Former VA Governor refuses to endorse fellow Democrat Creigh Deeds, cites gun laws as a reason

[derby378]

From Wilder's statement to the press:

In my conversations with the people across the state, I have not encountered anyone who has listed as their priority the need for them to have more handguns. The present law permits anyone of sufficient age, who is not a felon, to be able to buy one gun a month; twelve a year, twenty four a year for couples etc..

Mr. Deeds thinks that's not enough and signed a pledge to repeal that law.

This action would allow the truck loads of guns to come back in exchange for drugs from those Northeastern states where gun laws are more stringent. This law was put on the books by Democrats and Republicans because they had seen where those guns go to in our cities and suburban areas where the violence occurs. Partly because of that law, as Mayor, I was able to have the lowest crime rate in our capital city of Richmond in 30 years.

I do not see how endorsing a proposal to have more handguns brought into our cities and suburban areas qualifies as any type of urban renewal plan.

The full statement and an accompanying news article can be found here:

http://www.wvec.com/news/topstories/stories/wvec_local_092409_.1b032748e.html

[MNDemNY]

1. Looks to my like Gov. Wilder just did Mr. Deeds a real solid!

[Treo]

2. Well, of course

Because we all know that criminals who aren't legally allowed to own firearms anyway, would be certain to obey the one gun a month law.

[PavePusher]

3. Wilder is all over the map on this one.

"Furthermore, In my conversations with the people across the state, I have not encountered anyone who has listed as their priority the need for them to have more handguns."

Rights are not predicated on "need".



"The present law permits anyone of sufficient age, who is not a felon, to be able to buy one gun a month; twelve a year, twenty four a year for couples etc..."

And you have proof that this stupid law has lowered the crime rate? Where? If all out bans don't manage that magic trick, how is a partial limitation going to do it? I don't see the logic...



"Mr. Deeds thinks that's not enough and signed a pledge to repeal that law."

Good for him. "..shall not be infringed." Not to difficult for this well-read college drop-out to understand, why is it so impenetrable for most politicians?



"This action would allow the truck loads of guns to come back in exchange for drugs from those Northeastern states where gun laws are more stringent. This law was put on the books by Democrats and Republicans because they had seen where those guns go to in our cities and suburban areas where the violence occurs. Partly because of that law, as Mayor, I was able to have the lowest crime rate in our capital city of Richmond in 30 years."

Again, where's the proof? Just because you claim it, don't neccesarily make it so.

[biermeister]

4. My governor (NJ) just signed a similar bill and

lost my vote.

[Euromutt]

5. Admittedly, VA's "one handgun a month" law did cut down on straw purchasing

Unfortunately, but predictably, the arms traffickers simply started getting their straw purchases done in the Carolinas, Georgia and Tennessee, which did not yet have "one handgun a month" laws. Very simply, there's enough of a profit margin in trafficking firearms that you can move them from quite a long way from the north-eastern states and still make a profit. And even if Bloomberg managed to cajole every state in the lower 48 into adopting a "one handgun a month" law, traffickers would find ways around them.

It just illustrates once again that the real is problem is not availability of firearms per se, but the criminal demand for them. As long as criminals want guns, somebody will find a way to supply them.

Essentially, all this law achieves is that it enables the Virginia state government to respond to Bloomberg's griping with "hey, we did what you wanted."

[biermeister]

6. source?

[Travis_0004]

7. How about 5 guns a month?

How many guns does the average tracker buy a month.

I would like to see this data. Why not change it to a 5 handgun a month law. This would not affect many citizens, yet should still limit trafficking. At least allow 2.

(I'm not for either one, but its better than allowing one.) I know I've bought 2 handguns at the same time before, so one a month is a big inconvenience for some people.

[Euromutt]

8. Polsby, D.D. "Firearms Costs, Firearms Benefits and the Limits of Knowledge"

Originally published in the Journal of Criminal Law and Criminology (Northwestern), vol. 86, no. 1, 1995: 207.
Here's a link to the full article: http://www.saf.org/LawReviews/PolsbyFirearmCosts.htm
Money quote:

Several years ago it was widely noticed that many of the guns seized from criminals by Washington, D.C., police had originally been procured in Virginia. Public indignation led to Virginia enacting a law that would allow only one gun per month to be purchased legally by a given individual.

This exercise damaged the Capital's illicit gun market little if at all; the gun runners simply moved a few states south, to Georgia, where no such rationing is practiced. Of course it is easy to turn this observation into a plea for Georgia now to do something (which would move the action to Texas or Arkansas) and thence into a polemic for a national firearms law; but that sort of twist in the argument tends to obscure the source of the difficulty, which does not lie in the disuniformities or inadequacies of various states' firearms laws but in the fundamental economics of the crime business. Of course gun runners will seek the least cost and most convenient source of supply, whatever it may be, legal markets, if available, but if they cannot deliver what is demanded, the turn to illegal markets, of smuggled guns or guns manufactured in cottage industry, is a simple operation. The acquisition behavior of illicit retail customers should be discouraged modestly at best by piling costs on gun runners. These customers are seeking to invest in capital plant for which there exists no ready substitutes.

Sorry, I did get some of the details wrong in that the quote was about guns run to DC instead of NYC, and apparently South Carolina has had a "one-handgun-a-month" law since 1975, but I think those are minor errors of detail.

[benEzra]

9. NC requires written permission from your sheriff in order to buy a handgun...

and the sheriff can arbitrarily limit you to as few as he wants, or deny you if in his opinion you are not of "good moral character" (which original meant "has the wrong color skin", but can mean anything the sheriff wants it to mean). You can also be denied if the sheriff thinks you haven't lived in the state long enough.

That law is a legacy of the Jim Crow era, when white politicians wanted to be able to intimidate African-Americans from taking advantage of their right to own guns, and even today it can still be intimidating. We are trying to get it changed, but of course the NC gun-control lobby loves it, so it's an uphill battle.

Having an NC CHL exempts you from the written-permission requirement, thankfully (the CHL still comes from the sheriff but at least it is issued according to statuatory, not subjective, criteria).

[Euromutt]

10. Scratch the Carolinas off the list of states I'm prepared to live in

Well, that does explain why the article I cited described why the gun traffickers moved their acquisition operations from Virginia straight to Georgia. I'd more or less assumed the Carolinas would have similar firearms laws to Virginia, but evidently, I was wrong. I stand corrected.

And no personal offense intended, but I'll be fucked short back and sideways before I move to a state where some cracker with a badge gets to tell me I can or can not own a handgun. If there's one thing that's hurt the gun control cause more than anything, it has to be granting executive "discretion" to sheriffs and police chiefs who have shown, time and time again, that they don't deserve to wield that kind of power.

[derby378]

11. Wow...

Last I heard, NC still outlawed full-auto and other NFA firearms, but I never knew they were also that strict on handguns. Do you have a link to a state government site on handgun law and policy I could peruse?

[benEzra]

13. Here you go:

http://www.jus.state.nc.us/NCJA/ncfirearmslaws.pdf

BTW, the written-permission requirement applies not only to dealer sales, but to private sales and transfers as well, even within your family. It applies to all handguns and to crossbows as well. Which is undoubtedly due to all the drive-by crossbowings that are endemic in this state. :sarcasm:

NC also prohibits licensed concealed carry in most restaurants and anywhere that you have to pay an admission fee, regardless of the views of the venue owner/operator. We have seriously screwy and subjective rules on open carry, and carry in National Forests is confusing because if you accidentally cross into a zone designated as a "game land," your pistol has to be a .22LR of no more than a certain barrel length, unless you are camping, in which case centerfires are OK, though many forest rangers don't seem to grasp the rules.

NC is trying hard to be the New Jersey of the South, in so many ways...

[OneTenthofOnePercent]

16. I'm pretty sure some NFA is allowed in the carolinas.

I know of a few fellow (via forums) from NC with SBRs and Silencers.
They are civilians too.

[benEzra]

17. NFA registered SBR's and Destructive Devices are allowed, but automatic weapons are not.

NC law defines any rifle with a barrel under 16" or any shotgun with a barrel length under 18" as a "weapon of mass death and destruction" (§14-288.8) which is so hyperbolic it's downright funny. Possession by collectors is allowed, though, as long as the collector satisfies the Federal NFA Title 2 rules. Collectors of machineguns and guns easily convertible to full auto are NOT exempted, though, so even though they are allowed by Federal law, they are ixnayed by state law. BUT, banks and department stores can legally possess machineguns to defend their premises from criminals (§14-409). So it's a violation of NC law for a collector to have an unloaded Federally registered Model 1919 locked in a safe, but it's legal for corporations to arm their security guards with M249's... :eyes:

[Pavulon]

21. Not quite correct

the statute has a clause for a business to own weapons. ANY business can, at the discretion of the sheriff and the AG apply. The actual application of this statute is interpreted a bit differently than it reads.

[Pavulon]

20. That does not happen. I have never been turned down

they will issue them 10 at a time and some counties are willing to sign NFA forms. With a ccw it is , as you say, a non issue.

[benEzra]

22. I was turned down once...

for not living here long enough (lived here 18 years prior to moving to Florida, but had "only" been back for 3 months (at age 34), and the local sheriff decided that anyone who had lived here less than 6 months (IIRC) couldn't buy a handgun. Didn't get it in writing because I didn't push it, as I was there to get a CHL anyway (so I got the CHL and made it moot).

Sounds like you have a pro-gun sheriff. Problem is, NC law gives middling or anti-gun sheriffs enough latitude to make up their own restrictions, and some do.

[Jackson1999]

12. I question that statement

According the the latest ATF numbers, 30% of all guns recovered in DC are from either Va (302) or Md. (317). The next highest state is only 108 guns. Doesn't seem like it has helped as much.

I also wonder how many of those "firearms under investigation" were confiscated on a short stretch of 295. I have read reports of several people who were traveling from Va. with an unloaded gun in the back seat (legal) to Maryland (also legal). It is so easy to travel from Va. to Md. along this route without even realizing you are passing through DC (illegal).

[PavePusher]

14. It would still be legal under the Federal peaceable journey law,

but D.C. seems to think they can break that law with impunity...

[Jackson1999]

15. Not in this case

I was more thinking about someone with an unlocked, unloaded shotty in their back seat--legal in both Md and Va. but not in DC. The interstate transport rules require locked cased gun.

[benEzra]

18. Yet he endorsed pro-gun Jim Webb in 2006, and has complimented Deeds' repub opponent.

Wilder endorsed Jim Webb in the 2006 senate race, who was/is just as pro-gun-owner as Deeds. And Wilder has said more favorable things about Deeds' Republican opponent than he has about Deeds:

http://www.newsmax.com/politics/wilder_praises_mcdonnell/2009/07/30/241819.html

Former Va. Gov. Wilder Praises GOP's McDonnell

Former Democratic Gov. L. Douglas Wilder said Wednesday that his party's gubernatorial nominee, R. Creigh Deeds, is at risk of becoming the "me, too" candidate, and complimented GOP opponent Robert F. McDonnell on his efforts to reach out to Virginians who don't traditionally vote Republican.

"I would have to say Bob (McDonnell) seems to be very aggressive in going out and strongly seeking the support of everybody," Mr. Wilder said.

The comments were made during an interview with The Washington Times in which Mr. Wilder, 78, the nation's first elected black governor, said Mr. McDonnell has been able during the campaign for November's election to set the agenda on several issues.

[spin]

19. Is there any exception made for people who wish to buy a gun collection?

Obviously, the seller wouldn't be interested in selling a large collection to another individual at only one firearm per month.