend in our area. I cold use a little help on using the sling correctly, so I may go again.

Here it is:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=118&topic_id=228882&mesg_id=228882

[Treo]

6. I think they suggest

That you bring a semiautomatic rifle W/ 10+ round magazines because you'll need it for some of the courses of fire.

It's essentially a civilian version of the Army's BRM course and the rhetoric tends to be more anti-grabber than anti Democrat.

Of course, if you happen to be a grabber (like Iverglas) you will be offended

[DonP]

7. I used my Springfield '03

A bolt action is always a tougher challenge for the rapid fire segments of the course of fire (10 rounds in 60 seconds with a reload), but it's my most accurate rifle.

I thought if I can do this with the '03, a Garand or AR will be a piece of cake.

I'd agree that the tone seems to be more anti grabber than anti Democrat, but here in Illinois that's the same thing since every state office is run by a "D" and both houses of the legislature are controlled by a Democrat. Even the State Supreme Court is all Democrat I think!

I'd be happy to go to another venue - as soon as someone can point out the "All Liberal Shooting Range" in my area. Until then you just have to learn to tune out and keep your hearing protection in place between relays I guess.

[gorfle]

5. They are right-wingers, no doubt.

They were discussed in detail a month or so back. Iverglas dug up the truth on these folks. Yes, at first blush they look pretty good. But Iverglas dug up some old versions of their web site that pretty much leave little doubt that they are, at best, anti-Democrat.

Edit to add past thread on this subject:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=118x228882

[old mark]

8. I have no axe to grind either way, but anything Iverglas says is

suspect - even ridiculous - to me; I don't believe a word she spouts.

BUT - they strike me as RW behind a mask - they make me nervous, seem like a real action group to fulfill the Very Right's ideas about civil war in the US....all that shit about "bailing out the sinking ship", etc...

I am a pro-gun, gun owning Democrat, but these folks don't seem like my kind of people at all.

mark

[gorfle]

9. She provided citations.

Iverglas is often incorrect in her assertions, but the data she provides is usually accurate.

In this case, she provided pretty definitive proof that the Appleseed group is, at best, anti-Democrat.

Now to be fair, some of the anti-Democrat things she found they said were no longer on the current version of their web page, and I got the impression that they are trying to clean up their act and at least appear to be apolitical. But I think at heart they are fairly right-wing.

Feel free to slog through the post I linked to to see for yourself.

[Treo]

10. Appleseed group

the Appleseed group is, at best, anti-Democrat.
Can you say that knowing that participants here are members? Any organization is the sum of it's members but that doesn't mean the leadership agrees W/ the members individual political stance. If anything I think they're more anti grabber than anti democrat. It's just that alot of Democrats are grabbers ( or more accurately a lot of grabbers happen to be Democrats)

[AtheistCrusader]

13. I know some of the members through co-workers.

The members are STRONGLY political. You can go to one. They are very welcoming of visitors. The appleseed material is pretty a-political, but the peopel in attendance will be chock full of teabaggers, vaxxers, birthers and everything else.

[gorfle]

17. Of course.

Can you say that knowing that participants here are members? Any organization is the sum of it's members but that doesn't mean the leadership agrees W/ the members individual political stance. If anything I think they're more anti grabber than anti democrat. It's just that alot of Democrats are grabbers ( or more accurately a lot of grabbers happen to be Democrats)

Yes, it is certainly true that Republicans tend to be more firearm friendly than Democrats, and consequently it is of no surprise to me that most firearm owners are right-leaning.

Nonetheless, Iverglas posted enough citations about the group to make me suspicious of associating with them.

As I said, it did appear that they were making changes to their web presence to be more politically neutral, which I was glad to see.

[old mark]

14. Thanks for the effort - I also believe they are RWer's, I was just shocked

by the evident size of the organization, and I am now wondering how many Dems are taking advantage of their training to improve their skills.

I regret that I did not see the earlier thread here - I just found the organizations's site yesterday whild looking for some information on rifle shooting.

Thanks again for all the information.

mark

[Francis Marion]

11. Want to affect the program? Participate, don't speculate.

The program is open to anybody who wants to learn, or better yet, teach, heritage and marksmanship. Political viewpoints are encouraged to be kept private, and out of the curriculum. I for one won't talk any politics save 18th century Whig and Tory at Appleseed events.
Any Liberal-minded, Democrat-leaning person is WELCOME to add to, inform, and improve, the Appleseed effort. If you, as gun owning, second-amendment affirming Democrats refrain from lending your viewpoint, expertise, and time to the program, then our nation, this program, and everybody's viewpoints suffer the lack. If Appleseed had been started by a Democrat-leaning bunch, you'd shake your head at your "Right" neighbors who base their negative impression of your effort not on its content, but upon your assumed personal politics.

If you sit out Appleseed, as Democrats, you will by default assure that other political persuasions fill the void your absence creates.

This is entirely unnecessary, and in my view, the Bill of Rights transcends any political barrier or rancor borne of other battles on other topics. Challenge, and alter and improve by your participation, the thrust of the program.

We must be Americans first, and political creatures secondly, if at all.

What you will find in Appleseed is precisely what you, and your friends, choose to make of it by virtue or your participation.

I do not teach or filter by political affiliations; I teach Americans.

We're better off working together than against one another in a Bill of Rights affirming program. I don't care who started it if its membership and participation are open to all.

[AtheistCrusader]

12. Appleseed is a-political, but attracts a very strong far right following.

Dunno if you've been to a range or gun store lately, but the appleseed folks are the ones that actually go play army in the forest with their tacticlol rifles, and playskool canteens.

The members are VERY political.

[Tim01]

15. Almost all gun groups tend to be right wing.

Of course it isn't surprising. And it won't change until dem leaders support 2nd amendment instead of pushing to ban guns.
Some gun groups are very openly hostile towards dems based entirely on dems history on guns.

[JonQ]

16. I wonder why a pro-gun groups would be hostile

to a party that routinely puts forth ridiculous gun control legislature.