Guns Allowed In Arizona Bars Starting Wednesday

[democracy1st]

PHOENIX — A new Arizona law allowing people with concealed weapons permits to carry their guns into bars takes effect Wednesday. But many bars are pulling in the welcome mat.

The law allows bar and restaurant owners to post signs barring guns.

There's no official tally on how many of the 5,800 establishments that sell alcohol have posted signs, but the state says it has provided at least 1,300 laminated placards so far, and the signs are also available over the Internet.

The law was backed by the National Rifle Association, which argued that licensed gun owners shouldn't be forced to leave their protection behind.

The law, however, prohibits gun-carriers from drinking alcohol in the establishments.

The NRA says Arizona is the 41st state with such a law.



Read more at: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/09/29/guns-allowed-in-arizona-b_n_303126.html

[sakabatou]

1. Guns and alcohol. Sure fire mix.

[imdjh]

4. Have you ever shot a man while you were drunk?

[Robb]

14. I shot a man in Reno

...but it was purely to witness his death. ;)

Edited to add: Johnny Cash reference. To explain to the kids, no, Robb hasn't shot anyone. :D

[imdjh]

20. Were you trailed by fifty hounds? Could you get to sleep that night?

[jeepnstein]

144. In a cave up in the hills.

[City Lights]

61. The one I was aiming for?

No.

[Cleita]

93. First time I went to Alaska back in the sixties, before the pipe line brought

in more population, everyone carried a gun of some sort. But many of the bars had sort of a combination coat room with a gun rack to park your heat before you entered the bar. Even in a place full of armed civilians, they recognized that it was a bad idea for the drinking clientele to be armed.

[Euromutt]

119. Didn't read that penultimate line, did you?

The law, however, prohibits gun-carriers from drinking alcohol in the establishments.

If you're packing, you can't drink. And before you say "what's to stop them from doing so anyway?" let me point out there's nothing in practice to stop anyone from carrying a concealed weapon into a bar now.

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

2. Wow, maybe let reality tv cameras in and watch natural selection at work?

[Craftsman]

40. Puts a whole new meaning to doing shots at a bar.

[Le Taz Hot]

81. LOL!

OK, that was funny.

[tucsonlib]

124. I Used To Play Music In Bars....

'course back then the hecklers weren't packing Hecklers.......

[imdjh]

3. So are strippers allowed on firing ranges now?

[Ikonoklast]

110. Absolutely. Their money is as good as anyones.

But I suggest they cover up a little on the firing line; spent brass can get be a little warm falling on exposed skin.

[asdjrocky]

5. Guns and booze, what could go wrong?

[armyowalgreens]

12. They aren't allowed to drink.

[joeybee12]

17. Yeah, it's a concealed weapon, the bartender isn't going to know if the

guy has a gun when he serves him...this is one of the dumbest laws ever.

[armyowalgreens]

19. No issues with the law in other states. CCW holders are fairly responsible people.

[MineralMan]

27. If I'm not mistaken, no CCW permit is required for open carry

in AZ. I'm thinking about the moran at Obama's town hall...

[armyowalgreens]

32. You are wrong. They must have CCW permits.

http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5i4PSarfGJNWRZRC0OWFn9f0dF59wD9B147B01

[Old Hob]

77. Pretty sure Arizona doesn't require you to have a CCW to carry openly.

[armyowalgreens]

78. And if you have half a brain, you will read the damn article that I already posted...

And it will tell you that the law requires that the person have a CCW permit in order to carry into a bar.

OPEN CARRY LAWS DO NOT APPLY TO THIS LAW.

[Old Hob]

82. No need to be a fucking prick about it.

just a bit of confusion.

[armyowalgreens]

84. I apologize. But...

I said that the law states that the person must be a CCW holder and linked to the article.

You responded to my post, the one that literally explains how the carrier must be a CCW holder, by saying that people can open carry without a CCW permit.


It's not the hard to read the article. This is why we have so many anti-gun folks in here. They don't look at the facts.

[Old Hob]

87. That's cool. I misunderstood the argument and jumped in with a post

Having recently traveled through Arizona, I am familiar with their carry laws. I read the pertinent points of the bill (SB 1113) in question too and it does specify that the law only applies to permit holders and peace officers who meet specific criteria.
http://www.azleg.gov/DocumentsForBill.asp?Bill_Number=SB1113

[Arkansas Granny]

30. They also won't know if he's been drinking before he arrives at the bar.

[Kaylin]

70. very good point

[slackmaster]

145. Gee Granny, we don't know if you've been drinking this morning

Please surrender your driver's license immediately.

[MineralMan]

31. Open carry requires no permit or anything else in AZ.

[armyowalgreens]

34. Nope. The law requires a CCW permit.

[MineralMan]

36. I don't believe so. I just confirmed it on several websites.

In AZ, no permit is required for open carry. Check it out.

[armyowalgreens]

37. I suggest you read my link that I already posted. You are incorrect...

http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5i4PSarfGJNWRZRC0OWFn9f0dF59wD9B147B01


They must have a CCW permit.

[armyowalgreens]

39. This new law has nothing to do with open carry laws.

[blindpig]

67. You're right

You can carry a holstered lever action rifle on your bicycle in rush hour traffic too.

That'll get bike riders some respect.

[surrealAmerican]

80. I don't know ...

... It would be awfully hard to shoot a moving target while riding a bicycle.

[Euromutt]

122. Under the current law, the bartender isn't going to know either

What, in practice, is to stop someone from carrying a concealed handgun into a bar and getting tanked under the current law?

[asdjrocky]

24. Oh well, then I guess that's ok.

A drunk isn't going to try to grab the gun, that would never happen.

I worked in bars most of my life, guns don't mix well with the liquor.

[armyowalgreens]

28. Like I've already said in here, other states have the same law...

And nothing has happened.

[asdjrocky]

83. Have you ever seen anyone get shot?

Ain't a great thing to see. I got no problem with guns, I own some guns, sure, but I do have a problem with these laws that keep getting passed that make guns already prevalent in our society than they already are.

It's like the politicians keep driving the car faster and faster and never worry about what happens when it crashes.

[armyowalgreens]

85. That's useless hyperbole.

How is being a witness to someone being shot relevant to the topic at hand? Honestly.

Are you just looking for ways to smear this law?

[asdjrocky]

88. That is such a dumb question I won't even answer it.

[armyowalgreens]

90. It's not a dumb question. You simply don't want to give the answer...

This law is a non-issue.

It has not only been proven to work fine in other states, at least one news story suggests that it is beneficial.

And yet you are still in here talking about how dangerous it's going to be.

[Treo]

112. I've not only seen people shot

I've been shot. In neither case was alcohol a factor. Stupidity yes, Alcohol no.

[imdjh]

15. Guns are already allowed in crackhouses and Meth houses.

[rfranklin]

29. Yes, and that has worked out very well...

Lunacy prevails.

[FiveGoodMen]

47. And those are great places to hang out?

[BlooInBloo]

107. So we should have EVEN MORE places like that!!!

:rofl:

[ashling]

6. Computers allow people to make mistakes faster than anything

except handguns and tequila

[meegbear]

7. W00t! Tequila for everybody!!

:woohoo:

[Craftsman]

41. Correction Tekilla for everybody!!

[AndyA]

8. The law, however, prohibits gun-carriers from drinking alcohol in the establishments.

Yeah, that'll work out well. So many people go to bars just to sit around and not drink. Who could have possibly predicted that this might turn into a problem? Guns and alcohol mix so well... :eyes:

[armyowalgreens]

16. It won't be a problem. Other states have the same law...

And nothing has happened. In fact, I read a story about a gun owner shooting someone else who had come into the bar looking to shoot people.

[Euromutt]

130. In practice, what prevents someone from carrying concealed into these establishments now?

Pretty much nothing, right? If some guy decides to shove a Glock down his pants and saunter into some joint à la Plaxico Burress, the fact that it's illegal isn't going to physically prevent him from doing so. But for some reason, we don't hear much about CCW permit holders sneaking their guns into bars, getting tanked, and wreaking havoc, even though there's nothing physically stopping them. Maybe that same something that's already stopping them from doing that (willpower? principles?) will also stop them from drinking if they do carry into a bar.

[armyowalgreens]

9. Nothing is going to happen. Other states have the same law...

And nothing has happened there either.

This is basically a non-issue.

[MineralMan]

10. That's bound to work out well...

Alcohol and guns...the drink of chumpions.

[armyowalgreens]

13. They aren't allowed to drink.

[MineralMan]

22. Right. Of course. See my scenario below.

I've been in Arizona bars.

[armyowalgreens]

25. Your scenario is absurd.

Other states have the same law and nothing bad has happened. In fact, I read a story about a CCW holder using his gun to take down another person that came into a bar shooting.

If you honestly don't think that the bar could handle some drunk asshole, and that a CCW holder would resort to shooting said drunk asshole, you must be delusional.

[Robb]

11. Oddly enough, I have no problem with this.

Concealed carry permit people tend to be quite responsible with their firearms.

It's the other 99% (made up statistic) of guns out there I worry about, frankly. And they're not checking them at any doors to begin with.

So this doesn't solve that problem. But I don't see it creating any new ones.

[MineralMan]

23. Who said anything about concealed carry. I don't think you need

a permit to open carry in AZ. Remember the moron at Obama's town hall?

[Robb]

98. It was hiding in the article:

This may help:

PHOENIX — A new Arizona law allowing people with concealed weapons permits to carry their guns into bars takes effect Wednesday.

:D

[Treo]

114. You don't need a permit to OC in AZ

however, OC is illegal in a bar in AZ. In order to legally carry a firearm in a bar you must be a permit holder.

[ShortnFiery]

18. Sure, what possibly could go wrong when you mix firearms and whiskey?

:crazy:

[MineralMan]

21. I can envision it now...

Gun Carrier, sitting next to drunk wife: Hey! Asshole! You lookin' at my wife?
Drunk non-gun carrier: Up yours, buddy! I'll look at who I want.

Anyone with half a brain can continue the dialog. The end, though, instead of the drunk ending up on the floor with a broken jaw, ends otherwise.

[PavePusher]

113. Wonderful talent for projection you have there. n/t

[Euromutt]

132. You know that Heinlein line that pro-RKBA types like to quote?

The one about an armed society being a polite society? Well, he didn't mean that everybody would be afraid to be rude lest they get their heads blown off by some person with a homicidally quick temper. Okay, maybe a bit, but it wasn't the only, or even the most important, thing he meant. What he was primarily driving at is that people who have the means to inflict lethal force about their person generally learn that it's best not to allow--let alone cause--situations to escalate into violence, because the local prosecutor may take the attitude that "you should have known better to do that with a gun on you" and may well convince a jury of that as well.

[PavePusher]

142. That may be the best interpretation of that quote I've ever seen. n/t

[Arkansas Granny]

26. That's bound to work out well. I hope that never goes into effect in my state.

[pipoman]

74. Arkansas CHCL

holders can carry legally in restaurants which serve alcohol...no problems yet, huh?

[Arkansas Granny]

141. A restaurant that serves alcohol is not the same as a bar.

Arkansas Law does not allow concealed weapons in bars, which was the initial subject of the OP.

No license to carry a concealed handgun issued pursuant to this subchapter
authorizes any person to carry a concealed handgun into:

<snip>

(12) Any portion of an establishment, except a restaurant as defined in § 3-
9-402, licensed to dispense alcoholic beverages for consumption on the
premises;
(13) Any portion of an establishment, except a restaurant as defined in § 3-
9-402, where beer or light wine is consumed on the premises;

http://www.asp.state.ar.us/divisions/rs/pdf/CHCL%20statutes_effective%20073107_010109.pdf

§3-9-402:

"Restaurant" means: any public or private place, without sleeping accommodations and that place:
(A) Is kept, used, maintained, advertised, and held out to the public or to a private or restricted membership
as a place whose primary function and purpose is to take orders for and to serve food and food items;
(B) Actually serves full and complete meals prepared in a fully equipped and sanitary kitchen and prepared
from uncooked foods for service to and for consumption by its guests or members on the premises;
(C) Has a seating capacity of at least fifty (50) people;
(D) Has employed a sufficient number and kind of employees to prepare, cook, and serve suitable foods to
its guests or members;
(E) On Sundays, serves alcoholic beverages on-premises only, in conjunction with meals;
(F) Serves food on all days of operations;
(G) Maintains separate sales figures for alcoholic beverages; and
(H) Has gross sales of sixty percent (60%) or more from the sale of food, food items, and nonalcoholic
beverages, or, in the case of excursion boats, has gross sales of sixty percent (60%) of their gross income
from boat rental fees and sales of food and nonalcoholic beverages.

http://www.handgunlaw.us/states/arkansas.pdf

[Euromutt]

153. That's not a distinction Arizona law makes

Arizona state law only provides for "on-sale retailers," i.e. establishments "where spirituous liquors are sold in the original container for consumption on or off the premises or in individual portions for consumption on the premises."

States where there's a fracas over permitting "guns in bars" are invariably those,--like Tennessee and Arizona--that do not make a legal distinction between different types of establishments that serve alcoholic beverages.

[proteus_lives]

33. Newsflash. There have always been guns in bars.

Law or no.

Where are the bloodbaths the gun-grabbers keep screeching about?

[Taverner]

35. I support gun rights and I will come out and say THIS IS A BAD IDEA!!!!!

Guns and alcohol don't mix

Same reason you shouldn't mix Stock Car Racing with Alcohol

[armyowalgreens]

43. This law is perfectly reasonable and similar laws are already used in 41 states...

And no other states are having issues with it.

It requires someone to have a CCW permit. And CCW permit holders are fairly responsible people.

http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5i4PSarfGJNWRZRC0OWFn9f0dF59wD9B147B01

[Taverner]

44. Yes I know, but still guns and alcohol don't mix

They just don't. I know legally they have the right, and I don't think enacting any laws would do anything.

But what I wouldn't give to make CCW owners take a class on the dangers of shooting and drinking. Or at least promise they won't take their guns to bars.

It's a bad idea, and a perfect example of "just because you can, doesn't mean you should."

[armyowalgreens]

45. The CCW holder cannot consume alcohol if they are carrying.

You are right. Guns and alcohol don't mix. That's why they aren't allowed to drink.


And like I have already said, 41 states have similar laws with no measurable negative consequences.

This is a non-issue.

[Taverner]

46. Ahhhh that's different - you didn't tell me that

Although it begs the question why would you go into a bar if you didn't want to drink (flirt, eat, watch the game) and begs the bigger question, how low does your BAC need to be before you can use your gun?

[armyowalgreens]

48. Some people like to carry where ever they go. If they go to a bar with friends...

They will likely bring a gun if they do not plan on drinking.

I'm assuming your BAC must be at .000 in order to carry.

[Taverner]

51. I dunno, it just seems like a VERY BAD IDEA

But I understand the logic. Bringing an open container of Hydrochloric Acid into a bar is probably legal, but it would also fall into that very bad idea category

[armyowalgreens]

54. I think this is a good idea...

I've already read a story about a CCW holder using his gun to take down another person that came into a bar shooting.

On edit: That was in another state.

[Treo]

116. zero. NT

[Arkansas Granny]

73. How are they to know if said CCW holder has not been drinking before he enters the bar?

[armyowalgreens]

75. The same could be said for any situation where a gun owner enters an establishment.

How do we know that the guy carrying in Walgreens isn't plastered?


There is a certain element of trust that must be accepted. And, as already stated, there have not been issues with this law.

[Taverner]

94. Well from what it sounds like, CCW owners have a good track record of not doing such

As crazy as the idea sounds, I think we should give CCW owners the benefit of the doubt.

Of course, all things should be considered here

And if I'm wrong, I'm wrong

[PavePusher]

118. How do they know he wasn't drinking before DRIVING to the bar?

Mountain....

Molehill.

'Nuff said.

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

56. It is still illegal to drink while carrying a weapon.

I haven't seen reports of increases in bar shootings in the 40 other states that have these laws. In fact a mass murder was stopped in progress by a ccw permit holder in a bar in Nevada.

[Taverner]

59. Well if you seperate the alcohol from the gun, its like being anywhere else

That is a big distinction that needs to be made.

The first thing people think when you say "bar" is "alcohol" - so its not that crazy of a jump in logic

[armyowalgreens]

63. It's just annoying that people jump on the anti-gun bandwagon without looking at the law.

I don't think it's reasonable to jump to such knee-jerk conclusions.

[Taverner]

65. It's not what's said, but how its said

If that was brought up first thing, I'd be willing to bet many would change their minds on it.

But honestly - that's the first thought I had - a drunk, armed person in a bar.

[Kaylin]

68. I agree

I thought the same thing at first.

[slackmaster]

150. As long as alcohol remains illegal, NOBODY should be allowed to drive

People could drink in the privacy of their own homes and then drive a car.

[onehandle]

38. As America gets dumber, the rest of the world facepalms. nt

[KansDem]

42. Remind me if I ever travel through Arizona and stop for a beer at a bar...

...to take the gunfighter's seat.

[ddeclue]

49. OK..let me get this straight... you can bring your gun into the bar in PHX but the bar closes at 1AM

:rofl:

Phoenix has some screwed up bar laws.

[armyowalgreens]

50. I'm pretty sure the bars close at 2. But I could be wrong...

I just remember being down on Mill and the sub place I was in flooded with drunk people at 2 AM.

[ddeclue]

57. I lived in the Mesa/Tempe area in 2002 and the bars all closed at 1AM on a Saturday night!

I was stunned...

[armyowalgreens]

60. I think they must have changed the law.

Because I'm pretty sure it's 2 AM.

[Hello_Kitty]

71. They stay open until 2 now. The law was changed about 10 years ago. eom

[thelordofhell]

52. What a useless law this is.......in all 41 states

When the hell was the last time you went into a bar NOT to drink. I guess you'll be able to tell the designated drivers at the club by their concealed weapons.

:eyes:

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

66. When was the last time you went to Applebee's and didn't drink?

or Red Lobster? or Chili's? The law was written with those type of restaurants in mind.

[thelordofhell]

76. Wrong

It was written for any establishment that sells alcohol. Once again, this is a useless law. Go bug someone else.

[armyowalgreens]

79. It was written to apply to establishments that sell alcohol.

It's not our fault that you don't like what we are telling you.


This law is neither bad nor useless.

[thelordofhell]

96. Why was this law needed?

Besides Plaxico Burress, what does a law like this help? Did it really matter so much that you couldn't bring your CONCEALED weapon into a bar/restaurant/place that serves alcohol? Why was this law needed?

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

99. This law allows CCW permit holders to carry a firearm in restaurants that serve alcohol.

Those CCW permit holders are still prohibited from drinking alcohol while they are carrying a firearm. The state legislatures apparently felt that their constituents in 41 states deemed these laws to be popular and prudent. Of course maybe you could cite all the episodes of CCW permit holders shooting people in bars in the previous 40 states to dissuade any more states from passing similar laws. You guys don't tend to like facts much though.

[thelordofhell]

104. I got news for you

All 50 states haven't had this problem. Once again, you fail to see my point. This law was not needed. Nothing stopped a bar/restaurant/place that serves alcohol from denying or letting in a person with a concealed firearm. Why is it needed now?

All this law does is provide lawsuit happy people the ability to sue a bar/restaurant/place that serves alcohol IF they deny someone with a concealed weapon from entering their place of business.

And don't get all "state legislature felt" crap on me. This bill was written by the gun lobby, not a legislator, and if the people wanted it, it would have easily been petitioned to be put on the state ballot and voted on.....a right we have in Arizona.

I'm done telling you the same thing and not getting any answer out of you.....go away.

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

105. You are quite dense. Most states prohibited carrying firearms into places that served alcohol.

[thelordofhell]

133. You don't answer my question and you insult me......good man

By the way....the law is about bringing a concealed weapon into a bar. Game over dude, you're done.

[rgbecker]

152. Read up above...41 states have this law the gun nut said.

50 states total. 41 have law that allows guns in bars. 9 states still don't. 41 is more than 9. So "most" states allow guns. "Fewer" states prohibit guns.



Just saying.

[PavePusher]

117. Umm, they can't sue if the denial is based on State law.

Why are you making things up out of whole cloth?

[thelordofhell]

137. State law now says you can carry a concealed weapon into a bar

You go to a bar with your concealed weapon. Bar has not posted any "No Weapons Allowed" sign. You get kicked out of the bar for carrying a concealed weapon. I'm sure the NRA will be more than happy to help you sue for denial of your constitutional right to bear concealed arms in a bar, since they helped write the law.

This is a pre-emptive gun rights law that didn't need to be. By the way, I have guns and a concealed weapons permit, but I will never be a member of the NRA because of idiotic stuff like this.

[PavePusher]

147. You may wish to study up some more, it doesn't work that way on private property.

Even if not posted "No Firearms", the owner/operater can ask you to leave at any time. If you do not, they can call the police and file trespassing charges against you.

[X_Digger]

125. Why was it needed?

Because on my way to see my favorite band at a great bar in a crappy neighborhood, I couldn't find a parking place within four blocks. So I parked under the nearest working streetlight, set my alarm, and walked past the bodega with the dealers out front on one corner, the prostitutes & pimps in the next block, past the crack house, 'massage' parlor, etc etc.. and I passed all that again at 3:30 am to get _back_ to my car..

ie, it's not about the bar itself, it's about the to / from that worries me.

[thelordofhell]

134. Sounds like some of the bars I've been into see a band

Lucky your car wasn't broken into. I look like a bouncer so I never really have that security problem.

By the way, congratulations. Unlike some of the other responses to my rant, you actually gave a good example of a what if scenario. I take it you have a concealed weapons permit? I don't think if a dude wanted to rob you he would know you were packin' and leave you alone. Oh yeah, and always bring a friend with you to the show.

[X_Digger]

143. Situation was real, me carrying was hypothetical..

I'm in the process of getting my license, just haven't found time for the class / range test.

Everyone that I know who is in favor of these changes is worried about a situation similar to the one above. It's not the destination that concerns them, it's the journey.

In Texas, it's legal for me to carry a loaded weapon in my vehicle, as long as it's concealed- without a license. I do avail myself of this when working all over the state on telecom equipment in every kind of city, town, and neighborhood. I'd rather not be forced to leave my gun in my car in a questionable neighborhood, nor be subject to the good nature of the residents should I need to walk to my destination, so I'm getting my CHL.

[Euromutt]

154. No, he's perfectly correct

If you look at the version of the bill passed by the AZ senate (http://www.azleg.gov/FormatDocument.asp?inDoc=/legtext/49leg/1r/bills/sb1113s.htm), you'll see it pertains specifically to "the premises of a licensee who is an on‑site retailer that offers for sale food for on‑site consumption prepared in a kitchen located on the premises." That particular provision got dropped in the final version, but it was originally there.

[PavePusher]

115. I go to bars and do not drink alcohol all the time.

Alcohol does not work well for me, and I like to be DD for my troops.

Are you incapable of not drinking in a bar?

[thelordofhell]

135. I've been a designated driver

Haven't felt the urge to carry a concealed weapon into a bar though. Who does and why did a law have to spell it out?

[PavePusher]

151. If I'm not drinking, I would (will) carry if legal and not posted.

The criminals are already carrying guns in bars. Previously only lawful citizens were disarmed. Can you explain the (lack of) sense in that?

Now, criminal activity does happen in bars, it's the risk of the venue. Why should legal citizens be rendered at a disadvantage in dealing with said criminals? This law was enacted to spell out that self-defense by legal, sober people will be lawful. I see no harm in that. Everything else that was illegal before, is still illegal. Criminals and drunks/drinkers not allowed to carry, and if caught, will hopefully be punished.

Here in Tucson a man recently shot an attacker in the parking lot of my favorite local hang-out. The attacker died, and his 4 or 5 accomplices fled, several were apprehended later. As far as I can tell, the man had not carried his gun into the bar prior to the incident, but I think this demonstrates why one might wish to do so. Someone already posted about a defensive shooting inside a bar.

I hope this clears up the topic somewhat.

[Treo]

126. I've been sober since I was 17

I've NEVER been in a bar to drink. I've been in a bar to eat, I've been in a bar to pick up women , I've been in a bar to shoot pool but I've never been in a bar to drink.
TYPO

[thelordofhell]

136. Congratulations on your sobriety

Have you ever thought about or tried carrying a concealed weapon into a bar before you heard of these types laws being passed?

[Treo]

138. Carrying in a bar

Here in Colorado It's legal so it's a non issue. I'm a firm believer in you always carry or you never carry so if I were going to a bar I'd carry. I have carried in Applebees, Red Lobster (in the actual bar) and the Texas Road house. I also carried at school.

Thanks for the congratulations BTW

[thelordofhell]

139. We've never really had to worry about it in Arizona either

But apparantly it needed to be spelled out in a law. Go figure.

Stay sober dude. :applause:

[inkool]

140. I go to bars all the time and not drink while carrying a gun.

To see bands play, hang out with friends, etc.

Oh and in PA there is no law against drinking while carrying a gun. It has not been a problem. I guess people who carry guns are just smarter then you think we are.

[GreenStormCloud]

148. Do you have X-ray eyes?

Concealed means CONCEALED. That means the gun is out of sight. How are you going to see an out-of-sight gun?

[KamaAina]

53. So will Plaxico Burress sign with the Cardinals after he gets out?

:P

[blueamy66]

55. But....

many bar owners are already posting signs that prohibit guns. I'm sure many more will do so in the future.

And AZ bar's serve until 2 now.

[aikoaiko]

58. OMG! ONOZ!

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

62. CCW Permit Holder Stops Mass Murder In Progress (In a Bar)

Three Men Killed in Winnemucca Shooting on Sunday

Deputies with the Humboldt County Sheriff's Office are investigating a shooting in Winnemucca early Sunday morning that left three people dead and others injured.

The shooting happened at the Player's Bar & Grill on South Grass Valley Road.

Investigators say a feud between two local families is behind the early-morning shooting inside the bar. Three men from Winnemucca died from gunshot wounds, and two others are in critical condition at the hospital.

Deputies say about 2:25 a.m., 30-year-old Ernesto Villa Gomez walked into the bar and starting shooting. 20-year-old Jose Torres and his 19-year-old brother Margarito Torres were killed. When Villa Gomez was reloading his semi-automatic gun, a man from Reno took out a gun and shot Villa Gomez. That man has a concealed weapons permit.

http://www.ktvn.com/Global/story.asp?S=8378732

[armyowalgreens]

64. Thank you. I was trying to find that.

[snort]

72. Good idea proven.

[Hubert Flottz]

69. Wyatt Earp will be pissed...

[Cleita]

86. When I was a bartender, all my off duty law enforcement customers carried

concealed weapons. I never really asked if it was legal or not. I assumed it was. Would cops break the law? This was in California.

[onehandle]

91. In many places, off duty law enforcement are required to carry their weapon.

Which is a good idea.

Joe Six-Pack?

Not so good.

[sohndrsmith]

102. did they drink? n/t

[Ikonoklast]

111. You've never been around off-duty cops in a bar, I see.

Some of them need to be driven home. After arguing with the dumbass he was waaayyy to drunk to drive.

I know. Been there; done that.

And yes, they were packing. And inebriated.

[Cleita]

129. Oh, yeah!

[fascisthunter]

89. lol.... stupid

[Solly Mack]

92. Funeral Home profits are looking good

[Dawson Leery]

109. And most funeral homes have been bought out by

massive national corporations in the past decade too.

[Taverner]

95. Considering arguments made - my assumption is not many will excersize this right

I mean - why go to a bar if you can't drink?

True, you could be designated driver - but at that point your job is babysitter, and the gun might actually come in handy (as in one drunk does not kill another drunk)

To me - the part about the CCW not drinking makes all the difference

[PavePusher]

120. Taverner, (heh, what an appropriate name for this thread),

Thank you for keeping an open mind and looking at all the facts. Many of us here do appreciate it.

[Thickasabrick]

97. Well....at least the owners can decide. If I was an owner of a bar,

I wouldn't want my patrons having guns.

However, it would be fun to try to find people who are packing and that are drinking too. Would that justify their permits being taken away?

[benEzra]

101. In most states, any violation of your license will get it revoked, yes. (n/t)

[X_Digger]

127. What's to stop those not likely to obey the previous law..

.. from obeying this one?

It's not likely that those who obey the law before (CCW/CHL holders have typically less arrests & convictions per capita than even police officers) will likely obey the law now, and not drink if they do carry in a bar that allows it, or not carry if they plan to drink or visit a bar that doesn't allow it.

I don't think I've met a more scrupulous group of people than licensed CCW/CHL holders.

[Dont_Bogart_the_Pretzel]

100. Who goes to a bar and doesn't drink?

But at lease you can be armed. :eyes:

[PavePusher]

121. Lots of people. Me. A bunch of my friends. DD's.

Your straw man, it seems flammable... I'll get marshmallows.

[spin]

131. Designated driver for one. (n/t)

[slackmaster]

146. I did last night

:hi:

I watched a baseball game with my friends on a nice hi-def TV.

[npk]

103. Yeeeeeehaaaaaaaaaaaaw.

Bullets, Booze, and well you know the other word. Sounds like one hell of a good ol' time to be had by many.

[seabeyond]

106. fools them. no cigs, but guns. good thing i am out fo the bar scene, oh

and i dont live in the state.

[Dawson Leery]

108. STAY OUT OF ARIZONA!

Nothing good can come of this one.

So does each individual bar owner get to decide whether or not they will permit guns in their bars?

[PavePusher]

123. Yes, they can. Up to the owner/operator of the bar/restaurant.

Can you name one of the states that does allow this, that has had a marked up-tick in bar/restaurant shootings? It's O.K., we'll wait....

[Hoopla Phil]

128. AND THE OTHER 40 STATES THAT ALLOW THIS!!!!

Of course that was sarcasm.

[westerm]

149. why?

What evidence is there that "nothing good can come of this one"? Your argument is just "blood in the streets" applied to bars. CCW holders in general have proven themselves to be a remarkably law-abiding bunch, why would they start breaking the law all of a sudden? Why are you guys inable to let go of these arguments that have been proven flawed time and time again? Your posts are like "Reefer Madness" in text form, if Reefer Madness was about guns. That is how ridiculous your positions are.