Who here has ever had a defensive display?

[Treo]

It seems to me that a lot of the antis that post here are convinced that we either will never actually have need of a gun or that we’re a bunch of cowboys that are just looking for an excuse. I think it might be helpful to put a “face” on the American gun owner by pointing out that some of us really have had reason to use a firearm in self defense and that we didn’t jump at the first chance we got to “bust a cap” on somebody.

I realize this can be a very touchy subject that’s part of the reason I’m limiting the parameters of this discussion to defensive display. If you’ve had to fire your weapon in self-defense (as a civilian) and you wish to participate you’re welcome also.

I’ve had two instances one that I feel was absolutely justified and the other, not so much.
The first happened in Omaha when I was 18 it was five of them armed W/ bats and tire irons V. me and a S&W .357. No shots fired, no injuries.

The second, the one I don’t feel was justified happened in 1996/7(?) I came home and caught someone in my apartment and instead of calling the police I cleared the house and held the guy at gunpoint until I found out that he was bldg. maintenance and he had a work order to fix my plumbing. Even though I was legal I don’t feel like I was justified because I should have let the cops handle it. No shots fired but the maintenance guy had a stroke the next day the bldg, manager blamed it on me.

So please share your stories.

[DeadEyeDyck]

1. think I will sit this one out for a while-it is going to get hot.

As a gun owner, I used to get into this fray and everyone told me I was a RW, Freeper, Fundi, etc. Had guess before I can remember. Dad is a retired Green Beret. Too bad I am always beat about the head and sholders just for supporting self defense. Guess it will happen again.

[armueller2001]

24. ...

...

[paulsby]

2. i've had them

i've had one while off duty. didn't draw it, just displayed it. it solved the problem.

i've drawn mine several hundred of times on duty. fired it a couple of times.

[Hoopla Phil]

3. Well, I was going to tell you about the only one I had and then got to your maintenance incident.

First one was actually a maintenance man issue very similar to yours. I had moved into a new apartment and had to fill out that damage report sheet on move in. I noted a 3" x 6" burn spot in the carpet in one of the bedrooms. Well, I come home for lunch one day months later and upon walking in (door was locked and I used my key to get in as normal) and closing the door I hear something from the back. I drop my keys and get my pistol from my fanny pack and start to clock the corner into the first bedroom. I hear a "hello?" as I lean over and cover the doorway into the first bedroom. I see this guy sitting on the floor looking up with very big saucer eyes as he says "maintenance". I holster back and ask "aren't you supposed to put a hanger on the damn door when you're in here?" He responded: "Yes Sir, that is totally my fault, I'm very sorry." and that was the end of it.

The second was a little more scary. As I said I'm an apartment liver so car washing means a coin operated affair. I wash my car with a lot of care and extra work. I take a bucket, wash rag, brushes for the tires and towels to dry it off after - cannot stand water spots. Anyhow, I'm at the car wash and I've got the bucket filled and in the process of washing with the wash rag when a couple of guys drive up to the stall next to me with a boom box just blaring.

Now let me explain about this boom box. It was not something like sitting in your living room and having it drive by and rattle the pictures on the wall a little. This actually hurt (real pain here) my ears. I've been to my share of metal concerts and NEVER had pain like this in my ears before. So I politely walk out of my stall and ask the guy that got out to turn that crap down. He says "Huh?" so I have to yell it to him. (This guy sounds and acts like the old Dell commercial guy - sounds like a constipated pill popper) So he says something like "yeah dude" and shuts it down.

I few minutes later he walks over and tells me that I cannot wash my car like I'm doing (using a bucket and wash rag) says he knows cause his uncle owns this car wash. I toss him a quarter and tell him to call his uncle and tell him. A little later he walks back over and starts some B.S. about how the degreaser is not working on his stall and he wants me to trade stalls with him and then goes on about how things don't work right and is real blaw, blaw, blaw when it dawns on me that I do not see his buddy anywhere. I take three steps back and one step to the side so that I can see back to the other end of my stall and see his buddy rounding the corner about to come my direction. I pull the tear-away strap on my fanny pack and grab my pistol but do not draw it. I look them both over, the guy trying to sneak up behind me has stopped and the guy in front of me has the deer in the headlights look going on. I look him square and tell him "you're not ready for this game junior, you better get." And they freaking did. They hauled ass getting out of there.

I have to say that I thought about beating feet myself but decided not to. I don't think I violated any laws so I decided to face up to anything that came my way. I finished up the car and moved on to the vacume area and spent another two bucks on the vacume machine. Never had any cop roll by or the two "Dell reps" drive past. That was probably 6 years back and still nothing. Even re-upped my CHL since.

Now I don't know what these guys deal was. Were they just trying to "fuck" with me and have a few jollies mentally fucking with me? I don't know. Were they pissed about me not dealing with their crap and standing up to them and ready to give me a beat down? Maybe, but again I don't know. What I do know is that they got a real wake up call when they saw my grasping the grip of my 1911.

[X_Digger]

4. Only once..

I service network equipment in COs (central offices) for a telecom company all over Texas, Louisiana, and sometimes Oklahoma. I go into every kind of neighborhood, town, and city. After having my truck broken into twice, and being mugged at gun point then getting my head almost cracked by the junkie's buddy, I decided to carry a pistol.

Last year in the aftermath of Hurricane Ike, I was in Galveston trying to get phone service back up for residents. As I was ferrying ~$10k worth of network testing gear from the open bed of my truck to the switch around dusk, I was approached by a 20-25 year old guy asking for money. I offered him a bottle of water and an energy bar. He became agitated and again demanded money. He got close enough that I could see that he had a mouth full of mostly black stumps instead of teeth, and continued to follow me as I went around the front of my truck to the open driver's door to grab a bottle of water. As I reached into the center console of my truck, he pulled a knife from his overcoat (an overcoat in September in Texas- yah, nothing at all odd about that) and took a step toward me. I switched from a bottle of water to the holstered pistol in the console. I unholstered my pistol, put the open truck door between us, and told him to piss off. He took another step toward me, I raised my pistol and pointed it at his chest. He looked down, then turned and ran. I got on the company radio, and an hour later, a DPS officer came by to check on me. He took my statement and left.

You know what really pissed me off at the time? That I'd offered the guy a bottle of water and something to eat. I've been approached many times by some rather stinky characters (Texas heat and homelessness / vagrancy tends to mix into a rather odoriferous combination.) Most were just panhandlers- the kind that you see with cardboard signs (my favorite was one that read 'why lie? want beer') or a bouquet of flowers weaving in and out of traffic at stop lights. I usually have a dollar for them if they make it to my truck before the light changes. So yeah, I was pissed that I offered to help this guy and he turns around and pulls a knife on me.

Shit, if he'd waited, I would have gotten on the radio and asked for a pick-up from the Texas City FD / Galveston PD / TX natl guard who had a crisis response center about ten minutes away. I'd seen more than one .mil truck trundle by with residents in the back going to the center.

[spin]

12. Hurricanes brings out the best and the worst in people. (n/t)

[Katya Mullethov]

22. But the best in Photoshop nt

[jeepnstein]

5. Once, off duty...

It was a bit of a misunderstanding. I was working at a family-owned convenience store and a "customer" produced a knife and began making demands. I produced my .45 and made one of my own. The knife was dropped, quickly. A short discussion followed and the fellow in question promised to never try a stunt like that again. The police arrived shortly afterward and much hilarity ensued.

I've had to draw my weapon on duty several times, mostly felony traffic stops. I am very thankful that I have never had to fire it. Some of my friends have not been so fortunate and it's a burden they carry with them every day.

[benEzra]

6. My father had a "save" of that nature in the early 1970's, when I was a child.

No shots fired; his would-be attackers saw he was armed, backed off, and left. This was in the Croatan National Forest late one night; the pistol was legally carried.

No incidents on my part, in nearly 20 years of carrying.

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

7. Building manager is an idiot.

[OneTenthofOnePercent]

8. Buddy of mine used to carry a 1911 around (before CCW was legal).

He was in Cleveland with his wife when some guy with a hand in his pocket demanded jewelery/wallets and said he had a gun. Now my buddy (nice guy & no criminal record but a little paranoid) has a 1911 in the back of his pants and reaches back like he's getting his wallet and pulls out his .45 pistol. He points it at the guys and says "get on the f*ing ground or I'm going to kill you." Guy gets on the ground and the police are called. The criminal actually HAD a gun on him when the police searched him and the cops DIDN'T arrest my friend. I guess they kinda looked the other way. Good for them, IMO.
Here's the neat part... this was before any of the Ohio CCW or anything.

I actually learned he carried a gun one day during lunch a couple of us are all talking and I mention I'm thinking about getting my 1st gun.
He chimes in and says he owns a ".45" ... pulls out a 1911 right there at the table... in a bar... in the middle of the day. :wow: :rofl:
Nice guy but a little crazy - haha. Wherever he is, hope he's doin' alright. (BTW, my 1st gun ended up being a 1911, go figure lol)

[Euromutt]

19. It's a bit John Goodman's character in "The Big Lebowski," isn't it?

After all, we know CCW permits in L.A. County are slightly less common than hen's teeth, and I don't think anyone like Walter Sobchak could acquire a California CCW permit for his 1911A1.

[OneTenthofOnePercent]

20. Exactly -not quite as fat though. More like Bert from Tremors. LOL

[SsevenN]

9. Roughly 2 years ago....

The girlfriend and I were walking back to the apt. We had ordered a Pizza downtown, picked it up, and headed back. (on foot, maybe 7-10 blocks away) The time was just after 9,

friday night.

This beat up cadillac drove past us twice in a matter of a minute, that's when I asked my gf to hold the pizza for me(In hindsight, I think it was a good move, to have both hands

availible). When the car came around the third time the windows were down. The 'gentlemen' (4 of them) inside started to accost me about the pizza, 'implying' that I should give

them some. They seemed drunk, they had that air of 'tough guy-ness' and a bit of a slurr here and there, I clearly remember my first impression being 'rowdy tough-guy drunks'. At

this point I had already positioned myself between my GF and the slowly moving car, I told them to get outta here or I would call the cops, as we continued to walk towards my apt.

(Told them I already had their license plate number, which was a bluff).

They started accosting my GF through the window, saying rude stuff that I wont repeat, and asking her what she was doing with a 'narc'. They were looking at her in an inappropriate

way, to put it politley. (Can you see rape in a mans eyes? I'm not sure but I definatly had that sensation crawling over me, with the way they were looking at her.) I used some colorful

language and told them to 'F--- OFF NOW' and once again 'I'm calling the cops'. That's when I pulled my cell phone from my pocket. Before I had the phone flipped open the two in

the back seat jumped out from both sides.

Now, I haven't taken very many self defense courses, but my instincts took over. (please keep in mind, this whole incident spanned MAYBE three minutes from the time the car first

drove past, it all happened very fast.)

I Threw my cell phone at the closest guy and drew a sub-compact handgun, I shouted "GET OUT OF HERE OR YOUR DEAD F---ERS" (probably not the best thing to say, but at the

time, my mind was reacting as best as it could)

The first guy did an almost INSTANT double take, the second he spun I was lined up on #2, he hand't even made it around the back of the car yet, so I was looking at the upper half

of his profile (big guy, way bigger than me). He saw my gun, looked me in the eyes, it was only for an instant but I could swear he was trying to determin if I was serious. I have a very

vivid memory of the moment, I think it's because I had a human being in my sight picture, with my finger on the trigger (DA pull)

Well after that second of staring he got back in the car. They left with a burn out (more like a tire chirp, but it felt like a burn out at the moment) and a bunch of profanities.

I didn't call the cops, I KNOW I should have, but at that moment, I was 4 blocks from my apt, and all I wanted to do was get the gf home. Not stand out side with her in the dark waiting

for the PD to show.

We didn't eat the pizza, both of us had lost our appitites and for me, the pizza was a reminder on the now fading adreneline that had previously been pumping through my veins. I

felt kind of sick, and was shaky, but also felt relief in a fashion. I had also managed to break my cell phone, after it had hit the guy it landed on the pavement. I didn't even remeber I

had thrown it until later that night when I was looking for it. (found it the next morning in the road, crunched pretty good)

I have not told this story anywhere else on the net, mostly because thinking about it gets me worked up, and puts me in a depressed kind of mood. I thought if it were worth posting,

it would be here, where a wider audeince range can take in the information, and maybe 'see the light' when it comes to handguns being used STOP violent encounters before they

start.

Could I have fought them off unarmed or with an improvised weapon? I imagine it's possible, As a kid I was in my 'fair share' of fights, but I don't think it would have ended well, (4

to 2, all of them males, and bigger than my 155 pound 6' self). I'm just glad my gf is safe, I don't want anything to ever happen to her, thinking about the way they looked at and

talked to her makes me sick, and angry. Thinking about what could have happend is nausiating.

Well that's it, I hope there is some inherent value in this story for someone out there, as it wasn't easy for me to write.

[spin]

10. Very interesting story...

Of course the anti-gun faction will call it anecdotal and therefore worthless.

However, I believe that your story is true because you mention the aftereffects of adrenaline rush, "We didn't eat the pizza, both of us had lost our appitites and for me, the pizza was a reminder on the now fading adreneline that had previously been pumping through my veins. I felt kind of sick, and was shaky, but also felt relief in a fashion."

Your chance of taking on four guys in a fight and winning is fairly slim, even with martial arts training. I know that it happens all the time in the movies, but real life is different. I not sure if the colorful language you mentioned added fuel to the fire or not. I like the quiet, respectful and polite but firm approach.

Your story illustrates the point that often if the victim has a firearm and displays it in a confident manner, the incident ends peacefully.

It's ALWAYS a good idea to call the police if you have to pull your weapon. The guys may leave the scene and call the police saying that you had a handgun and threatened them with it. Chances are, the cops would have believed you and your girl friend as cops aren't stupid. Still, if you call, it makes you look better.

That most important thing is that the incident ended without you or your girlfriend being injured. Therefore, you handled the situation extremely well. A definite positive is that you didn't have to fire your weapon and possibly injure or kill one of the attackers. Actually shooting an attacker can be a real pain in the ass, legally, financially and psychologically.

If you really trust your girlfriend, you might consider teaching her how to shoot and getting her a concealed carry permit. Two people with access to concealed weapons always trumps one.

[SsevenN]

14. Thanks for the advice..

Actually, my GF does carry now, either under the seat in her car, or in her gigantic purse... I had taken her shooting pretty often before this event, we mostly just did bullseye shooting and soda can punching.


I had been trying to get her interested in defensive pistol shooting previously. (I didn't want to force her out of her comfort zone.)

Now she does IDPA style defensive draw/shoots and is becomming very proficient with her Kahr (CW9)

I'm very proud of her abilitys now, she has an air of confidence around her.

[spin]

15. Excellent. Hopefully you both will never have another bad incident...

but if you do, you'll be better prepared.

[spin]

11. K&R, interesting topic...

I fortunately have no stories to add to the thread.

Still, there are lessons to be learned from the responses.

[Israfel4]

13. Happened to me a few years ago

I was in my truck, first in line, waiting for the light to turn green so I could turn left when all of a sudden some beat up piece of crap multi-colored(white,red,green,black???) convertible mustang with its front bumper dangling stopped right in front of me like this:


-/|


The dash is my truck
forward slash is his mustang showing how he stopped in front of me
vertical line is the intersection


He exited out of his vehicle yelling and screaming and cursing saying he was going to beat me up, send me to the hospital etc... when I made a motion like I was going for something next to me, when in reality I DIDN'T have a gun I just pretended like I was going for one or for something and said very loudly "DON'T EVEN TRY IT!!!!!". By that time he was about 6'-9' away from my door, window was down as it was pretty cool out, and I was STILL wearing my seatbelt, when he did a complete and total behavior/attitude change made a 180 degree turnaround, got back into his car and left.

I had nowhere to go, a sharp "v" sloping median to my left, traffic speeding by on my right, his car in front, vehicles in back, window down and TRAPPED by the seatbelt. In the fight or flight sense, the flight option was not there and the fight option sucked since I was already at a disadvantage/3 steps behind in the action department. Fortunately he left.

To this day I have no idea why he singled me out. Weird.

A month later, after some heavy reading and lots of discussions with friends and numerous trips to gun shops, I picked up my first handgun, an HK USP 9mm. :D

As soon as the FFL dealer handed her to me in the case I knew I had just accepted a HUGE responsibility by owning her. Every time I squeeze/pull her trigger I know that I am responsible where the bullets end up at, not the gun maker, not the ammo maker, not the FFL dealer, not the distributer, not anyone but ME.

[Katya Mullethov]

16. A few

Most notably ..... I had at least 8 nice young men with enormous pants all come around the corner of a convenience store as I was exiting my truck (Midnightish in Arlington Tx and they were waiting) . They pounded on the hood/door and yelled what were apparently intimidating obsecenities as they split up and began to approach from both sides . I leaned forward and produced a shotgun only to find myself completely alone .

The enormous pants did cause some difficulties in their egress , but they did "endeavor to persevere" . If they were able to run normally they might have had a chance at swarming me before I could get to a firearm , but it's always style before function with some guys .

[Treo]

17. That would have been fun to watch

on the store's security tape.

[slackmaster]

18. Only once

And that was with a knife and a big wrench.

[Euromutt]

21. I've not had to display a firearm, but I've come close to using it

On a loose dog a couple of streets over. I suspect the dog would been unimpressed by being shown the firearm.

I've told this story before but maybe six, seven months ago, my son (then 2, almost 3) and I were out exploring the neighborhood just after dusk, and we were confronted by a rather menacing dog that apparently had decided that the entire street was its turf. For context, my city is a "dog control zone," i.e. it's illegal to have a dog off-leash off your property, but the street we were on was only incorporated a year or two before, which also tells we're on the edge of town, and we don't get the local PD patrolling very often.

Now, I'm no expert on dogs, but I volunteer at a wolf sanctuary, so I know something about Canis lupus. I figure I'll scoop up my kid and make myself look big, but my kid's already haring it back down the road, repeating "it's okay, it's okay" (which is what my wife and I would tell him when he'd been hurt or frightened, so I know he's scared at that moment). Now, I know to wolves anything that runs is prey, so I'm worried the dog will think that of my kid. So all I can do is interpose myself, making myself look as big and intimidating as I can, shine my flashlight in its eyes (it's maybe 50' away) and shout "Bad dog! Go home!" Not that I expect the mutt to comply; what I'm really doing is trying to attract the attention of people in the surrounding houses so that they can testify, in the event that end up shooting the dog, that I tried a non-violent approach first.

And yes, at this point, I've made the decision that if the dog makes a move for my child, I will shoot it. There's also a certain amount of indignation on my part; I've been annoyed since childhood by dogs who are too stupid to understand that the public thoroughfare is not their territory. But while this is merely an annoyance when the dog is fenced in, when the dog is on the street and menacing passers-by, it's become a distinct threat to public safety. But the dog doesn't advance, and I realize that if I have drawn people's attention, drawing a gun may lead to my needing to call 911 in case somebody's called in "a man with a gun," and I'll have to talk to a cop, etc. Who needs the hassle? So I compromise by drawing my pepper spray and keeping that trained on the dog while I back up to retrieve my kid.

It's not a display story, since I never so much as swept my jacket off my holster, but I do think it's an example of a gun owner showing restraint, rather than seizing on an excuse to cap a living creature. Mind you, if I see that dog again, I'm not making any guarantees.

[Xela]

23. Have not practiced "presentation"

But I have carried a concealed pistol in Condition 1 just outside my apartment (just outside our door, mind you), while my wife and I stood out there checking out something.

Xela

[armueller2001]

25. Wow,

Funny... I haven't seen any postings on this thread from anti gunners. I guess they'd prefer you and your loved ones get beaten, raped, and murdered.

[proteus_lives]

26. Not personally but my dad has.

He was working late at his business and when he came out of his office he discovered someone stealing computer equipment. He was carrying, he turned on the office lights and told the guy to get on the ground. Then he held him there until the cops came. (about 8 minutes. :eyes:)

Both my parents are long-time CCW holders and gun owners. I've learned well from them.

[BoWanZi]

27. Nope never needed to use a gun.

Never had an incident where I felt a gun was needed to protect myself.

Plenty of times where I felt safer because I had a gun on me at the time, but never felt the need to use one. I pray that I never ever have to pull a gun on another human in my entire lifetime.

[spin]

28. Welcome to DU (n/t)

[friendly_iconoclast]

29. Twice. Once with a gun, once with a multitool, of all things

No shots fired or injuries in either case. Fine by me...

[ProgressiveProfessor]

30. This is the one unquantifiable stat in the entire gun food fight

Pro gun people say it happens all the time, antis say is rarer than hens teeth.

When I was young I carried openly and shot people as required. Then again, I was in the military and in combat. Sort of goes with the turf.

When we retired, we bought a place out in the twigs I carry openly when outside the house at home for critters, especially in snake season. Revolver with a mix of rounds including shot, HP, and FMJ. I have used it regularly. However, this is an exceptional situation and I would not do it if I was living in the suburbs or city.

When I was having a problem with people coming on to my property and parking their RVs and trucks to ride ATVs or dirt bikes, I carried openly during the inevitable confrontations, especially when I was having them towed. Semi auto in a shoulder rig on top of my shirt. Never had to draw it. Stopped being a problem when I put up the mother of all security gates.

When carrying concealed I have never exposed the weapon to back someone down. Then again, I normally carry in the small of my back. Moved it to the front a couple of times in anticipation of trouble, but was able to extract without drawing a weapon.

[Treo]

31. Clarification of the term "defensive display"

When I say "defensive display" I'm not talking about brandishing. I'm talking about actually drawing the weapon in preparation to fire and having the bad guy take off